Anyway........How about getting back to the discussion about the marvels of the Temple. Isn't the craft and skill fantastic? Wish I could produce that level of workmanship.
Alan
Alan
13,000 Year old temple,
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It is indeed for the time period it is in. We were supposed to be doodling in caves around then. The people who built it attached a lot of significance to it, whatever its purpose.
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
It would be really interesting if the stone carving could be replicated with what we know of stone age tools, or if other more novel tools were used in this instance. I believe you can only find these things out by doing it.
I'll look to see it if i can find a more acedemic article on the site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/23/archaeology.turkey
http://www.dainst.org/index_642_en.html
Do you know I have no idea what the current Christian position is on this
Varies by church I guess?
As stated though - a stunning bit of work and something to marvel at
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Don't ask me either, I am a pagan. I have a freind that is puritan evangelist, but was brought up welsh free church. She follows a literal interpretation of the bible. We have long chats where we iron out the either others misconceptions. She doesn't beat he kids with a wooden spoon and i don't make blood sacrifices to baalDo you know I have no idea what the current Christian position is on this
Varies by church I guess?
. Go back 300 years we would both burned to stake.
I am late to this thread....
OK - I am not totally sold on creationalist or evolutionist ideas.....
If the scientists argue that it could not all be done in 6 days are they basing the argument on a day being 24 hours (as we know it, based on Earths rotation)?
How fast was the Earth rotating when God did all this work...it could have been REAL slow and then he speeded it all up on Saturday night.....
If the Big Bang theory is right then who made the nothing, that then exploded, actually explode?
If God is imaginary, who gave us our imagination?
If evolution works, is it the only thing in Britain that does?
Am I totally raving or do both enolution and creationalism both have their merits?
One thing is for sure, only those who are right in their belife in an Afterlife will be able to say "I told you so!" if those who state "there is no afterlife" are right they will never get that satisfaction......
The carvings are great, no matter what!
(none of the above is meant to offend anyone - I have no axe to grind as my convictions include the right of everyone to hold their own convictions ( even if I know they are wrong!), personally I am an independant Spiritualist....)
OK - I am not totally sold on creationalist or evolutionist ideas.....
If the scientists argue that it could not all be done in 6 days are they basing the argument on a day being 24 hours (as we know it, based on Earths rotation)?
How fast was the Earth rotating when God did all this work...it could have been REAL slow and then he speeded it all up on Saturday night.....
If the Big Bang theory is right then who made the nothing, that then exploded, actually explode?
If God is imaginary, who gave us our imagination?
If evolution works, is it the only thing in Britain that does?
Am I totally raving or do both enolution and creationalism both have their merits?
One thing is for sure, only those who are right in their belife in an Afterlife will be able to say "I told you so!" if those who state "there is no afterlife" are right they will never get that satisfaction......
The carvings are great, no matter what!
(none of the above is meant to offend anyone - I have no axe to grind as my convictions include the right of everyone to hold their own convictions ( even if I know they are wrong!), personally I am an independant Spiritualist....)
The maximum length of a day at the time of biblical creation is 930 years, according to the bible that Adam died aged 930, we know that Adam was born/created on day six and was expelled after Gods day of rest (the seventh day).
Adam live in the wilderness for eight hundred years (130 years after his son Seth)
The carvings are wonderful and why wouldn't they be?
Modern man seems to have the arrogance to assume that earlier (very much earlier) human beings weren't as clever or as skilled as we are.
Modern man seems to have the arrogance to assume that earlier (very much earlier) human beings weren't as clever or as skilled as we are.
The carvings are wonderful and why wouldn't they be?
Modern man seems to have the arrogance to assume that earlier (very much earlier) human beings weren't as clever or as skilled as we are.
We seem to think that we could not do such works, in modern times. Which is rubbish, given time, training, man power, I doubt there is a single thing the ancients have made, that we could not replicate using tradition materials and methods.
No magic required , no space ships, no zombie helper either :yelrotflm
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
The carvings are wonderful and why wouldn't they be?
Modern man seems to have the arrogance to assume that earlier (very much earlier) human beings weren't as clever or as skilled as we are.
Could a modern stone mason replicate the same art with stone age tools?
I would love to know what tools have been found. Reading the better researched articles it appears the first domesticated wheat was found in the same area. You would think that agriculture would come before building an intricut settlement such as this but appears to be the other way round. Thinking of the british isles flax retting pools in northern ireland and southern scotland predate stone buildings, (the article I read that from had some dispute and I can't find it again).
We also seem to think that they spend a hundred years bulding a huge building only to carve fairy tales and imaginative works into it, We also think that everyone was tripping for thousands of years.
Ditto, there was a noticeable ear twitch when norse gods were mentioned
If memory serves me there are quite a few evolutionist scientists who consider it the mechanism of God's creation. Interestingly the Big Bang theory was proposed by Georges Lamaitre, a Roman Catholic priest. Devout christians are not always as far from science as a lot of people think! I always took the "days" to refer to stages, or maybe even ages, and the true meaning was either lost in translation or through retelling before it even was translated.
Pete
Agriculture developed with the buildings, they had to to feed the people who went/worked there when natural foodstuffs began to be insufficient.
Not really, he proposed the "Expanding universe" from the cosmic egg at the moment of creation
The big bang was a term of derision, first used by Hoyle, to lampoon the theory
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
and it has to have a ritual purpose. When i was doing the familys' clothes for the dark ages event, I was reconstructing clothes that were either found in graves or as discarded waste. Looking on a 1000 years from now would the re-enactors be wearing wedding dresses, football kits and kit that paris hilton wore, because that what the evidence points to. Don't forgot the red and white polyester nylon hats with bells on. Of course they would be watching football in churches, and they would build en-actors villages with concrete and solar panels, and decorate their gardens with beer cans and plastic bags, because that's what we do isn't it. Shopping for tonnes of stuff we don't need must of had a ritual significance because surely it doesn't make sense other wise
Well close enough isn't it?
Also strange that Hawkins now proves this to be the case as well.
Aaah the stunning evidence that all people on the planet are indeed descended from a single female?
The idea that the population could have fallen so low, or that one mutation could have been so spectacularly advantageous that all human life descends from a single female are...technically speaking.....hokum. And indeed at odds with other theories that state that a certain size of gene pool is necessary for a species to survive and thrive.
The idea of all life originating from a single woman was laughed at by "science", until of course science proved that it happened,
Oops.
you have totally got the classic wrong end of the stick.
Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) can be used as a tool to trace clear paths through the fossil record as it is inherited from the martiarchal line only, all variation is by mutation and not by reproduction.
the important part of the hypothesis to this discussion is that analysis of mtDNA by Douglas Wallace at Emory University and Allan Wilson at Berkley show that human mtDNA can be traced back to a female 150000 years ago in Africa. Meaning that a civilisation of 13000 years old isn't especially surprising in that part of the world. Study of mtDNA from all populations in the world show a huge similarity, hinting at a common ancestor.
The female in question would have come from a population of around 10000 by the way - a reasonable gene pool.
I have never had any clue as to the spark that started life. I would like to believe in abiogenesis but it does seem like a hell of a leap. Life from other planets seems even bigger.
my tuppence.
Rob
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