Ventile Poncho

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Is £110 too much?


  • Total voters
    162

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
Right - we have at least 10 who are interested. The more the merrier though and maybe we'll pick up more when more details and testing/pictures come through.

I have been thinking long and hard about what I really would/would not like to see on the Poncho. I generally agree with all the comments so far - although I do not know what you do about not having a hood - except making it removable (like some Paramo hoods) - but I would think that this would impact on complexity and make sealing the hole a bit more problematic. But we will see what Dave says.

I am not fussed about attaching Poncho to other tarps really as it will be for personal use but I understand if you wish to have it compatible. I'd just not use it in that way very often so it isn't a 'must-have'.

Eye-lets are a things I have great dislike for. They create areas of great weakness when put under strain and I cannot forget the numerous nights in high winds that these damn things have pulled through the material. I am a big fan of various material loops at corners and edges etc - like the ones you see on Tatonka tarps - but the same applies for the corners - good reinforcement patches are necessary. I am also aware that poppers to make it compatible with NATO tarps might also need some form of reinforcement which could add to weight and complexity.

For me other signficant things is that it is functional enough a) to sleep under and b) cover me and a Bergen when on the move c) but not so big so I fall over it all the time!

Price was always going to an issue with Ventile. It just shows the contrast in Ponchos/Tarps that are made of cheaper stuff. Yes you can get stuff for £10-£30. But I am taking the view that this piece will take the place of a jacket, a shelter and a rucksack cover - made of Ventile - all for £110 inc P&P.

Anyway...I'll drop Dave at Hilltrek a line and see if he can take our most important comments on board, write up a quick spec that we all agree on and then he can make a prototype that we can get a one or more of us to test. Agreed?
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
I would be very interested in testing a prototype for you. I use ponchos to camp quite often.

Norwegian_evening.jpg


Re. the hood. Providing the collar is taller than half the distance across the neck hole and has a drawstring it should seal well enough.

I was planning one that could fold or roll down to be out of the way while wearing it. I suppose a roll down hood would be just as good. I'm not sure it needs to be double thickness.

I don't think nato compatibility is an issue. But if tabs are used in place of eyelets they need to be something that will not snag on foliage as you move. The Tatonka type are good.
 

basha

Forager
Aug 9, 2006
242
1
64
kent
For my use, I doubt I would need it to be compatible with a Nato poncho..I agree that loops in reinforced corners would be preferable to eyelets.
I don't think I'd need a removable hood; If I needed to put a poncho on it would be pretty foul weather and I think the hood would be up. However apart from possible sealing problems in tarp mode, a removable hood may not be a disadvantage.
If the studs along the side were not NATO compatible, I assume it would still be able to be used it as a bivvi bag?
It may be worth considering the overall size; it may not cost any more to make it a few inches bigger one way or another (depending on the width of material they are using), but that extra size may prove useful in use, particularly in tarp mode.
 

oetzi

Settler
Apr 25, 2005
813
2
64
below Frankenstein castle
Nato compatibility is not neccessary
Eyelets or Loops, whatever the majority prefers
A simple and large enough hood is a necessity
I would like to see the rear about 50-80cm longer, to accomodate a larger pack without exposing the legs too much (it could be folded up and secured with press-studs)
I am definitly in (and would modify it to my individual needs anyway)
 

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
Hi all,

I have been pressing Dave at Hilltrek to come up with a spec as I am sure that we all want to move on this and get something we can look at and test - hopefully before Christmas!!! :)

He has just got back to me as said this:

"Mark,
Can you please give us a week approx. We are pretty busy at the moment and
it is better for us to take time to get the details right before we go to press."

I hope that this is okay by everyone. I'll chase him in 7 days!!!

M
 

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
Someone may want to correct me on this, but I had a quick search on Ventile material retail prices; one company sells P80 Ventile at approx. £17 per sq. metre.
I estimate there must be around 4 sq. metres of fabric in a this poncho (including double hood and shoulders); so that would be around £68 just for the material if I were to buy it !!!!

I don't know why this is irking me a bit but alot of people are saying that £110 is too expensive. Does this mean that a) you feel that you cannot afford this or b) that you feel that this is too expensive for what it is?

My problem is that at £110 for a premium material product (that will last years) that will not delaminated, will not get get burn holes near a fire, is a 'silent' natural material, that is highly water-resistant - that will do as a tarp, jacket and will also cover your rucksack when on the move. Compare this price to ventile shirts or (eek) ventile jackets....then I think that it is excellent value for money. Especially considering it is a custom production run, with most of the cost in the materials let alone the labour costs

I agree that it is expensive but I don't necessarily agree that it is not great value for money - if it does what we all hope it will.

...had to offload that. Seeing that most people have voted that it is too expensive. For those who love ventile and use ponchos alot (for rain cover and sleeping under) may well aprreciate its worth. Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick. £110 is right at the top end of what I can afford. But I suspect it may be worth it in the long run???

:cussing:
 

CLEM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 10, 2004
2,433
439
Stourbridge
I don't know why this is irking me a bit but alot of people are saying that £110 is too expensive. Does this mean that a) you feel that you cannot afford this or b) that you feel that this is too expensive for what it is?

My problem is that at £110 for a premium material product (that will last years) that will not delaminated, will not get get burn holes near a fire, is a 'silent' natural material, that is highly water-resistant - that will do as a tarp, jacket and will also cover your rucksack when on the move. Compare this price to ventile shirts or (eek) ventile jackets....then I think that it is excellent value for money. Especially considering it is a custom production run, with most of the cost in the materials let alone the labour costs

I agree that it is expensive but I don't necessarily agree that it is not great value for money - if it does what we all hope it will.

