Bad Grammar

[British Red]

Sorry, I'm not letting that go (I do love arguing with you) The point of "dreich" to me is "ooooh look at my authentic Scotishness". It is not intended to communicate to a wider audience. Indeed using ethnically obscure language is intended to exclude not include unless the intended audience is known to come for the same ethnicity. Its intended to add "Gaelic spice" to the communication and confer some form of credibility on the "sender" of communication not to impart information to the "receiver" of the communication (other than within the narrow confines of a street conversation north of the wall).

Indeed condemnation of one form of "cant" whilst praising a (more ancient) form is tantamount to temporal and ethnic snobbery.


Red

 

[British Red]

For the avoidance of doubt "dreich" is not even in the Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?searchword=dreich&x=27&y=17

dreich was not found in the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary

Or in the peoples dictionary

http://www.dictionary.co.uk/browse.aspx?word=dreich

The People's Dictionary - dreich - 0 entries.

Hardly a word to use that is intended to reach a diverse audience!

Red

 

[BorderReiver]

Ah but dreich was used by an English forecaster on a national broadcast. The word conveys the feeling of damp, dull, thoroughly depressing, soggy grey weather like no other word in the British language.

The other ethnic Scottish word which is currently in mainstream use is "minging" or "minger". Again a very descriptive word enjoying a wider usage, particularly in the yoof age range.

By losing our dialects we are impoverishing our language.

NOTE: I am in no way suggesting that Lallans is a dialect. Just thought I'd better make that clear to keep the hate mail at bay.

 

[BorderReiver]

For the avoidance of doubt "dreich" is not even in the Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?searchword=dreich&x=27&y=17



Or in the peoples dictionary

http://www.dictionary.co.uk/browse.aspx?word=dreich



Hardly a word to use that is intended to reach a diverse audience!

Red

Aha! You are now trying to stop the adoption of non English words into the language.

Several centuries too late Sirrah.

 

[Toddy]

I must really irritate the living daylights out of you British Red.

Tough; I write as I speak, not as some fakery or in some misguided attempt to be more couthy or even more stuffed shirt, than I am. Just me.

I like the local dialects of the British Isles, and I'm old enough to remember quite clearly when I had to have three languages. One for officialdom, one for the neighbours and one for family.
I am reliably informed that this was true nationwide.

Thankfully, those days are gone and we no longer physically chastise our youngsters for getting it muddled
I watched boys being belted in school for saying, "Aye." because some pompous English teacher felt it to be slang. A Cornish friend says much the same happened there, and an Irish one claims that she was caned by nuns for not speaking 'properly' too.
We can enjoy the astonishing variety of words that make up the English language.

All unneccesary now.

To be clearly understood in a written medium takes but a few moments care.

No one who has asked for this, on this thread, is asking for very much. I really don't see why you feel it such an issue.

No doubt you will enlighten us.

Incidentally, I was in Latvia last year, and when the weather turned grey, wet and miserable, I said, "Dreich" and the Danish archaeologist beside me, who had no word of English, said, "Ya, Dreachas !". The two Swedish ladies on the other side laughed and agreed. One said, "Draoch". I suspect it's a northern European word of quite some antiquity.

Toddy

 

[harryhaller]

merriam-webster

 

[BorderReiver]

merriam-webster

Thankyou.

"Dreary" however does not convey the true meaning of the current usage.

 

[British Red]

oooh a national broadcast?

Whoopdy doo

I just searched on "M8" on BBC.co.uk - even excluding "the M8", there are dozens of pages of references.

In any event, citing the organisation that, in the 1950s, gamely attempted to stamp out regional accent and dialect, is surely more than usually counter intuitive.

If the single use of a word of on the BBC is grounds for accepting its use, you must surely accept almost all txt spk on the grounds of it satisfying your criterion for acceptable adoption?

Red

 

[British Red]

I like the local dialects of the British Isles, and I'm old enough to remember quite clearly when I had to have three languages. One for officialdom, one for the neighbours and one for family.
I am reliably informed that this was true nationwide.

Thankfully, those days are gone and we no longer physically chastise our youngsters for getting it muddled

Toddy

But Toddy, you yourself are chastising youngsters for speaking in the manner they are most comfortable and familiar with. You are indeed imposing the same restrictions you railed against - an archaic and outmoded language and denying the reality of how people communicate.

"I have become that which I despise"

Thankfully, those days are gone and we no longer physically chastise our youngsters for getting it muddled

No - but you do choose to publically criticise them - and indeed to the point that you embarass them to the point of making them feel the necessity to apologise for their ignorance. Just read back on the thread.


Red

 

[Matthew.Passmore]

Just a little side question related to this;

what does SWMBO stand for?

It's used all the time and I can't or the life of me work out what it stands for. lol.

 

[BorderReiver]

oooh a national boradcast?

Whoopdy doo

I just searched on "M8" on BBC.co.uk - even excluding "the M8", there are dozens of pages of references.

In any event, citing the organisation that, in the 1950s, gamely attempted to stamp out regional accent and dialect, is surely more than usually counter intuitive.

If the single use of a word of on the BBC is grounds for accepting its use, you must surely accept almost all txt spk on the grounds of it satisfying your criterion for acceptable adoption?

Red

A lot of things happened and were acceptable in the 1950s that are totally unacceptable today.

