Wild fires - Survival Skills.

[Falstaff]

There is a major difference between 5 P's for a residential situation, and 5P's for temporary situations such as out walking or camping. But both need to be considered well in advance and early steps made.

I've been in the residential situation without the 5 P's in place and found it very very difficult. (The Swinley Forest fire). There are so many different factors and decisions to be made in such a potentially short space of time that it can be overwhelming. Then folk freeze and hope it will pass/be ok.
In my case I was lucky.
(Had we and did we, make plans - No! Total brain fart....)

Before going on a trip, it is a good idea to look at the weather pattern maps and visualise how weather direction and changes relate to your proposed trip and duration. You will then not be surprised at the change when they happen, or to your potential exit routes. (for any obvious risks, not just fire.) I did this even for the Bushmoot.

"Ducking under" a fire in a river or stream is not a good idea, fire and smoke can easily jump these and the simple lack of oxygen and radiant heat easily kill. Get to the other side and get gone!
I'm not a fan of the bandanna mask, unless fairly air-tight around the mouth and nose, they do not stop dust and ash inhalation (tried it loads of times, all failed, I'm a sweep remember). The building site paper masks are light, easily packable, not perfect but do a better job.

If you are residential and travel compromised, by infirmity or simply kids, having a pre-arranged fall back location, travel plan, and some pre-placement of kit and recovery records is a good idea.
Depending upon the level of risk you might think about going early or doing a practice run to iron out kinks. ( Make it a challenge game/race for the kids - how quickly can we get to Grannies?/ Uncle Tom?) Stroppy teenagers need to start learning the facts- if I die, the house burns down, or kick you out, what are you going to do? - make a plan! Then discuss it, -warning, you may not like the answers!

It also helps your fallback hosts to consider what they might need to accommodate you at short notice. I've been the fall back host once, a tragedy on New Years Eve of all times....

 

[Woody girl]

We have had a little rain overnight.
What a blessing!
Not enough, by any means, even though I left my dry washing on the line overnight as I forgot to bring it in, and it's now wet again, im very happy.
Let's hope this will dampen down the dry leaves and grass enough to make the prospect of fires a little less.
My wilting pumpkin looks quite perky this morning. It's still dry earth under the top few centimeters, but its a help if the temperature drops somewhat. I feel so exhausted and droopy with the heat now, just like my pumpkin!
Welcome rain and cooler temps. We so need this.

 

[Buckshot]

You're lucky. We didn't have enough rain to join the dots!

 

[Woody girl]

You're lucky. We didn't have enough rain to join the dots!

Well, it's all dried up now, back to square one. Spoke to the head of the national park this morning. Guess what? Not their responsibility, go talk to so and so on the local council.
So we have to ask the park for permission to put up solar panels, but its not their remit to speak to the council about fire hazards, and keep people safe.

Anyone got a spare wig? I don't have any hair left after tearing it out in frustration!

 

[Broch]

Getting back to the OP (which is too important a subject to dilute with moaning in my opinion), this topic has made me realize that my home fire action plan is way out of date - I produced it when we could quite reasonably escape through the Velux windows and lower ourselves to ground - now, 32 years later, I'd struggle to do so let alone the missus.

So, a quick question, what tools/technologies have people got to enable escape from upstairs windows?

I also need to to fix the front door - it's a very heavy oak plank door about 5' wide. Only I can open it! That means there's only one practical door escape from the Barn, and that's through the kitchen.

And finally (for now) the four fire alarms are all 30+ years old - I need to change them!!

 

[HorseGuy]

So, a quick question, what tools/technologies have people got to enable escape from upstairs windows?

Modern double glazing can be very difficult to smash so you may want to consider keeping a glass breaker tool on the window sill in case of an emergency. Once the window is open/glass smashed hang out by your finger tips and dangle down to get you feet as close to the ground as possible. Keep you legs and feet together when you drop. As soon as your feet hit the floor bend you knees and legs to attempt to absorb as much force as possible and roll to one side once your knees and legs are fully bent.

It’s not perfect and there’s still a high chance of breaking an ankle or receiving other injuries but I was told by my dad when I was a kid that this is the safest way to 'jump' out of a high window if there's a house fie and the exit is blocked.

