Possession of an Offensive Weapon.

[blacktimberwolf]

Not really... Implies unlawful entry (ooer...). I think that unless they had permission to be there & there was a physical barrier preventing other people entering then you might be right. I'm no legal expert, mind

Since they didn't appear to be stealth camping & were having a large fire I assumed they were on private land with permission, if I'm wrong then lets add illegal wild camping ,willful damage & armed trespass to the charges

 

[mountainm]

Last night a group of lads camped in my woods, they lit a big fire and burnt my logs. One of them had a big Bowie knife, scary looking thing. They were up until 5am, I have no idea what they were up to - but as they didn't ask my permission I could only think it was "no good". When I called the police and tried to get them moved on they seemed confused. The police woman that came out though was very brave, facing down 6 lads and she soon had them out of my hair. Well done!

 

[Retired Member southey]

Last night a group of lads camped in my woods, they lit a big fire and burnt my logs. One of them had a big Bowie knife, scary looking thing. They were up until 5am, I have no idea what they were up to - but as they didn't ask my permission I could only think it was "no good". When I called the police and tried to get them moved on they seemed confused. The police woman that came out though was very brave, facing down 6 lads and she soon had them out of my hair. Well done!

Yup, Good result! ere one of those scoundrels is posting on this very board!

 

[spandit]

They weren't eating pistachios were they?

 

[Retired Member southey]

No I'm saying that processing large wood into small wood whilst camping is good enough reason to carry a knife for that task.

Are you saying that all cutting activities associated with wild camping and bushcraft can and should be carried out with a non locking knife with a 3 inch blade or a saw?

The lads here got themselves in trouble with the law because they went and made a bit of a nuisance of themselves and someone called it in. There's not much more to it.


Sent from my iToaster using Tapatalk

what im saying is that you made a choice, to have a fire, to make that fire from wood that needed to be processed and you choose to use sharps to do it, not for your work, for fun, I personally don't think its a good reason, Dont get me wrong, I take sharps with my when i go out to play, but I am not operating under and silly illusion that im some how justified in what im doing or exercising some given right to carry knife, but then i don't take anything other than a penknife and and a saw when I've been out walking for a few days passing through peoples land or through towns, not because its more legal but because its perceived(by me) to be less intrusive, that's my choice and my opinion,

 

[Prawnster]

what im saying is that you made a choice, to have a fire, to make that fire from wood that needed to be processed and you choose to use sharps to do it, not for your work, for fun, I personally don't think its a good reason, Dont get me wrong, I take sharps with my when i go out to play, but I am not operating under and silly illusion that im some how justified in what im doing or exercising some given right to carry knife, but then i don't take anything other than a penknife and and a saw when I've been out walking for a few days passing through peoples land or through towns, not because its more legal but because its perceived(by me) to be less intrusive, that's my choice and my opinion,

Of course you're entitled to your opinion and to carry whatever sharps you wish.
But...you stated that you maintain that camping is not a good reason for carrying a knife. I disagree. It is exactly for reasons like this that there is an allowance in the law. It isn't essential to go fishing, it's for fun. An angler carries a knife to clean fish, cut line etc and he's perfectly entitled to do so. What's the difference with camping?

Maybe I'm reading you wrong but you seem to be saying that no reason for carrying a knife is good enough. In that case what's the point of the allowance in the law?


Sent from my iToaster using Tapatalk

 

[FGYT]

i don't take anything other than a penknife and and a saw

Note :- a Saw is in violation of S139 if you have no good reason same as a large or locking or fixed knife its a Sharply pointed ( multi pointed) bladed artical and isn't a folding pocket knife under 3" cutting edge so has no exemption under S139.


ATB

Duncan

 

[Retired Member southey]

Yup, didnt say it was exempt or anything, just that its more acceptable in my opinion

 

[Retired Member southey]

Of course you're entitled to your opinion and to carry whatever sharps you wish.
But...you stated that you maintain that camping is not a good reason for carrying a knife. I disagree. It is exactly for reasons like this that there is an allowance in the law. It isn't essential to go fishing, it's for fun. An angler carries a knife to clean fish, cut line etc and he's perfectly entitled to do so. What's the difference with camping?

Maybe I'm reading you wrong but you seem to be saying that no reason for carrying a knife is good enough. In that case what's the point of the allowance in the law?


Sent from my iToaster using Tapatalk

what size and style of knife is absolutely acceptable for hobby fishing? IMO the allowance is for work related reasons not hobby related reasons

 

[Ivan...]

I have had one occasion where the police came to a camp and this is what happened , Adam and I gained permission to camp in a wood , we turned up and because the wood was very dense and we were expecting 2 more to join us , we did not venture in very far ( first mistake ) so we set up tarps , lit a fire and got grub on the go .

Several dogwalkers later , i heard one on the phone to the police , right , so as not to drag this out , about half an hour later two traffic cops approached our camp very cautiously , announcing their arrival with a " allright lads ? " we did look a little surprised , next question from cop1 ( the old wise one ) was " are you armed ? " ( i cant be bothered with punctuation etc ) no i said , cop1 what exactly are you boys doing ? , bushcrafting i said , ( at this point , hand on baton ! i was lead away with cop1 and Adam was lead a short distance from me , by cop 2 ( teenager )

Whats bushcrafting , says cop1 , i said you know Ray Mears , OH yeah he says . then all that , ever been in trouble with the police ? no i said , same question asked of Adam .then they took names and addresses , walked out of ear shot for radio confirmation , all ok .

