Crossbow and broadhead sales ban and crossbow licensing one step closer.

[bobnewboy]

Neither the Police nor the wider Home Office record any data regarding death or injury by crossbow. See FOI request:

Injuries and deaths caused by crossbows - Office for National Statistics

If there was a significant number of injuries or deaths surely that data would be recorded.

 

[Toddy]

Me too, but we didn't grow up in a world with conscienceless video games of murder and violent mayhem. We grew up in a world where adults had lived through wars and taught us reality.

My brother's childhood shenanigans were one thing, but next door neighbour came off his anti depressants and bought a crossbow. He shot it right through his front door. Fortunately it faced the gable wall of the next house. He was so drunk it's a surprise he managed to load the crossbow. His father had words with him, and he gave it away, and we all breathed a little more easily....then we just had to worry about who he'd given it to.

That's the thing; not everyone is honestly safe with them......though that's true about cars too, but cars have purpose beyond ballistics.....

 

[Toddy]

Neither the Police nor the wider Home Office record any data regarding death or injury by crossbow. See FOI request:

Injuries and deaths caused by crossbows - Office for National Statistics

If there was a significant number of injuries or deaths surely that data would be recorded.

Well that's a mistake.

Look up Kyle Clifford....he killed three women, stabbed one and shot the other two with the crossbow.

Crossbow killer Kyle Clifford jailed for triple murders

A judge tells Kyle Clifford he is "soaked in self-pity" and will never be released from prison.

www.bbc.co.uk

or look up Laura Sugden

Southburn crossbow victim's partner welcomes tighter rules

Laura Sugden has been calling for tougher laws after her partner, Shane Gilmer, was killed in 2018.

www.bbc.co.uk

shot in the head with a bolt and her partner killed.

or this January in Glasgow

Crossbow fired at Glasgow house in 'targeted attack'

The incident took place about 19:10 at Plenshin Court in the city's Priesthill area.

www.bbc.co.uk

Crossbow fired at Glasgow house in 'targeted attack'​

 

[Woody girl]

Well that's a mistake.

Look up Kyle Clifford....he killed three women, stabbed on and shot the other two with the crossbow.

Crossbow killer Kyle Clifford jailed for triple murders

A judge tells Kyle Clifford he is "soaked in self-pity" and will never be released from prison.

www.bbc.co.uk

or look up Laura Sugden

Southburn crossbow victim's partner welcomes tighter rules

Laura Sugden has been calling for tougher laws after her partner, Shane Gilmer, was killed in 2018.

www.bbc.co.uk

So that's 3 so far.........
The government must have the full data, or why on earth would they want to enact such a law.? To say they have no recorded data makes a mockery of it all, and makes me think there is something else behind it.
I know, I'm a suspicious cynic arnt I?

 

[Herman30]

Yes I'm being overly cynical, but , it always starts somewhere and slowly slowly catchee monkey. I can't put what I want to here as I'd be thrown off the forum! I'm just tired of being told what I can and cannot do.

These sentences by @Woody girl is something I concur with 100%.

 

[bobnewboy]

I’m not saying that none occur, just that the fact is that Government doesn’t find it necessary to record them in official statistics. The only non official figures I’ve seen are fewer than 10 people were killed in that way in the 10 years to 2021, or that 43 people were killed or seriously injured in the 20 years to 2021. Rates of death and serious injury due to knife crime are between 500 and 1000 times higher, per annum, by way of comparison.

 

[Toddy]

The laws change with the times.

Our King James 2nd banned golf and football....because it got in the way of young men practicing archery

https://digital.nls.uk/golf-in-scotland/banned/

right enough that was in 1457....

 

[Machiavelli]

As someone with a FAC and someone who enjoys and owns crossbows, I am in favour of licensing. Yes, it’s a pain. Yes, it sometimes feels like the system is set-up to stop you getting a license. However, it does stop huge numbers of firearms getting into the hands of people who shouldn’t be allowed to handle a spoon.

Crossbows are lethal. When used with broadhead arrows they have the potential to deliver catastrophic damage. There are lots of people who should never be allowed to own one. Licensing makes sense — even if it’s a pain.