There are two common types of glass breaking tool. One is a special hammer with a hard sharp point rather than a flat head like a normal hammer. The other is the 'push' type which automatically preloads a spring when pushed into the glass and then fires a hard sharp point out to smash the glass for you.

 

[Broch]

Modern double glazing is very difficult to break so you may want to consider keeping a glass breaker tool on the window sill in case of an emergency. Once the window is open/glass smashed hang out of the window by your finger tips and dangle down to get as close to the ground as possible. Keep you legs and feet together when you drop. As soon as your feet hit the floor bend you knees and legs to attempt to absorb as much force as possible and roll to one side once your knees and leg are fully bent.

It’s not perfect and there’s still a high chance of breaking an ankle or receiving other injuries but I was told by my dad when I was a kid that is the safest way to ‘jump’ out of a high window if there is a house fie and the exit is blocked.

There are two common types of glass breaking tool. One is a special hammer with a hard sharp point rather than a flat head like a normal hammer. The other is the 'push' type which automatically preloads a spring when pushed into the glass and then fires a hard sharp point out to smash the glass for you.

Yeh, that was always the plan but a) they're Velux windows so on a sloping roof, b) at our age the chances of not doing serious damage when we drop is zero, c) the missus would not be able climb up to the windows easily; I need some sort of steps.

I think I need some sort of ladder to go down too!

 

[HorseGuy]

Yeh, that was always the plan but a) they're Velux windows so on a sloping roof, b) at our age the chances of not doing serious damage when we drop is zero, c) the missus would not be able climb up to the windows easily; I need some sort of steps.

That's tricky then. Maybe move your bedroom to another room or downstairs?

 

[lou1661]

@Broch detection is your friend, minimum of detectors on your escape route, at least one on each floor. Ideally in other rooms too but don’t put smoke detection in kitchens (you can get heat detectors for that) That “should” give enough early warning to walk down the stairs and out your door. So long as all the doors onto that route are closed during sleeping hours I’m pretty sure you can get battery operated detectors that link, one goes off all go off. Are the Velux windows the only other access to the top floor?
Hang and drop is the last resort, not your primary method of evacuation. It’s always good to understand and practice your evacuation route, I wonder how many people ever practice hang and drop?
Without knowing the specifics of your property location, layout and potential hazards it is difficult to have specific advice. If you want me to clarify anything in the above send me a PM

Cheers
Louis.

 

[Broch]

Thanks @lou1661, I've carried out a quick re-evaluation (I do enjoy these tasks ). There is one window in one bedroom at the end of the barn that opens nearly to the floor - it's actually in the only stone wall. Hanging from the windowsill our feet would only be about 2' from the ground . It has a railing on the inside that I could attach one of the escape ladders to as I suspect the missus would not find it easy to hang from even that window.

So, as long as we have enough warning, as you suggest, to make sure we can get past the stairs to that bedroom, we have an escape route. My first and highest priority task is to review what's available for fire/heat detection.

I've spent a lot of time improving our water and electricity resilience and let this (an one or two other things) slip in my planning!

 

[lou1661]

Thanks @lou1661, I've carried out a quick re-evaluation (I do enjoy these tasks ). There is one window in one bedroom at the end of the barn that opens nearly to the floor - it's actually in the only stone wall. Hanging from the windowsill our feet would only be about 2' from the ground . It has a railing on the inside that I could attach one of the escape ladders to as I suspect the missus would not find it easy to hang from even that window.

So, as long as we have enough warning, as you suggest, to make sure we can get past the stairs to that bedroom, we have an escape route. My first and highest priority task is to review what's available for fire/heat detection.

I've spent a lot of time improving our water and electricity resilience and let this (a one or two other things) slip in my planning!

@Broch if that window is straightforward to access from the ground, that would probably be a good spot to head for if heading downstairs was not an option, that with a means to communicate which unless you still have the old style PSTN telephone that was hard wired into the wall. Not using a 3 pin plug would have to be a mobile to pass your location in the building to the FRS if you are remote, tricky to find it is worth having a building name or easy to locate waypoint on the roadside. The third Beech tree after a pair of field maple is tricky to spot sometimes!
Worth having a look Here (your profile says mid Wales so I guessed) we plan and practice for all sorts of scenarios, sometimes not remembering to include the ones needed at home.

