Goretex, as great as they say?

[TAHAWK]

One more vote for Andy's advice plus Adam's addendum. I have given up on Gore-Tex for winter outings here unless an unexpected warm spell drives temps above freezing. Otherwise, I get condensation inside the Gore-Tex shell that turns to ice when I stop being active, unless I change out garments..

There was a polymer fabric around that opened up spaces when warm and closed them when cold. By this means, it ventilated more when you were hot and less when you were not. It was, at least, highly water repellant and breathed far better than Gore-Tex. Net, it seemed to keep me dryer than Gore-Tex. When I tried to buy a coat made of it for the wife, I couldn't find one. I was told that the company using it stopped doing so because everyone has been brainwashed to ask for Gore-Tex as THE answer. It's ten years old now, and I'm "saving it" (for who knows what).

 

[addyb]

...which is exactly why I wear Ventile in cold, dry weather. It breathes.

Gore-Tex has it's place, don't get me wrong. I just think it's not all it's cracked up to be. On the other, it's share of the market is probably nothing to scoff at.

Adam

 

[rik_uk3]

All this talk of Gortex material, but little about the design of garments. The way a jacket is cut will help it self ventilate. I've used army GT jackets, and ended up wet in them through condensation; I now use a Berghaus Mera Peak, and to be honest its fantastic, never let me down, design factors coming into play here perhaps?

That said, I still want a new Barbour and a ventile anorak, I'm just greedy

 

[mark a.]

That's a good point Rik. My gore-tex jacket isn't too bad for breathability, except in proper strenuous activities...

...but as soon as I put my rucksack on I'm screwed, as the straps (particularly the waist strap) stop air circulating, and things get rather hot and steamy. It's probably a good reason why some people hate waist straps.

Some day I'll get some Ventile and see what the fuss is about. My Barbour's ace, though, but definitely less breathable than gore-tex!

 

[Shambling Shaman]

I think that Gore-tex was a child of its time. However, there are other products every bit as good, or better, now. Personally I am a great fan of Paramo. I like their ethical approach, the fact that it can be reproofed and can be stitched.

Fully agree, I was put off by the cost but was given a paramo wind stopper by my MRT its great so splashed out on some Cascada trousers after a week I went a got a spare pair and have not looked back - Hot or cold wet or dry - ima the best trousers.

 

[Zodiak]

My Barbour's ace, though, but definitely less breathable than gore-tex!

When I got my first gortex SWMBO borrowed my Barbour and put it away wet in the lobby. 3 months later it stank so bad even after washing that we had to bin it. What a waste it was good coat.

 

[singteck]

I am wondering here...... if goretex is to work properly, you need the surface to be water repellent. If the surface is water repellent...... do you need goretex???

singteck

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

used goretex for years, always expect more from it than it delivers!

often a (waxed)coated fabric would do.

the only 100% breathable item is skin!

 

[rik_uk3]

When I got my Mera Peak, I bought the zip in matching polar fleece, and to be honest am not impressed with it. I found myself cold wearing the two, so I now use a good jumper with the jacket and find this a much better combo. The quality of the Berghaus fleece is not worth the high price they charge for it; the jacket however, is worth every penny

I've been re-reading Ranulph Fiennes book "Captain Scott", a very good read, and I'd forgotten that it was Scott who designed the wire stiffened hood used in jackets even today, and incorporated them in his ventile clothing

 

[fred gordon]

Most Alaskan hunting guides tell their clients not to bring GoreTex, or any of the "breathable" fabric rain gear on a hunt. They have apparently found, from lots of experience, that the stuff will not handle the rains of Alaska

I have a couple of GoreTex garments, and while I do not sweat in them quite as much as I do in "plastic," I still get damp on the inside from sweat. Haven't had too much problem with rain coming thru. Yet...

This has me wondering. What do they suggest people bring instead of goretex?

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

PVC or rubber and lots of it!

 

[addyb]

Good point there, Rappleby. Helly Hansen pioneered their "3 layer dress system" for wearing underneath of their PVC rainwear and it works wonders.

If you use a baselayer of polypropylene, it doesn't absorb any moisture (0.01%) it pushes all the sweat away from the body's core. The second layer would ideally be fibre pile because it transports moisture faster than fleece.

And so, even though PVC doesn't breathe, the previous two layers sort of "float" moisture onto the cotton backing of the PVC. It sounds strange, but yes, it actually does work.

I don't know, if I could wear Ventile all the time I would. But sadly, Gore-Tex does and will always have it's place.

Adam

 

[Zodiak]

Good point there, Rappleby. Helly Hansen pioneered their "3 layer dress system" for wearing underneath of their PVC rainwear and it works wonders.
Adam

I had forgotten that!