 

[Woody girl]

I’m not saying that none occur, just that the fact is that Government doesn’t find it necessary to record them in official statistics. The only non official figures I’ve seen are fewer than 10 people were killed in that way in the 10 years to 2021, or that 43 people were killed or seriously injured in the 20 years to 2021. Rates of death and serious injury due to knife crime are between 500 and 1000 times higher, per annum, by way of comparison.

Your point about knife crime shows a marked difference in a legal (atm) weapon, (xbow,) and a supposedly illegal weapon. (Knife.)

I'd also be interested in the amount of gun crime in the last 10- 20 years under licence regulations, and then compare to crossbow .
Should tell us a lot.

 

[slowworm]

Why shouldn’t a crossbow be regulated to the same extent as a gun?

1) The proposal is not treating them the same as legally held guns, it is far more restrictive. It is banning the sale of them. So a new user or someone who gets a licence could not buy or even replace an existing crossbow.

2 ) The licencing system has not been set out. What are the costs and how will it work. It's likely to put off ownership so people give up. Is stamping down on outdoor pursuits sensible?

3) The legislation will take time, a licencing scheme will be costly and if it is policed this will take up more resources.

4) Relating the point 3, would the cost involved be better spent on reducing crime and criminal behaviour? Will someone not commit a crime because they can't use a legal cross bow or will they use a knife, a different type of bow, or something illegal?

5) Will it set a precedent? Would some knives be next such as daggers or a collectable knife need a licence - after all no one needs them and they could harm someone...

 

[GreyCat]

How about last night? A car rather than a lorry, but similar qualifications, safety checks etc required:

Several suffer serious injuries after car ploughs into pedestrians in Derby

Friar Gate is closed from the junction with Curzon Street and Cheapside, up to Ford Street

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

These incidents happen several times a year, and many more people are injured in each one compared to any crossbow incident. Some are barely reported beyond the local press.

A moment’s checking on news finds deliberate incidents (rather than accidents) all over the country. Examples: Oct 4 2025, Birmingham; 26 May 2025 Liverpool (130 injured); May 10 2025, Salisbury, and so forth.

Just as likely to have been someone high on drugs or had one too many... or even showing off to mates and losing control. A Suzuki Swift is a fairly typical "young lads" first car after all, and I suspect that any half-competent would-be terrorist would choose something a bit bigger and a higher profile target. This one screams "lads show off gone wrong" to me.

So, I've just learned that someone drove a van into a crowd of people in Derby yesterday, injuring 20 people.
I'll bet that van had all the paperwork in order. But whether it had or not, it didn't stop someone attempting to injure and kill innocent others out minding their own business.
The report says the person has been arrested, and is a 30 Yr old of "another" ethnicity other than English , not that I'm casting any aspertions, I don't know the ethnic make up of the area, so the odds of it being any particular person are totaly irrelevant for me.
But, this illustrates perfectly the point that sadly,
Paper work, and registration etc of anything that could harm others in any way, do not stop those who have a certain mindset .
And yes, details are sketchy of course, and it could have been that the brakes failed.. but I doubt it.
My point being that jumping on crossbows, in the big scheme of things is realy quite a pointless exercise, when a van car or lorry can do far more damage in the wrong hands than a bow. Registered or not.

Derby is a city with a high proportion of ethnic people.

Here's another scenario: Young lad, inexperienced but just passed test, in a car with another young lad, they've taken some drugs (not unusual these days), showing off and lose control- that is the classic "accident formula" which is so common that there's talk of restricting the driving licenses of young people who have just passed their test.

Do you think the number of deaths and injuries involving cars would increase or decrease if we dropped the requirement to have a driving license, insurance, MOT and other strict laws around vehicle usage, and anyone could just buy a car and drive it around as they pleased?

Increase, a lot. Which is why as I said above, there is talk of restricted licences for young people just passed their test. It's also why to get insurance, a lot of such youngsters have a black box fitted. One of the restraining factors at the moment is the difficulty in getting a test slot, if licence and insurance requirements were removed it would be "car"nage (pardon the pun) as it was back in the 1980's with the original cheap hot-hatches.....

