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`If you think I am a Tengu...`

Discussion in 'Other Chatter' started by Tengu, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. sandsnakes

    sandsnakes Full Member

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    The calories in energy out principle does not apply to human nutriton. The law of thermo dynamics does not apply to the human endocrine system. It is not rocket science (which is simple by comparison) human weight gain involves the law of conservation, insulin, thyroid, liver and adrenal secretion.


    Its an endocrine issue and often partly genetic.

    S
     
    #41 sandsnakes, Sep 12, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  2. shaggystu

    shaggystu Full Member

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    any chance of a reference or two to support those statements? i know nothing about the human endocrine system (not even what it is), but i'm interested to learn about how the law(s?) of thermodynamics can be over-ruled by it

    cheers

    stuart
     
  3. Dannytsg

    Dannytsg Native

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    "You don't have to be fat to be un-fit" - a very good anecdote that it doesn't really matter how heavy you are as long as you regularly get challenging exercise and keep yourself in as fit as shape as possible
     
  4. Andy BB

    Andy BB Full Member

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    What laws of thermodynamics are you referring to? You can eat huge quantities of food, but if for some reason the body can't process it - eg diabetics for example - it produces no "usable" energy as far as the body is concerned. As I understand it, the calorific energy of food is based on burning it in a furnace and measuring heat generated. That does not equate to the human digestive system. Coal has a very high calorific content, but you won't get fat on it:)
     
  5. sandsnakes

    sandsnakes Full Member

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    Pennington A W Treatment of Obesity:developments in the past 150 years. American Journal of digestive disease
    - A Reorientation on obesity. New England journal of med.
    - Calorific Requirments of the obese. Industrial medicine and sugery
    - Use of fat in weight reduction diets. Delaware State Medical Journal


    to name but a few.

    The route of fat storage/fat burn is altered by insulin spikes and cortisol production. Sugar/starch spikes insulin. If you are genetically susceptibale it (starch/sugar) automatically goes into storage irrespective of calorie intake. A high fat/protien, low carbohydrate diets, can induces a stable insulin response, so the body begins to burn fat for fuel. If you introduce carbohydrate to the mix your shifted back to automatic storage. Thermo dynamics does not apply because the law of endocrine conservation is dominant in a human form.
     
    #45 sandsnakes, Sep 12, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  6. shaggystu

    shaggystu Full Member

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    erm....no idea, that was kinda my question

    cheers

    stuart
     
  7. Swallow

    Swallow Native

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    As a very very rough pointer, food isn't fuel, until you make it into fuel which requires firstly digestion and secondly chemical conversion into something the body can use as fuel.

    Firstly if it isn't digested properly it's not avialable for conversion in the first place.

    Secondly the same amount of calories in different forms may result in different yields because the conversion is different.

    The laws of thermodynamics may apply but there's a lot going on before the point you can apply them.

    True. At 6'0" and 60kg I eat like a horse and can't run the length of myself.

    On the inverse I'd day Samo Hung is pretty isn't exactly slimline and seems to be in very good shape.
     
  8. shaggystu

    shaggystu Full Member

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    that makes more sense to me, so...."the laws of thermodynamics do apply, but there are so many other factors at work in the equation as to make the laws of thermodynamics more or less irrelevant".....would be an acceptable statement then?

    cheers

    stuart
     
  9. sandsnakes

    sandsnakes Full Member

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    a very acurate statment Stu, but try telling that to a personal trainer or those who think the overweight are 'self indulgent'.
     
  10. shaggystu

    shaggystu Full Member

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    excellent, glad i got my head around what you were saying, tad confused there for a second :)

    cheers

    stuart
     
  11. udamiano

    udamiano Full Member

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    I think I get yours!! You can have it back anytime you want it :lmao:
     
  12. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    True. Also irrelevant. If it isn'r properly digested and/or converted to use as fuel, it cain't be used as stored fat either. It will simply be eliminated (possibly overworking and damaging some organs in the process)
     
  13. Dartmoor navigator

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    I don't have anything to add to this thread but thought it was interesting. I am
    posting just so I can find it again.... :)
     
  14. Lupin Rider

    Lupin Rider Full Member

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    Digestion, absorption, conversion, transfer, storage are all governed by the laws of thermodynamics. The rules of physics apply first in any scenario. The fact that the equilibrium shifts constantly due to complex control algolrythms in the endocrine system does not negate this fact just makes any accurate predictive calculation neigh impossible.

    Thus inorder to do a mass energy balance at the macro level you can't simply extrapolate from the carlorific value as stated in the thread above.
     
    #54 Lupin Rider, Sep 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2012
  15. Swallow

    Swallow Native

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    That's a very fair (and good) refinement, but a quite unfair that you chopped off the "very, very rough" disclaimer I made at the beginning when quoting me.
     
  16. Tadpole

    Tadpole Full Member

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    Diet no, diets don't work, but eat less move more. that will work. (I know I've lost 100lb)
     
  17. Dougster

    Dougster Full Member

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    I think a more pertinent question would be: Do I need to post this on a public forum?

    If you want to lose weight, lose weight, if you don't - don't. We all live with the consequences of our decisions.
     
  18. Swallow

    Swallow Native

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    I think the implied question at the start of the thread is "Do I/Should I want to lose weight?".
     
  19. sandsnakes

    sandsnakes Full Member

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    But the odd thing is you can eat more and loose weight. Just depends on what you eat.. which is the entire thermodynamics, endocrine, hormonal pathway argument.
     
  20. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    I reckon the 'less' is both less quantity as well as less of certain foods.

    Tadpole that's a brilliant effort :D I am well impressed, and so very pleased for you :D What a sterling effort :approve:

    atb,
    M
     

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