Follow the sheeple or head for the hills?

[Spikey DaPikey]

what a great thread !!

Me, i have problems in large crowds, so would prefer to head t the hills, or, get on my bike and go to my girlfriends/mates etc rather than the school !!

Some great points raised, and very good reading.

Well done all

 

[British Red]

You still aint living in my barn and making horseshoes

 

[Spikey DaPikey]

Damn and blast !! uppy_dog

 

[BlackPacker]

So, first post, throw newbie rocks if need be...

You guys all have great perspectives on both sides.

When katrina hit, I looked at the pack sitting next to my door and felt guilty. I had developed a habit of spontaneous camping. I would get frustrated at a project, pick up my pack and go to the woods for three or four days. No car, bussed or walked it, and this was living in downtown SF. So, I looked at that pack and started writing about how to put one together. To be fair, the trip I took the following march was long planned, but I walked out of town, never to return.

I wound up with 44 acres in the hills. Now, if the police knock, they are asking where the refugees are supposed to stay... I have also sent maps and lock combinations to my closest dozen friends, along with pack lists, etc. I have volunteered for our local emergency response teams, and should disaster strike the hills, I'll be knocing in doors, or at least pulling people off roofs.

Sounds like you all got it together. Seems to be the case with people who spend enough time out doors.

Been luring for a while, just registered today, wanting to respond to this, and ask for campsite tips... but that is another thread....


My girl is gonna kill me if she finds out I'm on another forum...

-BP

 

[Eric_Methven]

So, first post, throw newbie rocks if need be...

You guys all have great perspectives on both sides.

When katrina hit, I looked at the pack sitting next to my door and felt guilty. I had developed a habit of spontaneous camping. I would get frustrated at a project, pick up my pack and go to the woods for three or four days. No car, bussed or walked it, and this was living in downtown SF. So, I looked at that pack and started writing about how to put one together. To be fair, the trip I took the following march was long planned, but I walked out of town, never to return.

I wound up with 44 acres in the hills. Now, if the police knock, they are asking where the refugees are supposed to stay... I have also sent maps and lock combinations to my closest dozen friends, along with pack lists, etc. I have volunteered for our local emergency response teams, and should disaster strike the hills, I'll be knocing in doors, or at least pulling people off roofs.

Sounds like you all got it together. Seems to be the case with people who spend enough time out doors.

Been luring for a while, just registered today, wanting to respond to this, and ask for campsite tips... but that is another thread....


My girl is gonna kill me if she finds out I'm on another forum...

-BP

Thanks for sharing BP, and welcome to BCUK.

Eric

 

[Greg]

One man's wilderness is another man's playground!

 

[ilan]

Can I head for the local scout hut its on reasonably high ground and I know we can cook for and have tents for over 100 people plus just hope they all bring some food and blankets ?
Of course what this disaster does show is just how quickly it can all go pear shaped so for instance there is now no sewerage system you are surrounded by water but non to drink without major hassel. food will be in short supply the smell and damp will permeate every thing and of course the risk of illness increases on a daily basis

 

[Eric_Methven]

When I started this thread I thought the worst of the bad weather was over and wanted to see what people thought about heading for the local school / village hall / community centre or being self reliant. The terrible weather of the past week just shows how fragile our society has become, and reinforces the need to have a backup plan.

There are many, many housing estates built on flood planes and many who's drainage systems simply won't cope with the volume of water that has recently fallen from above. What we've seen this last couple of weeks will in all probability become a regular event, certainly more regular than the 100 year floods originally planned for.

It's heartening on the one hand to see people here have thought about it. It's also saddening to see people on TV not only waiting to be rescued from their homes, but also waiting to be housed, fed and compensated.

Where do we go from here? As a civilised society I mean. How can we minimise damage to homes that should never have been built where they have in the first place. How can we build or improve flood defences? Should we even attempt to tame flood planes, or should we tear down the vulnerable houses and rebuild on safer and higher ground?

Big questions I know, and I know there's no easy answer but I'd love to know everyone's views on possible solutions.

Eric

 

[Tadpole]

If, as the government keeps bleating on about, there is a need for two million new homes, that I doubt that there are enough brown field sites to cope. Brown field and city centre building should be given priority as we need urban renewal.

On the topic of flooding then the answer is clear, at least to me, plan for flooding, build new houses at least one storey higher, put in under-house car parking to raise the living accommodation 12 15 foot above the ground level.
This works two-fold, it prevents the need for acres of concrete parking spaces, and in the event of a flood, the house is 12 foot higher, so the damage would be minimal. Secondly dig up and replace existing drainage and quadruple its capacity, dig up all the concrete and tarmac playing fields area, and replace with grass. Encourage people replace paving and concrete parking spaces in their garden with shaped blocks that allow the grass to live in the spaces. Reduce the parking spaces in out of town supermarkets and encourage people not all to shop on the same day. Give special financial concessions to people who don’t drive to the supermarket, but shop locally. Make people who want to deck their gardens put in under decking drainage equal to the task of soaking up the rain from their garden. The things that can be done are only limited by the desire to prevent such flooding happening again.

 

[spamel]

I seem to recall a coloured sticker being handed out to car owners in Germany. It had to be displayed in the window and as I recall if the pollution levels were too high, only certain colours were allowed on the roads. It never happened whilst I was over there, but it could easily be implemented.

If only public transport was cheaper and more efficient, maybe folk would use it instead of taking a car. It's up to them at the top really, but then look at the money that would be lost in car tax and fuel tax. It's never gonna happen.

