Fear

[cbr6fs]

Interestingly, I don't think this is true. Further to the expert accounts of grizzly behaviour I've seen video footage of people stumbling across a grizzly - a yell and a thrown walking pole sent the grizzly running for cover, defecating with fear as it went. In fact the cause of the distinct fear of humans that grizzlies exhibit is an interesting area of debate, because as you point out, they are massive, strong and resilient, so you wouldn't expect them to fear much at all.

One must be careful not to draw conclusions about individual animals or specific situations, of course. One must also account for human behaviour in encounters, too, as a fearful reaction from the human may elicit an aggressive or curious response, or stimulate hunting instincts - and most people are going to respond with fear when encountering a bear.

My understanding is that black bear attacks tend to be stalking/hunting based, but brown bear attacks on humans tend to be territorial in nature.

Dunno so much, this on seems pretty intent on stalking

[video=youtube;9Ik_1SSsoA8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ik_1SSsoA8[/video]

 

[cbr6fs]

This is the one that gets me though

[video=youtube;SLMa5-n2OVc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLMa5-n2OVc[/video]

 

[tsitenha]

I am aware of what is around me when sleeping in the bush, that being said I am also aware at home, the night sounds that don't belong.
I am very relax, I sleep soundly, till I need to be alert. Hard to explain, just part of my nature.

Plus a diet of pickled eggs and beer, makes an effective screen

 

[Goatboy]

I recall the words of master Chiun who summed it up nicely here. Bear's are of course a rarity here in Wales and the dragons are friendly so long as one can say hello to them in Welsh, Badgers however deserve serious respect.

Strewth Bishop! Another "Destroyer" Fan, must be an age thing. We'd better watch out or Nuihc may come after us. Or the indestructible "Mr Gordons". (Or did you just see the movie and not read all the books?

 

[TarHeelBrit]

I am aware of what is around me when sleeping in the bush, that being said I am also aware at home, the night sounds that don't belong.
I am very relax, I sleep soundly, till I need to be alert. Hard to explain, just part of my nature.

Plus a diet of pickled eggs and beer, makes an effective screen

I wasn't aware bioological weapons were allowed.

I'm the same as you I sleep soundly until my brain hears a sound that doesn't belong there. One of my first overnighters I camped by the Medway and fell fast asleep until a bunch of yahoos on a cabin cruiser came up stream making enough noise to wake the dead. Brain thought, in the woods...humans making a racket...not a wood sound....ALERT!!.

 

[General Strike]

Dunno so much, this on seems pretty intent on stalking

[video=youtube;9Ik_1SSsoA8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ik_1SSsoA8[/video]

Encountering bears is one of the things that keeps me from heading into the US wilds. I have an irrational fear of it - much like many people do with regards to sharks. That looks more like inquisitiveness to me, & the way that it's put off each time he shouts clearly shows that it's nervous of people. I imagine curiosity could lead to dinner quite easily! But maybe it just really wants the guy's stick?

 

[cbr6fs]

Encountering bears is one of the things that keeps me from heading into the US wilds. I have an irrational fear of it - much like many people do with regards to sharks. That looks more like inquisitiveness to me, & the way that it's put off each time he shouts clearly shows that it's nervous of people. I imagine curiosity could lead to dinner quite easily! But maybe it just really wants the guy's stick?

No reported bear or wolf attacks in Greece, at least in the recent past so it's not really a direct comparison to the US in either quantities or incidents.

I can honestly say it has never stopped me though, i still believe it's riskier driving to the start of the hike than it is hiking, bears/wolves included.

I can understand why someone would be nervous though, as if a bear is determined it wants to take a taste of you there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
It can run faster, is stronger, can swim better and for some bears at least climb better, with a shark if you have enough notice you can get out of the water, with a dog you could climb a tree and render it useless.

The guy in the MTB vid got the shock of his life, but it was quick and done with, the guy being stalked is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse IMO.
What a mind screw that must have psychologically speaking, the guy has that stick but it's more for piece of mind than anything else, can't see it stopping that bear, so he has to keep walking knowing he is absolutely defenceless against the bear IF it wants him.

Bears though are a quick reminder that in some areas we are not the highest creature on the food chain.


Odd thing with animals though, their threat perception is very weird.
We go to a dog park and the is a absolutely huggeee Dogo Argentino, owners recons it's 50kg which is about the same weight as my Mrs
The dog came up to my 5kg Jack Russell and they started playing, because the Dogo Argentino's paws weigh nearly as much as my dog it tended to play a bit to rough for Bella, so she snarled and nipped it on it's back legs.
This dog that was 10x the size of Bella shot across the park yelping like it's tail was on fire, every time they've met since it greats Bella by rolling on it's back.

For wild animals i recon that threat perception is even stronger, as if they get even a slight injury there is a good chance it'll kill it over time as it won't be able to hunt effectively.
So if the bear, wolf, yote etc isn't hungry or feels it's young ones aren't threatened, or it isn't backed into a corner, i recon a bit of a show of force would scare most off.