In most circumstances a car is much more lethal than a crossbow and in many cases to a lot more people at the same time. "But what about all the good it can do?" That comparison is extremely irrelevant if one looks at the potential lethality. Besides I think that if we take the total kill count of crossbows vs. cars the latter win by some margin.

Aye well, there's lies, damn lies and statistics. The "total kill count" is clearly a poor compartor as there's rather more cars in the UK than crossbows, and one could argue that a more appropriate comparison is injury level vs useage level. On a "use-per-hour basis" with all car use hours vs all crossbow use hours compared it might be interesting...

And of course, cars are already heavily regulated (not just licence etc but also safety featurs to make them less damaging) and bring clear benefits. Plus, regulations for cars increase year on year.....

GC

 

[slowworm]

And of course, cars are already heavily regulated (not just licence etc but also safety featurs to make them less damaging) and bring clear benefits. Plus, regulations for cars increase year on year.....

Not it the same way as a firearm. I need two people to vouch for me, a Dr report that I pay for covering my entire medical history, good reason to posses, an interview and any hint of me taking illegal drugs any other indiscretions would prohibit me from ownership. Then I have to secure any firearms against theft and misuse.

None of which applies to car owners or drivers. Just forcing manufacturers to have decent security might not only save lives but save the country millions.

 

[Woody girl]

The laws change with the times.

Our King James 2nd banned golf and football....because it got in the way of young men practicing archery

https://digital.nls.uk/golf-in-scotland/banned/

right enough that was in 1457....

I'd rather practice archery every Sunday afternoon than play boring old golf or football anyway!

 

[Toddy]

I'd rather practice archery every Sunday afternoon than play boring old golf or football anyway!

Oh me too

 

[JB101]

At the moment the Police can't efficiently manage FAC/Shotgun licencing,and as usual criminals will ignore any legal requirements introduced.
I would imagine legislation against bows would follow at some point ,especially if some 'Numpty'used one to injure /kill a person either intentionaly or by accident.
There is also a 'campaign' against catapults being promoted due to misuse.

It appears to me that its a case of blaming the tool rather than the person,and for Politicians 'we have to be seen to be doing something'.

 

[rarms]

Yes, but you’ve made my point for me. It’s not the item, it’s the person and their ill intent. Licensed, insured, qualified, restricted or even banned, people can and do use those items for harm.

This is the nail on the head

 

[rarms]

If you keep a crossbow for target shooting and have space to shoot, or access to a range etc would you apply for the licence?

Would anyone here not apply?

It's not necessarily whether people would apply. But what if the same rules as FAC were applied. I.e. prison time previously is a blanket ban, prescription meds for certain things being a no no. Cost of licensing to the applicant, will they be required to buy a cabinet etc..

Liberties shouldn't be removed for people when there are adequate laws already in place to deal with the issues already.

 

[rarms]

Cars are restricted and registered. If you have one “off ticket” and unregistered there are powers in place to deal with that.

Anyone can literally take cash to a private seller of a car, give them a fake name and address, pay cash and have a car. That's illegal, but licenses, taxes, ANPR doesnt make it any less possible.

 

[rarms]

Just to be clear, are people genuinely holding the position that a car which is designed for transporting things and which has an overall huge net benefit to people across the country, is the same as a crossbow which was originally designed with the sole purpose of shooting a sharp projectile into people and now only has legal usage by a very, very small number of hobbyists? You don't see how there's a difference in the benefit to humanity vs risk to humanity tradeoff?

I'm not suggesting a car is the same as a crossbow, I'm using it as an example of licensing being ineffective if someone is intent on using an item for illegal purposes

 

[Chris]

I'm not suggesting a car is the same as a crossbow, I'm using it as an example of licensing being ineffective if someone is intent on using an item for illegal purposes

Would you agree that if cars didn’t require a license (after lessons), insurance, an MOT and a set of laws surrounding them, that there would be lots more deaths?