Yeah, an interesting man. It's likely the next book I pick up.
It's a shame if Goggins is viewed as a controversial figure.
It's a shame if Goggins is viewed as a controversial figure.
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I've just finished his second book, it's got a good message in it.
To quote my 24 year old son who's currently nearly finished cycling from Singapore to Northern Thailand
"He really drives home some fundamental lessons in what brings peace and makes life meaningful — growth and effort "
To quote my 24 year old son who's currently nearly finished cycling from Singapore to Northern Thailand
"He really drives home some fundamental lessons in what brings peace and makes life meaningful — growth and effort "
As soon as I've made my way through the first, I'll get on to that one too.
That sounds like quite the feat. Good on your son.
If you don't mind a personal question. Have there been any particular challenges to raising a boy in the age of the internet and all the good and bad that goes with it?
I'm well aware that's a personal question and won't take it badly if you'd rather not venture into your personal life.
When my peers returned the BIGGEST rejection came from traditional groups like the VFW and AL ‘ You lost your war, are scruffy hippies etc’ Hollywierd cashed in with Chuckie Norisk and Rumble WINNING. Bob deNiro came home in full dress uniform andBEARD, Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Whenever with two conscientious objectors; Harrison Ford and Martin Sheen. There was even a Biker Film with a special unit of Hell’s Angels riding HDs equipped with grenade launchers , Ma Dueces and lots of bikini clad Vietnamese girls.
25-50% of our homeless and prison population are vets.
Ah, but today some kid says he’s ‘ thinking of enlisting’ and is showered with ‘Thankyou for your service’ and watch out for the crazy guy digging for fries in the dustbin behind your job at McDs’
And oh, we give discounts to active service now.
Attitudes haven’t changed one bit.
Marketing just changed the focus.
Yes. He's being tried for exploitation and trafficking. He's actually posted online what his technique and aim is. A truly nasty piece of work! His brother too! There's social media messages from his brother actually following Tates script to create the initial contact and manipulation.
If you think such behaviour isn't worthy of investigation, prosecution and hopefully prison term then we'll have to agree to disagree. But I would still be interested to know why, is it purely about being a male? Do you think no male should be locked up?
Sorry but have you actually read about what he's been up to? It's using PUA techniques to manipulate and exploit. If gold diggers get their mark to perform on video feeds for paying g customers. That they coach others how to do this. That they get huge media following to do this. That they use highly misogynistic language too. Perhaps then there's a parity there. I don't think that is often the case.
Try to ignore the named person.
I'm focusing on what is collectively known as PUA - you seem focused on Mr Tate.
I'm not following what the rest of what you are saying however. Sorry.
My point is purely that there are/can be bad elements in both sexes.
If a guy who has failed in the dating arena for whatever reason and wants to be successful - if he chooses to invest the time and energy in becoming more successful ( improve his 'game' ) for his own purposes ( to date ) then I personally can't see how that is wildly different to what else is happening. The notion of a PUA is just about social engineering, keywords, psyche , reading NVC and psychology to result in a desired result.
Its massively different to someone that has used criminal or abusive techniques.
I believe everyone's entitled to due process.
Try and find a bit more tolerance and compassion.
No, I don't think males should be exempt from prison.
Chaps, lets put Mr Tate aside. I think we all agree his is a most unsavoury character, if not toxic for society irrespective of whether he has broken laws. He is undeserving of the amount of attention this thread is paying him.
From what I read here, the only difference between views is the very small one. Some are more willing to write as if they already assume he is guilty as charged and should be punished, based upon what has been reported in the media, while others want to wait for the trial and fuller evidence to be made public before deciding whether the court's judgement is just or not.
Personally I am in the latter camp, mostly because I have such distaste for nearly every aspect of his life style that if I had heard of him before his arrest made him more notorious, I would have been rooting for fate to take a massive dump on him. However, I think I would prefer a legal system where folk are presumed innocent until found guilty and trial is by jury of peers, not by a media fuelled mob. I am trying to curb my enthusiasm for seeing him come unstuck.
Might not be bad for folk to go back to the start of this thread and read from the beginning. There was some good stuff posted then, less polarised than some of the latter posts.
All the best
Chris
From what I read here, the only difference between views is the very small one. Some are more willing to write as if they already assume he is guilty as charged and should be punished, based upon what has been reported in the media, while others want to wait for the trial and fuller evidence to be made public before deciding whether the court's judgement is just or not.
Personally I am in the latter camp, mostly because I have such distaste for nearly every aspect of his life style that if I had heard of him before his arrest made him more notorious, I would have been rooting for fate to take a massive dump on him. However, I think I would prefer a legal system where folk are presumed innocent until found guilty and trial is by jury of peers, not by a media fuelled mob. I am trying to curb my enthusiasm for seeing him come unstuck.
Might not be bad for folk to go back to the start of this thread and read from the beginning. There was some good stuff posted then, less polarised than some of the latter posts.