 

[Pattree]

if you are remote, tricky to find it is worth having a building name or easy to locate waypoint on the roadside. The third Beech tree after a pair of field maple is tricky to spot sometimes!

Banging the old drum again

W3W will get any emergency vehicle to were you are.

I have my W3W written next to my house name on the gate and by the front door.

If you haven’t got it - get it.

(The free version. They are monetising any features beyond the basic.)

 

[TLM]

Some 25 years ago here local councils started to give every building used for living an address. So by now practically every house has a unique address: county, road, number/letter. Houses with no road access can be identified by ground lot number or WGS84 coordinates. All in all the system seems to work fairly well though the implementation took its time.

 

[MrEd]

If family members are of restricted mobility why are they in that situation? They wouldn’t live at the top of a high rise and they shouldn’t be living in a flood or fire risk zone. I realise that we don’t always have a choice but it must surely be a consideration. There should be a plan.

Not sure what you mean by this, are you saying disabled people should not live in high rise buildings, fire risk zones or flood risk zones so that able bodied people shouldn’t have to worry about helping them if there is a fire etc?

Based on that, disabled people should only be allowed to live in completely urban areas and on the lower floors of buildings only?

Really??

 

[Pattree]

No.

 

[Falstaff]

I'm glad that Broch brought this back to the original OP issue, and recognition of needing to update plans, this is the benefit of this forum. I have to use these exits quite often!
I appreciate Horseguy's advice, but all modern double glazed windows over X size are now toughened glass, and the stupid little toffee hammers they sell as glass breakers ain't going to do it, especially as we get older and weaker. Hanging on broken glass in frames by bare hands will end in tears, and maybe falling due to the pain.
However, keep a key next to the window to unlock it, and you can buy escape ladders in a box that either hook over the frame or are securely ready-fixed to the wall below the opening. They are largely tip-out and unroll designs. Prices vs life are quite reasonable!

If, and only if, one can actually step up or get up high enough to get over the window frame. A big if, even if nimble.
A small decorative footlocker box, stable stool or blanket box left there are options for most windows on walls. Failing that, replace the window entirely with a full height glass balcony door and Juliette balcony. (To await ladder rescue)

Veluxes are a different problem and a right pain to get out of. Envisaged and approved as fire exits for attic conversions etc, even the bottom edge of them is usually so high that a step ladder is needed. The same escape ladder in a box works fine, adjusted for height of course. Getting up, out and on to it, from a usually very wobbly stepladder, is hairy. Worse in the rain and the dark.

Great fun my job, that I should so often have to do this, to install a chimney or sweep a roof fan, and re-fit the roof tiles around it!

 

[MrEd]

No.

What are you saying then? I don’t understand your post, perhaps you could elaborate what you mean?

 

[Falstaff]

What are you saying then? I don’t understand your post, perhaps you could elaborate what you mean?

Ha Ha! You gave an example and asked him if that was what he meant, and the answer was No, that was not what he meant. He just didn't elaborate!
Why are they in that situation - usually because they have no other choice, and are not able to relocate purely to be in a safer position. The huge swirl of circumstances are such that many folk are effectively trapped in locations and circumstances irrespective of capacity and changes over time. (E.g Broche's recognition.)

Pattree questions whether they (or others on their behalf) have considered the life threatening risks given their personal limitations and handicaps, and relocated or, at least made a serious contingency plan.

I think the answer is for most folk, No, they have not. Like writing wills or buying funeral plans, the human mind prefers not to look that one in the face. In the case of Social Services placements they definitely do not want to, and could not do so.
A nightmare scenario, they simply do not have any form of property resources or capacity to manage or consider. At best all they can do is ensure some form of compliant fire regulation is in place.

 

[lou1661]

A bit from a wildfire preparedness aide memoir published in Oregon

 

[Pattree]

A survival plan isn’t really complete until the potential victims have used it.

When my children were still living with us I did throw a mattress out of a bedroom window, climb out into the roof of a bay window and jump down onto it.

@Broch ‘s talk of revising plans made me realise that neither of us two remaining have any alternative to the single set of stairs. Nothing we can sensibly do other than the multiple alarms in each room with the main ones interconnected. Thanks for making me think.

Hardly a wildfire but parts of my garden could easily catch fire right now.