I was given a very old bright yellow HH Smock, its a bit heavy and I only wore it for sailing but it always kept me dry.

I might dig that back out again but like many of my old clothes they all seem to have shrunk round the waist

 

[TAHAWK]

I am wondering here...... if goretex is to work properly, you need the surface to be water repellent. If the surface is water repellent...... do you need goretex???

singteck

At least on this side of the Big Pond, "water repellant" does not mean it will keep out heavy or constant rain. For that, you need something rated as "waterrpoof." Barring breaches in the Gore-Tex film, it does keep out the outside moisture.

Good point about design, rik. I would not even consider a Gore-Tex garment without pit zips and chest ventilation zips (often chest pockets with netting to form the pouch). A back cape covering mesh across the shoulders is also nice.

Still, when it's below freezing, the old Woolrich Mountain Parka comes out. It's uncoated nylon with surface water repellant treatment. Breaths SO much better than any Gore-Tex garment I've tried.

 

[Voivode]

This has me wondering. What do they suggest people bring instead of goretex?

Many outdoorsmen still wear oiled canvas, particularly those on horseback. The jackets are heavy, but shrug the water just fine. They aren't so good if you're exerting yourself as they breathe like one would expect.

Edit: Many canadian infantrymen swear up and down by "stealth suits"; They consist of only the goretex membrane, no backing. Worn between your wicking undergarments and your outer layer (which for them is standard issue cotton/poly combat attire) they cut the wind and keep one dry even when the uniform is soaked through. Since it is only the goretex membrane, isn't good for wearing as an outer layer as it will tear if caught on branches, but worn underneath, is apparently silent and effective.

Of course, they are reasonably difficult to acquire (The only site I know of on the net is out for reworking, and otherwise you have to go to a base and buy them in person) and reasonably expensive (~$160CAD for top or bottom IIRC).

 

[Shambling Shaman]

Many canadian infantrymen swear up and down by "stealth suits"; They consist of only the goretex membrane, no backing. Worn between your wicking undergarments and your outer layer (which for them is standard issue cotton/poly combat attire) they cut the wind and keep one dry even when the uniform is soaked through. Since it is only the goretex membrane, isn't good for wearing as an outer layer as it will tear if caught on branches, but worn underneath, is apparently silent and effective.

The British "solider 95" is the same you were the gortex under you combats. Funny thing is when I got issued mine it the RAF the stores staff thought the instructions were wrong and gave out the gortex jakets last = No pockets on it as it was a mid/base layer

 

[OldBaldGuy]

"This has me wondering. What do they (Alaskan hunting guides) suggest people bring instead of goretex?"

Good question. I based my statement on articles I have read in the past, but have no idea where. I just did some googling and found that of the guide services I checked, most just said to bring "good" raingear. One was more specific, he said "Two piece loose fitting and top quality. I prefer unlined coated nylon. ¾ length raincoat works well with hip boots."

Several also specified "silent" raingear...

 

[easilyled]

PVC means hot and sweaty. Barbour or other waxed cotton means stupidly heavy and constricting. Yes, I wear a Barbour for hacking away at brambles while I am working in winter as its tough stuff but no way would I ever take it on a "walk".

Goretex is just the job. There's probably newer, even more expensive materials with improved qualities but what the heck I havent got an infinite bank account.

Some years ago I did a "walk" of about 5 hours all told. After an hour and a climb into the mist I decided (as my bottom half was decidedly wet by then) I should put my goretex overtrousers on. This was mainly to keep warm to be honest. I walked about another hour in the drizzle/mist before it dried up. I kept the goretex overtrousers on as I couldnt be ****d to take them off really. At the other end I made myself look a bit more respectable for the inevitable pub visit and lo and behold upon taking the overtrousers off, my trousers had completely dried out.

Whats wrong with goretex again? I swear by the stuff in the wet.

 

[Squidders]

This interested me... I have purchased a Hyvent "The North Face" McMurdo parka for my girlfriend and have a Rab eVent bivi bag on the way

http://www.slate.com/id/2085417/

 

[leon-1]

I am not really a fan of Gore-Tex.

I find it expensive, noisy, not overly rubust (not the design or the stitching, the material itself), not overly breathable and no better than any of the others out there. Gore-Tex also has a limited working life.

I have used issued waterproofs, jackets from Sprayway, The North Face and Mountain Equipment amongst others, none of them could you wear around a fire without worrying that you may put a hole in them. I used to carry Gore-Tex repair patches in my kit, they do the job at a cost, for when my Gore-Tex inevitably got ripped (a set of crampons clipping the base of a set of salopettes or a barbed wire fence / blackthorn bush whilst out and about that caught my jacket).

Nowadays I use a Ventile Jacket, on the rare occassion I will wear a lightweight waterproof under it if the weather starts to make it through.