A History of Ancient Britain (BBC)

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Dormouse

Tenderfoot
Jul 15, 2010
96
0
UK
Just watched this programme on the BBC iPlayer.

As well as being a generally interesting show, there was a short 'bushcrafty' segment that might be of specific interest to the forum users.

The presenter spent 24 hours on the island of Coll with a flint knapper/experimental archaeologist having a go at some of the crafts of a mesolithic (sp?) hunter.

They made a skin shelter, antler harpoons a bowdrill fire etc.

Just a 'heads-up'.
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk

darrenleroy

Nomad
Jul 15, 2007
351
0
51
London
As I am finding increasingly with the BBC's output, the shows are more about images and mood than facts. I don't want to see endless shots of the presenter striding about the place taken from a camera mounted on a helicopter. I want facts, hard facts. The bushcraft section was a case in point. Too short, too unspecific. The presenter hinted at what life may have been like when he mentioned the smell of the skins. But that was as far as it went. If we really want to get inside the heads of our ancient ancestors a whole episode, if not the whole series, could have been dedicated to perhaps living the life – making shelter and clothing and tools and hunting for food. Bring in the experts to show us how it's done and relay the experience to the viewer. Sorry to bang on but this show has the potential to be so much better.
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
As I am finding increasingly with the BBC's output, the shows are more about images and mood than facts. I don't want to see endless shots of the presenter striding about the place taken from a camera mounted on a helicopter. I want facts, hard facts. The bushcraft section was a case in point. Too short, too unspecific. The presenter hinted at what life may have been like when he mentioned the smell of the skins. But that was as far as it went. If we really want to get inside the heads of our ancient ancestors a whole episode, if not the whole series, could have been dedicated to perhaps living the life – making shelter and clothing and tools and hunting for food. Bring in the experts to show us how it's done and relay the experience to the viewer. Sorry to bang on but this show has the potential to be so much better.

I didn't watch the show but this summary is why I don't have a TV and watch very little on iplayer. A friend in theatre lighting says if the lighting is good you should not see it. I think the same with camera work, editing etc. These folk should be in the background helping the message to come across but they have all become wrapped up in the celebrity ride. Everyone is trying to make their bit stand out with weird jiggly hand held camera looking up everyone's noses from the ground, editing with rapid changes of shot that don't let you relax and turn a documentary into an Indiana Jones chase scene. It's like a young band with everyone doing their solos at the same time.

Not for me, no thanks.
 
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pango

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
380
6
69
Fife
There are a number of tautologies in what you're saying, Darrenleroy, similar in perception to the myth that a sabbatical in Borneo will miraculously provide some epiphany in understanding "primitive" cultures, beliefs and life-styles. The sad reality is that, under scrutiny, they provide greater understanding of the motives of anthropologists/tourists/multi-national companies, etc. and the irreversible, immoral and often criminal damage interference can cause.

I do get what you're saying here but am dubious about "getting inside the heads of our ancient ancestors" by watching TV... Show me, don't tell me! To be fair, the producers must gauge a delicate balance between delivering valuable, informative content and populism, and beauty still lies in the eye of the beholder.

In the making of the series televised last year entitled A History of Scotland which was fronted by Jamie...ehhh, Tony Oliver, the foremost authorities in the field walked out with their hands up in fear of having their professional reputations sullied on the point that history began with book-keeping, and that of Scotland with the Roman invasion.

The intricate Pictish Floral Rods engraved on the walls of caves just a few miles down the coast from me, and on rocks and standing stones all over eastern Scotland, bear a striking resemblance to those far older feather-stick like engravings I've seen from Africa to Turkey, France and Spain. I refuse to accept that the artists who lovingly carved or painted effigies of the animals they saw every day or outlined their hand on a wall weren't recording history.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has a problem with the argument that raw hides were used for clothing and shelter building and whether there is any evidence to uphold this. If assumptions are to be made, then I prefer to assume that stinking hides would attract things wanting to rip your throat out during the night, not to mention the aromatic qualities not being in keeping with good hunting practice. I also feel safe in saying that all materials were at hand -fats, brain, tannins, ash, salt, etc-, along with the tools and knowledge to process hides.