For me it comes down to weighing the advantages and disadvantages.
The chances of getting attacked by a bear in most areas is extremely slim, the chances of having a fantastic time while out hiking/camping though is extremely high.

 

[santaman2000]

Encountering bears is one of the things that keeps me from heading into the US wilds. I have an irrational fear of it - much like many people do with regards to sharks. That looks more like inquisitiveness to me, & the way that it's put off each time he shouts clearly shows that it's nervous of people. I imagine curiosity could lead to dinner quite easily! But maybe it just really wants the guy's stick?

I was wondering if the bear was actually after the hiker myself. He may have smelled the hiker's lunch instead. That said, not all attacks here happen in "the wilds." As I said earlier, there've been at least two here in the western panhandle in residential areas in the last year or so.

 

[Haggis]

We have large populations of both black bears and timber wolves here in Northern Minnesota. We also have coyotes, bobcats, lynx, and the odd cougar. I am more concerned about sleeping on the hard cold ground than being pestered by an animal while I sleep.

"The All-Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing."
Herger the Joyous, 13th Warrior

 

[tsitenha]

+1 Haggis: Seh:goh Tsitenha/Hi hoke tah, yonkyats
General Strike don't let the fact that bears and other critters live in the bush keep you out.
There is no guaranty that you will see one and that otherwise you might want your money back
cbr6fs those are not bear attacks, the first video was of a young black bear in a cinnamon phase, all he had to do was to stop his shrieking, stop his movement make himself look as big as possible. Bear spray is a wise idea, just in case. Buy 2 use one in a clearing off trail to get used to it.
Bear was just curious, and intrigued with all that noise: must be a party going on
Second video again no charge, just curiosity, bear spray again would be a good idea, wait till the animal is close so you don't waste the can with no effect.
There is a reason why news carry these occurrences they are very rare..........

 

[cottonwoodroot]

Hello All,
Thanks for all the replies. I thought I would add one more question. Do you think we can bring trouble upon ourselves if we overtly demonstrate fear? I have already mentioned the old fellow who slept in the bush, no fire, no tent, no sleeping bag, no fear, no trouble for 40 years. On the other hand, in one of our parks, there was a married couple who were hiking a trail and saw a bear in the distance. It wasn't close enough to be an immediate danger, however, the couple experienced a great deal of fear and anxiety. They decided to lay down and play dead, following advice they had read. The hope was that the bear would go away. It didn't, and the wife lost her life.
I guess in a roundabout way, the question is, can animals sense fear?

 

[Haggis]

As long as one is alive, there is a chance one will die, but it seems that those who are most afraid of death run most headlong at it.

 

[cbr6fs]

Hello All,
Thanks for all the replies. I thought I would add one more question. Do you think we can bring trouble upon ourselves if we overtly demonstrate fear? I have already mentioned the old fellow who slept in the bush, no fire, no tent, no sleeping bag, no fear, no trouble for 40 years. On the other hand, in one of our parks, there was a married couple who were hiking a trail and saw a bear in the distance. It wasn't close enough to be an immediate danger, however, the couple experienced a great deal of fear and anxiety. They decided to lay down and play dead, following advice they had read. The hope was that the bear would go away. It didn't, and the wife lost her life.
I guess in a roundabout way, the question is, can animals sense fear?

Impossible to answer i recon.

On one hand growing up in some very rough areas i know that if you walk past a gang and you look down they'll see you as a victim, if you walk past looking confident then you are less likely to get picked out.

It's the same with animals, if they sense you are afraid they are more likely to attack in some scenarios.


For things like falling off a cliff, my opinion is that being extremely tired is more of a risk than being fearful.


Fear is something we all feel on a daily basis, be it fear of losing our loved ones, fear that we are taking a corner to fast or fear of losing our jobs.
It's not always a bad thing, fear lets us appreciate our lives and what we have, we can also use it to sure up our defences and give us a bit more security in life, be that putting some money aside for fear of losing our job or wearing a seatbelt in our cars.

In my opinion it starts to get bad when people have no context in which to evaluate that fear.
As an example, you might take someone on a nice ridge walk, but being fearful they get frightened and just sit down and refuse to move in fear of their lives.
If this person was to spend a night on that ledge then they would have some context of the possible options and see facing their fear of the ledge is not THAT bad in comparison to the other options.


It's a similar thought process that most of us experience when we've been absolutely exhausted in the middle of nowhere.
Part of us thinks we can't go on and that we should just sit down, the other more logical part of our brain knows that we need to push on as no one is going to come and fetch us if we sit down, plus if we sit down we'll still need to cover the same terrain and distance.

Some folks do not have that ability to just switch off when they're exhausted and plough on, just like some folks are not able to suppress their fears and move past them.

I wouldn't say one group is any more at risk than the other, the fact that the "do'ers" take more risks than the "do not'ers" pretty much cancels out any risks the "do not'ers" might create by panicking.

For me personally though i can't imagine how people live their lives letting fear control them, i'd sooner live 10 years less and do what i want, rather than let fear control my life.

I am a bit of a adrenalin and speed junky though so my opinion might be a bit over to the "do'ers" side.