...had to offload that. Seeing that most people have voted that it is too expensive. For those who love ventile and use ponchos alot (for rain cover and sleeping under) may well aprreciate its worth. Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick. £110 is right at the top end of what I can afford. But I suspect it may be worth it in the long run???

:cussing:
My sentiments exactly!
 

basha

Forager
Aug 9, 2006
242
1
64
kent
p.s. Basha - I am agreeing with you not having a go at you BTW !!

Don't worry littlebiglane, I read it as you intended.
This potential group buy must be a bit frustrating for you. If the prototype turns out to be good after a review, then no doubt a few people will change their minds and new interest will follow. Best of luck.
 

oetzi

Settler
Apr 25, 2005
813
2
64
below Frankenstein castle
I agree that it is expensive but I don't necessarily agree that it is not great value for money - if it does what we all hope it will.

...had to offload that. Seeing that most people have voted that it is too expensive. For those who love ventile and use ponchos alot (for rain cover and sleeping under) may well aprreciate its worth. Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick. £110 is right at the top end of what I can afford. But I suspect it may be worth it in the long run???

:cussing:

SIC!!!
Have alook at what you get for GBP 100,- these days.
At best some mass market product from the far east.
 

dtalbot

Full Member
Jan 7, 2004
616
6
59
Derbyshire
Love ventile, DIY my ventile smock cost just under half that using seconds ventile (still don't know what the fault was!). this will use a fair bit more material and I guess is using first quality so given the other costs involved in commercial production not an unreasonable price. But I voted too expensive as haven't got £110 spare.
 

JonnyP

Full Member
Oct 17, 2005
3,833
29
Cornwall...
I am still trying to get my head around this one....If I wear my poncho, it is because the weather is horrible and the poncho keeps me dry (ish). I am thinking if I wear a ventile poncho, when it gets soaked, (because of the horrible weather) it will weigh a ton and I will get damp under it...Also, if used as a tarp and it gets wet, you have then got to put on this heavy wet poncho when you get going again. I do however think it would be a good thing to wear around the fire, if it is raining...I don't go for the quietness of ventile either, my jacket is almost as noisey as my goretex with the swish of arm movement while walking...
I don't want to put people off buying one, I just don't see how it would benefit me...
Does sound like a good price though, its a lot of material....
 

Aragorn

Settler
Aug 20, 2006
880
2
50
Wrexham, North Wales
thanks for finding out about this, but a bit pricey for my pocket.

just wanted to clarify my post, this sounds like a great piece of kit that i would love to own, but i just don't have that much spare cash at the moment, i believe in buying good quality kit that is made to last, but being on a certain budget have to pick and chooose when and what kit i buy, hope that makes sence, don't feel people are being ungratefull, i admire anyone undertaking the group buys and i have benifited a lot from them in the past.
 

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
Right - I now have initial spec for the poncho. My first comment is what the weight guesstimate would be. Second would be - if it is not compatible with Nato poncho then studs are pointless. If I can have three volunteers for testing (once spec has been agreed - I suggest Wayland, Oetzi and one other).

Here is the email from Dave at Hilltrek.

"Here are the details of the Ventile poncho

Style: basis of the poncho is the NATO sample provided but adapted for
ventile fabric and to use standard Hilltrek components e.g. studs
Fabric: Single Ventile except where stated
Colour: olive green
Length: 210cm
Width: 150cm
Hood: attached double ventile
Shoulders: double ventile for 50cm
Studs(not compatible with studs on Nato garment) at intervals of 8.5"
Loops at 4 corners and centre ( 6off )

I hope that this is sufficiently clear.
We are very busy at the moment but we could target to have a sample for you
at the end of November.
Please let us know the feedback
Best Regards
Dave"

Over to you guys. Comments please...:)
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
I'm in agreement about the studs. Ties would work just as well and be easier to fix down the line.

I do wonder about the length being long enough to go over a pack. This is one area that many ponchos fall down on. You can't put a pack over a poncho easily so it has to go underneath which often leaves the back of your legs under covered.
 

oetzi

Settler
Apr 25, 2005
813
2
64
below Frankenstein castle
Yes, I would prefer ties, too.
About the lenght at the back, this is a perennial problem with standard ponchos and one of my biggest concern with them.
My suggestion would be to have the rear about 20-30" longer. This "flap" could double up inside and be fixed, for example, with three simple ties and loops.
If not in use, it wouldnt disturb the wearer. One can sit on this then doubled portion at camp and only if needed it would be let down and the side ties could be re-knotted accordingly. since one usually knows beforehand if the biggerpack will be used on the tour, this can be done at home while preparing.
Yes, it would make the poncho more expensive by using up more Ventile, but be worth it.
I will do this modification anyway with probably some coated Nylon or G-1000, if i cant get hold of a piece of Ventile.
What do you think?
 

basha

Forager
Aug 9, 2006
242
1
64
kent
The loops sound like a good idea.
The studs fitted to a NATO poncho enable it to be used as a bivvi bag. I think some means of securing/making it into this would be useful; studs/poppers seem the obvious choice, but even ties would do. As I mentioned before, NATO poncho compatability is not necessary for me.
My NATO poncho measures 1650mm wide, maybe the 1500mm width Dave is quoting maybe the maximum/optimum he can produce from the available ventile material. However it's potential for a bivvi bag may become a bit restricted.
My NATO poncho measures approx. 2020mm along the sides, increasing to 2200mm maximum along the centre-line. Dave quotes 2100mm length; Is this is cut square (i.e. 2100mm at sides and centre-line)?
I'm glad the project is still alive. Thanks for perservering with it.
 

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