Climate change is here to stay, it was gonna happen in the en, but we've accelerated it by carbon emmissions and etc. We are still coming out of an ice age, which seems to be forgotten, but the growth of mankind is growing too fast and there are too many people crammed into cities. I wonder how much of the planet is unpopulated?

 

[Tengu]

Talking to people about Tewksbury, I was saying `couldnt they be better prepared`?
and these public said no.
Me talking about the DRINKING water problem, "theres no shortage of the stuff, couldnt they purify it?"

And I was told that it is apparently not easy to make dirty water potable (why do we have waterplant?s)

Strange folk.

 

[spamel]

I was watching Les Stroud the other day. He was stuck at sea and eventually washed up on a beach that was about 90 yards across. He distilled water in the casing that his life raft was stowed in, and some plastic sheeting by making a solar still.

This got me to thinking, if you could get a 25 litre oil drum like what veg oil comes in for the chip shops, and fill it with water of any sort, ie. sea water, brackish or polluted, then set it to boiling, collecting the steam and then condensing it will give you distilled water. All you would need to do is design an inverted cone in the top of the can and suspend a collection pot underneath, this would be the same principle as the solar still but could be controlled as to the output.

Failing that, a piece of hose running through a bottle filled with sea water would cool the steam and give fresh water, so if Les can do it on a deserted island in the middle of the sea, why can't we?

 

[akabu]

are you in the hill's now? with the flooding that's happening .How have your plans changed since the event?

 

[Womble]

"Where do we go from here? As a civilised society I mean."

I could at this point make a comment along the lines of:

"What's this 'we'? YOU'RE up in the hills, not wanting anything to do with the sheeple; along with (apperantly) over 80% of the folk who took the survey..."

But I won't.

 

[Eric_Methven]

I already live on a hill so it's hypothetical for me. By 'we' I mean the country collectively. The local authorities, the government, the emergency services etc.

It's not that I don't want anything to do with the sheeple, I'll help out in my own way if I can, but I won't allow myself to be mindlessly herded into some emergency shelter to take up a cot when I can look after myself quite adequately and leave the cot for someone who possible can't fend for themselves. Yes, 80% on here have elected to be independent in an evacuation scenario. It might not be heading for the hills, that's a metaphor really. It might be going to stay at a friends house by mutual prior agreement, it might be going to stay with mum and dad for a few days - whatever.

But basically it means forethought and planning. The 80% have a plan. They know what they'll do if something bad happens. The sheeple (and there's plenty enough of them) don't have a plan, don't have a clue what to do in any emergency, don't have spare food and water in the house and in the main expect to be told what to do and be looked after. This is possibly a direct consequence of living in a nanny state.

Eric

 

[gregorach]

[...] so if Les can do it on a deserted island in the middle of the sea, why can't we?

We can, and do. However... (a) It's appallingly expensive to do on a large scale. (b) It takes no small amount of time to design and build the plant. You don't just pop over to DesalinationPlants'R'Us.com, order one off the shelf, and get it delivered and plumbed in the next day, you know?

 

[Womble]

Eric - but surely there's a contradiction in there. At the beginning you're talking about what we - "the country collectively. The local authorities, the government, the emergency services etc." can do. But at the end you say "This is possibly a direct consequence of living in a nanny state." Where does local/national planning stop and nannying start?

There's obviously a fine line that has to be drawn here - regardless of the fact I've to a certain extent played devils advocate on this thread, I'm in broad agreement with you that people should be willing to take responsabilty and make their own plans.

However I still have to disagree about the concept of up and leaving everyone else to deal with the situation - which (even if it's not what you mean) is how your original question came across to me. Maybe it's because I haven't had the sort of experiences you describe earlier in the thread where you have tried to help and its been thrown back in your face; but I'd hope that if the situation arose as you describe I'd be feeling guilty if I wasn't doing something to help - even if it was filling sandbags!

May I add my thanks for raising this issue / starting this thread? It really has made me think about a lot of things!

 

[Eric_Methven]

May I add my thanks for raising this issue / starting this thread? It really has made me think about a lot of things!

You're welcome. It's made me think about a lot of issues as well. I've modified my attitude to some extent too having thought about it in much more detail. I'd still do my own thing, but If it were any sort of emergency other than mandatory evacuation in the middle of the night, through the risk of a reservoir dam bursting (which was the original scenario of this thread), I'd hang about and fill sandbags too, or if I had an inflatable, move people to dry ground. Only when everyone was safe and I could do no more would I take myself off to where I'd prepared for. I wouldn't follow them to a communal shelter though as I simply wouldn't need to.

Thanks everyone for contributing to a stimulating, thought provoking and relevant thread, and thanks for keeping it to a respectful adult discussion.

Eric

 

[spamel]

We can, and do. However... (a) It's appallingly expensive to do on a large scale. (b) It takes no small amount of time to design and build the plant. You don't just pop over to DesalinationPlants'R'Us.com, order one off the shelf, and get it delivered and plumbed in the next day, you know?

I realise that, but if there wasn't a water source at all, would you wait for the state to sort it out, or make your own distillation kit that you could run with barbecue charcoal or wood collected from the forest? I know what I'd do!

 

[scoops_uk]

If, as the government keeps bleating on about, there is a need for two million new homes, that I doubt that there are enough brown field sites to cope. Brown field and city centre building should be given priority as we need urban renewal.

Tadpole,

Building on brownfield land already is a big priority, but as you suggest there isn't anything like enough brownfield land and of course it's a limited supply so will run out fairly soon.

I think the points you make about design of housing, reduction of hard surface run off and the responsibility of the individual in choices they make are excellent.

Scoops