We are gradually beginning to accept the evidence that seasonal processing was being practiced and that good places for particular foodstuffs were being exploited on a seasonal basis by Mesolithic Britons, and there is no evidence that behaviour didn't arrive here as part of the package. After all, what is it that makes us human if not our abilities to communicate and solve problems, calculate benefit and burden and plan for the future in attempting to avoid bad experiences of the past.

It's just unfortunate that we've retained our "particular group" mentality and live for tomorrow world-view.

Cheers,

Pango.

Nb; It's too early in the morning for this!
 
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Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Darn blasted interweb problems - I've been trying to watch it on I player since last night. The winds last weekend trashed our phone & broadband connection and it keeps dropping out - hence I've only seen 16 minutes of it in 2 minute bursts.

Determined to keep at it though.

Ogri the trog
 

Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,605
235
Birmingham
I sort of avoided this because of the presenter. While I really enjoyed the History Of Scotland, his bias did come though loud and clear.

Might check it out now.

Ref the hide question?

How did the Native Amercians deal with their hides?

I do often think we have a 'We know best, or more' attitude to the past.
 

mayfly

Life Member
May 25, 2005
690
1
Switzerland
While I really enjoyed the History Of Scotland, his bias did come though loud and clear.

I enjoyed it too, even the bias. The view that Scotland was a barbaric nowheresville before the Union brought order, and that the Scots actually quite liked being sorted out - and crucially benefited from it enormously - is an interesting angle (not that I necessarily agree with it). I am very much enjoying this series too based on episode one.
 
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Dormouse

Tenderfoot
Jul 15, 2010
96
0
UK
Although I very much enjoyed this programme as a whole, I did find myself getting a little irritated by Neil Oliver.

In his enthusiasm he does have a tendency to over-romanticise without apparent evidence - I'm referring to his assumptions behind ancient peoples' motivations and so on. He may have been right for all I know, but if there is known evidence it isn't mentioned.

I was also a little surprised that Cheddar Man got such brief coverage when there is somewhat more known about him than other ancient peoples' remains.

Still, overall a series to follow I think.
 

darrenleroy

Nomad
Jul 15, 2007
351
0
51
London
Although I very much enjoyed this programme as a whole, I did find myself getting a little irritated by Neil Oliver.

In his enthusiasm he does have a tendency to over-romanticise without apparent evidence - I'm referring to his assumptions behind ancient peoples' motivations and so on. He may have been right for all I know, but if there is known evidence it isn't mentioned.

I was also a little surprised that Cheddar Man got such brief coverage when there is somewhat more known about him than other ancient peoples' remains.

Still, overall a series to follow I think.

I was hoping Cheddar Man would have received more coverage as well and that Oliver would have mentioned that his mitochondrial DNA was the same as a villager from Cheddar around 9000 years later. This point could then have served to show how close some indigenous Britons are genetically to our ancestors. A well known point but worth mentioning in the show all the same.
 

darrenleroy

Nomad
Jul 15, 2007
351
0
51
London
There are a number of tautologies in what you're saying, Darrenleroy, similar in perception to the myth that a sabbatical in Borneo will miraculously provide some epiphany in understanding "primitive" cultures, beliefs and life-styles. The sad reality is that, under scrutiny, they provide greater understanding of the motives of anthropologists/tourists/multi-national companies, etc. and the irreversible, immoral and often criminal damage interference can cause.

I do get what you're saying here but am dubious about "getting inside the heads of our ancient ancestors" by watching TV... Show me, don't tell me! To be fair, the producers must gauge a delicate balance between delivering valuable, informative content and populism, and beauty still lies in the eye of the beholder.

In the making of the series televised last year entitled A History of Scotland which was fronted by Jamie...ehhh, Tony Oliver, the foremost authorities in the field walked out with their hands up in fear of having their professional reputations sullied on the point that history began with book-keeping, and that of Scotland with the Roman invasion.