I was not citing the one use as a criterion for adoption, merely pointing out it's use in a non parochial setting.

Also I agree that M8 will appear in dozens of references on searches but those results will only have relevance to our discussion if the context is disclosed.

 

[Toddy]

But Toddy, you yourself are chastising youngsters for speaking in the manner they are most comfortable and familiar with. You are indeed imposing the same restrictions you railed against - an archaic and outmoded language and denying the reality of how people communicate.

I disagree; the vast majority of people do not communicate using text as their written medium, and even the 'yoof' manage to read a newspaper They aren't stupid, they are very capable of managing appropriate responses.



No - but you do choose to publically criticise them - and indeed to the point that you embarass them to the point of making them feel the necessity to apologise for their ignorance. Just read back on the thread.


Do I ? Read the thread again.
We have asked for simple things, and that is not going to change. If they cannot take the time not to write in text then after fair warning I will remove the posts.
No dubiety, no fuss, no bother, just simple guidelines.
It's not their ignorance that is the issue, it is their courtesy

Toddy

 

[British Red]

But it is BR - just search on www.bbc.co.uk

It is certainly no less referenced than "dreich"

Sorry, and as irritating as I find "txt spk" and, as a self confessed grumpy old man, I do, The idea of someone who vehemently defends "dialect" refusing to recognise more modern dialect is patently absurd.

"I want to use my dialect becuase its important and appealing"

Coupled with

"Please do not use your dialect - more people understand it than mine but I don't so stop using it"

Now come on - its logically nonsense!

 

[Toddy]

Just a little side question related to this;

what does SWMBO stand for?

It's used all the time and I can't or the life of me work out what it stands for. lol.

She Who Must Be Obeyed.............it's a euphemism for the better half. The corrolary is HWMBLT or He Who Must Be Listened To or when I'm vexed at him, He Who Thinks He Must Be Listened To

cheers,
M

 

[British Red]

But Toddy, you yourself are chastising youngsters for speaking in the manner they are most comfortable and familiar with. You are indeed imposing the same restrictions you railed against - an archaic and outmoded language and denying the reality of how people communicate.

I disagree; the vast majority of people do not communicate using text as their written medium, and even the 'yoof' manage to read a newspaper They aren't stupid, they are very capable of managing appropriate responses.



No - but you do choose to publically criticise them - and indeed to the point that you embarass them to the point of making them feel the necessity to apologise for their ignorance. Just read back on the thread.


Do I ? Read the thread again.
We have asked for simple things, and that is not going to change. If they cannot take the time not to write in text then after fair warning I will remove the posts.
No dubiety, no fuss, no bother, just simple guidelines.
It's not their ignorance that is the issue, it is their courtesy

Toddy

Well now Toddy, can I ask you not to use words like "dreich" which are also not in common usage? I have to look them up and make an effort to understand them.

Red

 

[Toddy]

You may ask, but I shall not comply. In fact I have had several pm's complimenting me on my vocabulary

Go on, get out of your rut, quote some Wessex at us

cheers,
Toddy

 

[BorderReiver]

But it is BR - just search on www.bbc.co.uk

It is certainly no less referenced than "dreich"

Sorry, and as irritating as I find "txt spk" and, as a self confessed grumpy old man, I do, The idea of someone who vehemently defends "dialect" refusing to recognise more modern dialect is patently absurd.


Coupled with



Now come on - its logically nonsense!

We are getting "topic drift" here.

I dislike txt but I do not object to it being used in the appropriate medium. It has evolved to facilitate rapid communication using one hand in a mobile situation and does that very well.

On the other hand I like dialect but I feel that has very limited usefulness on an international forum.

No failing of logic at all; just a failure of communication, using standard English.

 

[Barney]

But Toddy, you yourself are chastising youngsters for speaking in the manner they are most comfortable and familiar with. You are indeed imposing the same restrictions you railed against - an archaic and outmoded language and denying the reality of how people communicate.

I disagree; the vast majority of people do not communicate using text as their written medium, and even the 'yoof' manage to read a newspaper They aren't stupid, they are very capable of managing appropriate responses.



No - but you do choose to publically criticise them - and indeed to the point that you embarass them to the point of making them feel the necessity to apologise for their ignorance. Just read back on the thread.


Do I ? Read the thread again.
We have asked for simple things, and that is not going to change. If they cannot take the time not to write in text then after fair warning I will remove the posts.
No dubiety, no fuss, no bother, just simple guidelines.
It's not their ignorance that is the issue, it is their courtesy

Toddy

I find this post quite bigoted and extremely offensive. WE..............THEY............ My goodness. IT seems so far removed from one person struggling to come to terms with dyslexia and posts which they were struggling to read readily.

Why dont the moderators just implement an IQ test before membership is allowed, anyone below 135 can't join.

http://www.free-iqtest.net/

 

[British Red]

Toddy - why not indeed?

prútung

Is a nice word in Wessex

Red

 

[BorderReiver]

I find this post quite bigoted and extremely offensive. WE..............THEY............ My goodness. IT seems so far removed from one person struggling to come to terms with dyslexia and posts which they were struggling to read readily.

Why dont the moderators just implement an IQ test before membership is allowed, anyone below 135 can't join.http://www.free-iqtest.net/

IQ tests tend to be biased in favour of specific national and ethnic populations.

Not a workable solution to our dilema..