All the best
Chris
He's actually traveled through the challenges that can come from social media, internet etc quite well, he didn't have a phone until he went to Uni and he often says how good that was. He's very aware of the influence the modern world has on his peers and younger kids, he's developed strategies to stop himself from getting caught up in online stuff, like leaving his phone in the kitchen and turning it off completely when he's got to focus on tasks. He focuses on using tech, social media, apps etc as tools that he controls. He's generally focused on what he can control in his life and works hard at not letting other people, companies, social media etc having control of it. At 24 he's got a masters in Physics and a Masters in AI and technology so he's not shy of the internet and tech.
My two youngest daughters (youngest of 5) on the other hand have a much harder time balancing online and life and we're often perceived as hard nosed on our approach to their use of tech and how they want to spend their time.
A big shift seems to be that communication is via apps and messages (says he that's typing on a forum that he created!
) is the only way to go, and it's 'generally' shallow, and the pursuit of truth, reality and work has turned into opinion and feelings. There's a lot of damage done by the online world, how it works and manipulates... But hey, I'm starting to get political so I'll leave it at that 
But you were criticising me for saying that specific PUA should be jailed which was why I replied about that specific PUA.
As to wider use of PUA techniques that you seem to make out as just a guy trying harder. Hmm! That might be the case with some but when you move into using psychological theory or other to manipulate people then you're into dodgy territory imho. That's the territory of people like the Tate brothers, just that they take it to violence and exploitation.
@CC I think we're in the same camp in that I too want due process to be carried out in fair and just court. I too find him most distasteful even with just the parts made fully public through journalists finding his social media posts about his actions and approaches. There's a lot to condemn him with that in the public domain. I too want fate to dump on him. That is my meaning throughout my posts.
Another point I too want people to understand that his mentality is only a short step away from the single male reading up on PUA techniques to get a better success rate with women. It's the other end of the journey to the Tates. It's why I get annoyed when it sounds like there's appeasement for the Tates and other PUAs. Using psychological tricks to manipulate is a slippery slope. Supermarkets do it but at the end of the day there's benefit to the victim, us, too. With PUA there's questionable benefit to the women imho.
Another point I too want people to understand that his mentality is only a short step away from the single male reading up on PUA techniques to get a better success rate with women. It's the other end of the journey to the Tates. It's why I get annoyed when it sounds like there's appeasement for the Tates and other PUAs. Using psychological tricks to manipulate is a slippery slope. Supermarkets do it but at the end of the day there's benefit to the victim, us, too. With PUA there's questionable benefit to the women imho.
Its interesting that you have turned this into a controversy.
I myself, sadly, have seen too many male victims.
I myself, sadly, have seen too many male victims.
Suicide is a terrible thing no matter who carries it out. It can be very clinical and very well thought through. I had a friend who did that and it wasn't a cry for help but very determined. A very clever person who had given no clue they were suffering.
As to controversy, it wasn't me who first brought some controversial personalities into this thread, I was reacting to what was said. If that is wrong then perhaps this thread had already moved that way and we all should have moved back to the original topic. I'm as guilty as anyone on here at reacting to things i disagree with.
As to controversy, it wasn't me who first brought some controversial personalities into this thread, I was reacting to what was said. If that is wrong then perhaps this thread had already moved that way and we all should have moved back to the original topic. I'm as guilty as anyone on here at reacting to things i disagree with.
And what does that tell us? ( edit - That sounded combative - what I mean is what do we think maybe the reasoning behind that?? what makes the difference so significant ? )
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That when a male makes the decision there is less time to de-escalate the crisis. Associated with that statistic is the fact that a male is less likely to announce the decision - they are more inclined to silently make the decision and carry it out.
This makes preventing male suicide more difficult and highlights the need to do something to stop them getting in that situation in the first place.
You know what, I don't know.
I'm sure it could easily be found.
Yes - sorry Wander , I did edit my original post in case it sounded less than supportive . But I think you're right. I've lost two colleagues to suicide - Personally I've come close to it myself Twice I would say when I was going through a bad period in my life.
I think as a society we are getting better about talking about mental and emotional health more openly - slowly , but moving in the right direction.
Such things as Andysman club at least offer guys an opportunity to share , de-escalate and bond with guys going through the same thing or at least can support them.
Find your nearest group
Find your nearest Andy’s man club. We have over 100 free support groups nationwide, running every Monday from 7PM except bank holidays.
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I don't know what the answer long term is - I'm not so sure if societal expectations are to be held accountable as what is intrinsically held within a Mans DNA itself.
It would be interesting ( maybe !! ) to study which countries have the best and worst suicide rates and see what maybe the issues really are.
Finland I think is quoted as being the happiest country in the world ( go figure !! ) but equally they still have a suicide rate of 15 per 100 000 in 2019
Finland Suicide Rate 2000-2023
Suicide mortality rate is the number of suicide deaths in a year per 100,000 population. Crude suicide rate (not age-adjusted).
www.macrotrends.net
Not sure what to make of any of it apart from I know its a waste , I know why people can get to that position in life and I know I will always make time to sit and listen with a person if they want to talk it out.
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