The intricate Pictish Floral Rods engraved on the walls of caves just a few miles down the coast from me, and on rocks and standing stones all over eastern Scotland, bear a striking resemblance to those far older feather-stick like engravings I've seen from Africa to Turkey, France and Spain. I refuse to accept that the artists who lovingly carved or painted effigies of the animals they saw every day or outlined their hand on a wall weren't recording history.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has a problem with the argument that raw hides were used for clothing and shelter building and whether there is any evidence to uphold this. If assumptions are to be made, then I prefer to assume that stinking hides would attract things wanting to rip your throat out during the night, not to mention the aromatic qualities not being in keeping with good hunting practice. I also feel safe in saying that all materials were at hand -fats, brain, tannins, ash, salt, etc-, along with the tools and knowledge to process hides.

We are gradually beginning to accept the evidence that seasonal processing was being practiced and that good places for particular foodstuffs were being exploited on a seasonal basis by Mesolithic Britons, and there is no evidence that behaviour didn't arrive here as part of the package. After all, what is it that makes us human if not our abilities to communicate and solve problems, calculate benefit and burden and plan for the future in attempting to avoid bad experiences of the past.

It's just unfortunate that we've retained our "particular group" mentality and live for tomorrow world-view.

Cheers,

Pango.

Nb; It's too early in the morning for this!

I can't say for sure whether skins used for waterproofing buildings were raw hide or not. I would take your advice on that topic as from your post you seem to be knowledgeable about this area of archaeology,

By getting inside the heads of our ancestors I meant that I hoped to see more experimental archaeologists and primitive living experts on the programme with more time devoted to the practical day-to-day lives they may have led. I think the producers missed a trick here. Instead we get Oliver striding around the countryside, his hair blowing in the wind. Where's Jacob Bronowski when we need him? (Dead).
 

Trev

Nomad
Mar 4, 2010
313
1
Northwich Cheshire
I don't think anyone missed a trick . I think they hit the target audience spot on . You have to remember that in the 70's and early 80's they made some very specific programs ( to clarify , there was no choice but TV and the audiences were HUGE ) and they were never repeated . Most people nowadays turn on the TV in order to turn off and get there substance from books and internet .
All the TV program is for is to provide a hook in the hope that people will look further .
Cheers , Trev .
 

pango

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
380
6
69
Fife
I would take your advice on that topic as from your post you seem to be knowledgeable about this area of archaeology...
I actually found that quite funny mate, as the Regional Archaeology Dept (ie, Planning Dept) fu fu fu...fob me off every time I annoy them with a GR of a ring-ditch, possible cursus or recumbent/dumped standing stone in the woods beside the -wait for it- Stannin Stane Road; a piece of Roe antler embedded in shell midden beside a fire-hearth, which had been exposed on an eroding slope about 50 feet away from a cave containing ancient rock-art; a very conspicuous looking piece of limestone (possibly metamorphic, as it has a sharp "ring" when tapped ???) taken from arms-length down a rabbit burrow, along with a handful of charcoal, 10 yards from a beautiful spiral-like engraving which is surrounded by a hundred cup-marks. The said piece fits the hand beautifully, as do curved edges snuggle into the upper thigh. The one oblique end suits a rubbing motion and the other tapered, straight end is worn and suits a scraping motion -perfect for working materials on the thigh when sitting or for scraping on a hard surface:
I have no idea what it takes to get them off their backsides, but they certainly don't appear to like being disturbed by the simple minded Great Unwashed!

Instead we get Oliver striding around the countryside, his hair blowing in the wind.
I won't comment on that for fear of accusations of being Hairist!
It's always a handy trick to be able to mentally erase a presenter out of the picture and concentrate on content/context, otherwise you'd be dogged by images of Baldric being kneed in the nuts whilst eating a raw turnip... and that other Tony is so Baldric-like!
 

Manacles

Settler
Jan 27, 2011
596
0
No longer active on BCUK
I saw the broadcast. Highly recommended, see it on iplayer if you can. The last 15 minutes - the bushceafty bit - is a real treat, but the whole programme is excellent.

Seconded, the part with John Lord is excellent. Fills a cultural desert as Bruce Parry's arctic has ended and Ray Mears' Northern Widerness rerun seems to have disappeared this week..
 

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