 

[Shinken]

Come to the uk and try it, we dont really have anything that will bother us here.

I have struggled on occasion to sleep out normally because of being bitten. If im in a mosquito net then no problems personally.

 

[Shinken]

We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Easier said than done but i think fears actually fairly pointless. What can you do with fear that you cant do without it. Some say the fight or flight responce, but to be honest when i was a lad i ran away when scared and it was the most tiring thing ive ever done. I used to run cross country and i could run far better when not scared.

So in conclusion i personally think its of no value, but again easier said than done

 

[santaman2000]

 

[backpacker]

Hello All,
Thanks for all the replies. I thought I would add one more question. Do you think we can bring trouble upon ourselves if we overtly demonstrate fear? I have already mentioned the old fellow who slept in the bush, no fire, no tent, no sleeping bag, no fear, no trouble for 40 years. On the other hand, in one of our parks, there was a married couple who were hiking a trail and saw a bear in the distance. It wasn't close enough to be an immediate danger, however, the couple experienced a great deal of fear and anxiety. They decided to lay down and play dead, following advice they had read. The hope was that the bear would go away. It didn't, and the wife lost her life.
I guess in a roundabout way, the question is, can animals sense fear?

With the old fellow living rough for 40 years, I would imagine he was fearful of what could happen sleeping rough but after a time it probably became normal therefore losing the fear factor, as for myself my first wild camp many years ago on Dartmoor although there was two of us we both felt fear of the dark especially when you hear noises and all the stories that we have heard about Dartmoor, your mind runs away with you and you end up laying there listening, since then over the years I have been wild camping on my own and I'm not as bad but when you are in an unknown area I will always be very alert.

As for animals to sense fear? I think animals do sense fear especially dogs they can definatley react when they see someone who looks scared they tend to go into hunting mode and will normally bark and growl then they usually attack with serious outcomes, cats domestic and wild do the same I'm no 'Dr Dolittle' it's just there natural instinct to react. as for the Bear Attack I think that was just unlucky, they would probably would have been better to keep walking away and making a lot of noise which could have seen a better outcome to the situation, who knows? the worst thing to do is to run as that shows real fear and I think animals pick up on that as they class you as prey trying to get away? One thing for sure I think everyone has a fear of some sort??

Dave

 

[Goatboy]

We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Easier said than done but i think fears actually fairly pointless. What can you do with fear that you cant do without it. Some say the fight or flight responce, but to be honest when i was a lad i ran away when scared and it was the most tiring thing ive ever done. I used to run cross country and i could run far better when not scared.

So in conclusion i personally think its of no value, but again easier said than done

I don't know, I think fear is pretty important, in both evolutionary and everyday life terms. It was built in to us so that we would avoid situations and things that may do us harm or kill us. We have a relatively slow birth rate so cannot afford the "cannon fodder" approach that some animals adopt. What's important is how we react to fear and the ability to rationalise it and deal with the problem. In a lot of ways it can be beneficial if dealt with properly.

 

[Haggis]

I thought of this thread all day yesterday. We had had a wind and lightening storm here Monday night, with winds reaching 70 mile per hour. Trees were down everywhere. I would dare suppose that if there is anything to fear in the dark, it is being in the forest, in the pitch black, with lightening striking very near, the wind snapping off great limbs, and pushing over very large trees. Even then, to let that fear keep me hiding in a hole will not save me from dying or being harmed, it will only keep me from living.

 

[Shinken]

I don't know, I think fear is pretty important, in both evolutionary and everyday life terms. It was built in to us so that we would avoid situations and things that may do us harm or kill us. We have a relatively slow birth rate so cannot afford the "cannon fodder" approach that some animals adopt. What's important is how we react to fear and the ability to rationalise it and deal with the problem. In a lot of ways it can be beneficial if dealt with properly.

[FONT=&quot]I suppose it depends on what you believe. Do you mean evolutionary as in evolved by random improvements being beneficial or by design? I’d imagine the latter you also said " It was built in" and "that some animals adopt"

Its an important distinction because if its random beneficial improvements meaning it’s there because it helped us survive (therefore surviving itself) then it would be really important to keep it. if we have evolved past it and no longer need it then we should expect people through generations to lose the fear.

If however we are designed (via evolution or outright creation) then in the outright creation method it might be that we can resist it because of the negative things it brings to us (if indeed it is negative)

Personally as of yet I have failed to observe it having a positive effect on me or anyone else that could not have been done better without fear (through rational means)

This (fudoshin) immovable heart is the same thing you need to score a penalty or pass you driving test. You fear missing when taking a penalty so you get nervous, resulting in rushing it, not relaxing and missing.

control of that rear will result in you getting closer to the ability you show in training for the penalty or practising the driving test. your legs don’t shake in driving practice because you have no fear of failing but as soon as the test comes along?

We might say that fear of failing will help us try harder to not fail? I say try harder because it’s important not because to you fear to fail.

This of course is easier said than done and only my viewpoint from what I have observed, others may differ [/FONT]