`If you think I am a Tengu...`

[sandsnakes]

The calories in energy out principle does not apply to human nutriton. The law of thermo dynamics does not apply to the human endocrine system. It is not rocket science (which is simple by comparison) human weight gain involves the law of conservation, insulin, thyroid, liver and adrenal secretion.


Its an endocrine issue and often partly genetic.

S

 

[shaggystu]

The calories in energy out principle does not apply to human nutriton. The law of thermo dynamics does not apply to the human endocrine system......

any chance of a reference or two to support those statements? i know nothing about the human endocrine system (not even what it is), but i'm interested to learn about how the law(s?) of thermodynamics can be over-ruled by it

cheers

stuart

 

[Dannytsg]

"You don't have to be fat to be un-fit" - a very good anecdote that it doesn't really matter how heavy you are as long as you regularly get challenging exercise and keep yourself in as fit as shape as possible

 

[Andy BB]

any chance of a reference or two to support those statements? i know nothing about the human endocrine system (not even what it is), but i'm interested to learn about how the law(s?) of thermodynamics can be over-ruled by it

cheers

stuart

What laws of thermodynamics are you referring to? You can eat huge quantities of food, but if for some reason the body can't process it - eg diabetics for example - it produces no "usable" energy as far as the body is concerned. As I understand it, the calorific energy of food is based on burning it in a furnace and measuring heat generated. That does not equate to the human digestive system. Coal has a very high calorific content, but you won't get fat on it

 

[sandsnakes]

Pennington A W Treatment of Obesity:developments in the past 150 years. American Journal of digestive disease
- A Reorientation on obesity. New England journal of med.
- Calorific Requirments of the obese. Industrial medicine and sugery
- Use of fat in weight reduction diets. Delaware State Medical Journal


to name but a few.

The route of fat storage/fat burn is altered by insulin spikes and cortisol production. Sugar/starch spikes insulin. If you are genetically susceptibale it (starch/sugar) automatically goes into storage irrespective of calorie intake. A high fat/protien, low carbohydrate diets, can induces a stable insulin response, so the body begins to burn fat for fuel. If you introduce carbohydrate to the mix your shifted back to automatic storage. Thermo dynamics does not apply because the law of endocrine conservation is dominant in a human form.

 

[shaggystu]

What laws of thermodynamics are you referring to?....

erm....no idea, that was kinda my question

cheers

stuart

 

[Swallow]

any chance of a reference or two to support those statements? i know nothing about the human endocrine system (not even what it is), but i'm interested to learn about how the law(s?) of thermodynamics can be over-ruled by it

cheers

stuart

As a very very rough pointer, food isn't fuel, until you make it into fuel which requires firstly digestion and secondly chemical conversion into something the body can use as fuel.

Firstly if it isn't digested properly it's not avialable for conversion in the first place.

Secondly the same amount of calories in different forms may result in different yields because the conversion is different.

The laws of thermodynamics may apply but there's a lot going on before the point you can apply them.

"You don't have to be fat to be un-fit" - a very good anecdote that it doesn't really matter how heavy you are as long as you regularly get challenging exercise and keep yourself in as fit as shape as possible

True. At 6'0" and 60kg I eat like a horse and can't run the length of myself.

On the inverse I'd day Samo Hung is pretty isn't exactly slimline and seems to be in very good shape.

 

[shaggystu]

....The laws of thermodynamics may apply but there's a lot going on before the point you can apply them......

that makes more sense to me, so...."the laws of thermodynamics do apply, but there are so many other factors at work in the equation as to make the laws of thermodynamics more or less irrelevant".....would be an acceptable statement then?

cheers

stuart

 

[sandsnakes]

a very acurate statment Stu, but try telling that to a personal trainer or those who think the overweight are 'self indulgent'.

 

[shaggystu]

a very acurate statment Stu, but try telling that to a personal trainer or those who think the overweight are 'self indulgent'.

excellent, glad i got my head around what you were saying, tad confused there for a second

cheers

stuart

 

[udamiano]

The best bit is I can eat as much as I like and it never seems to pile on!

I think I get yours!! You can have it back anytime you want it

 

[santaman2000]

As a very very rough pointer, food isn't fuel, until you make it into fuel which requires firstly digestion and secondly chemical conversion into something the body can use as fuel.

Firstly if it isn't digested properly it's not avialable for conversion in the first place....

True. Also irrelevant. If it isn'r properly digested and/or converted to use as fuel, it cain't be used as stored fat either. It will simply be eliminated (possibly overworking and damaging some organs in the process)

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

I don't have anything to add to this thread but thought it was interesting. I am
posting just so I can find it again....

 

[Lupin Rider]

...Firstly if it isn't digested properly it's not avialable for conversion in the first place.

Secondly the same amount of calories in different forms may result in different yields because the conversion is different.

The laws of thermodynamics may apply but there's a lot going on before the point you can apply them.

Digestion, absorption, conversion, transfer, storage are all governed by the laws of thermodynamics. The rules of physics apply first in any scenario. The fact that the equilibrium shifts constantly due to complex control algolrythms in the endocrine system does not negate this fact just makes any accurate predictive calculation neigh impossible.

Thus inorder to do a mass energy balance at the macro level you can't simply extrapolate from the carlorific value as stated in the thread above.

 

[Swallow]

Digestion, absorption, conversion, transfer, storage are all governed by the laws of thermodynamics. The rules of physics apply first in any scenario. The fact that the equilibrium shifts constantly due to complex control algolrythms in the endocrine system does not negate this fact just makes any accurate predictive calculation neigh impossible.

Thus inorder to do a mass energy balance at the macro level you can't simply extrapolate from the carlorific value as stated in the thread above.

That's a very fair (and good) refinement, but a quite unfair that you chopped off the "very, very rough" disclaimer I made at the beginning when quoting me.

 

[Tadpole]

First line of an old Japanese poem...

Well, actualy I am not.

Having a conversation with my flying friend. He wanted to know how heavy I am.

I weighed myself, it turns out I am 115kg.

But thats too much; he says to lose 30kg before he can take me up.

Which is crazy...I am no lightweight but that is over a quarter of my weight...if I lost that much I would be a skeleton.

Do you think I should go on a diet?

Diet no, diets don't work, but eat less move more. that will work. (I know I've lost 100lb)

 

[Dougster]

I think a more pertinent question would be: Do I need to post this on a public forum?

If you want to lose weight, lose weight, if you don't - don't. We all live with the consequences of our decisions.

 

[Swallow]

I think a more pertinent question would be: Do I need to post this on a public forum?

If you want to lose weight, lose weight, if you don't - don't. We all live with the consequences of our decisions.

I think the implied question at the start of the thread is "Do I/Should I want to lose weight?".

 

[sandsnakes]

Diet no, diets don't work, but eat less move more. that will work. (I know I've lost 100lb)

But the odd thing is you can eat more and loose weight. Just depends on what you eat.. which is the entire thermodynamics, endocrine, hormonal pathway argument.

 

[Toddy]

I reckon the 'less' is both less quantity as well as less of certain foods.

Tadpole that's a brilliant effort I am well impressed, and so very pleased for you What a sterling effort

atb,
M