Then more armed questions , air rifles, catapults , No ( unusual ) then he spots my gransfors and mora on my bed , what are those for ? i explained .ok so far .

Then cop1 kicks a black bin liner i had , whats in there ? a pillow i says , HA ! not very Ray Mears is it ?

Mood lightening , asked about drugs , no , then cop1 shouts to warden ( hid in the bushes , and says it ok , over he comes , and says they had had a couple of reports of Army type guys in the woods with knives and axes , so they had to act .

Anyway , we were asked to eat our grub , pack up , put out the fire ( biggest mistake , no no in that wood )and leave we agreed , cops said thankyou for cooperation and left .

Moral of tale , if you are going to camp where you have not established all of the rules , be very discreet , or better still gain full permission or go to an organised meet .

Don't know if my ramblings are relavent , but needed to tell the tale ( again )

I think it was our attitude , that saved any further questioning/searching or knife issues etc

Ivan...

 

[cave_dweller]

2) Your chum may have had 'reasonable excuse' for possession of an offensive weapon but now he has signed a Caution there is no going back.

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. I don't understand what you mean by 'reasonable excuse for possession of an offensive weapon' in this context. You can have 'good reason' for possession of a pointed or bladed article, but that's not the same thing. On the other hand, almost anything can be categorised as an 'offensive weapon' - it depends on intent and situation. A 'points and blades' arrest under sec.139 of the 1988 Criminal Justice Act is very different to an offensive weapons charge.

Something doesn't look right here - an 'offensive weapon' discussion about a knife that is in a sheath, in a bag, in a tent - sounds unlikely to me.

What was the cautioned person actually charged with I wonder?

 

[Prawnster]

what size and style of knife is absolutely acceptable for hobby fishing? IMO the allowance is for work related reasons not hobby related reasons

That may be what your opinion is of the allowance but that isn't what's written in law. There is no stipulation as to whether it's for work or pleasure. If there were then a lot of people, canoeists, sailors, hunters etc would be breaking the law on a regular basis.

What difference does it make regarding style or size of fishing knives? If it's over 3 inches you need a good reason to carry it. Fishing is a good reason as is hunting, camping foraging etc
As long as you are actually engaged in those activities you're within the law to carry a knife. If you keep one on your belt rather than stowed in a bag whilst driving to where you're going or stopping for fuel then you are in violation.


Sent from my iToaster using Tapatalk

 

[FGYT]

what size and style of knife is absolutely acceptable for hobby fishing? IMO the allowance is for work related reasons not hobby related reasons

Subsection 4 gives the general allowance

(4)It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

subsection (5) adds 3 specific areas that automatically carry lawful reason however starts by stating it is not to prejudice the General allowance Subsection 4

(5)Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
(a)for use at work;
(b)for religious reasons; or
(c)as part of any national costume.

Good reason is "Im just taking them to my mates house to show him my new knife"

 

[Retired Member southey]

I have had one occasion where the police came to a camp and this is what happened , Adam and I gained permission to camp in a wood , we turned up and because the wood was very dense and we were expecting 2 more to join us , we did not venture in very far ( first mistake ) so we set up tarps , lit a fire and got grub on the go .

Several dogwalkers later , i heard one on the phone to the police , right , so as not to drag this out , about half an hour later two traffic cops approached our camp very cautiously , announcing their arrival with a " allright lads ? " we did look a little surprised , next question from cop1 ( the old wise one ) was " are you armed ? " ( i cant be bothered with punctuation etc ) no i said , cop1 what exactly are you boys doing ? , bushcrafting i said , ( at this point , hand on baton ! i was lead away with cop1 and Adam was lead a short distance from me , by cop 2 ( teenager )

Whats bushcrafting , says cop1 , i said you know Ray Mears , OH yeah he says . then all that , ever been in trouble with the police ? no i said , same question asked of Adam .then they took names and addresses , walked out of ear shot for radio confirmation , all ok .

Then more armed questions , air rifles, catapults , No ( unusual ) then he spots my gransfors and mora on my bed , what are those for ? i explained .ok so far .

Then cop1 kicks a black bin liner i had , whats in there ? a pillow i says , HA ! not very Ray Mears is it ?

Mood lightening , asked about drugs , no , then cop1 shouts to warden ( hid in the bushes , and says it ok , over he comes , and says they had had a couple of reports of Army type guys in the woods with knives and axes , so they had to act .

Anyway , we were asked to eat our grub , pack up , put out the fire ( biggest mistake , no no in that wood )and leave we agreed , cops said thankyou for cooperation and left .

Moral of tale , if you are going to camp where you have not established all of the rules , be very discreet , or better still gain full permission or go to an organised meet .

Don't know if my ramblings are relavent , but needed to tell the tale ( again )

I think it was our attitude , that saved any further questioning/searching or knife issues etc

Ivan...

I get the point you are making, but did you have permission or not? if so why were you then asked to move on?and why wasn't the warden told?

 

[Retired Member southey]

Subsection 4 gives the general allowance



subsection (5) adds 3 specific areas that automatically carry lawful reason however starts by stating it is not to prejudice the General allowance Subsection 4




Good reason is "Im just taking them to my mates house to show him my new knife"

has that been proven in court?

 

[FGYT]

If you keep one on your belt rather than stowed in a bag whilst driving to where you're going or stopping for fuel then you are in violation.


Sent from my iToaster using Tapatalk

why ?? law does not state how it is to be carried if you have good reason and your car is a public place in law for this purpose so there is no difference in the eyes of the law if its on your person or in your car

they may try you if its in reach of the driver that its being carried for self defense and so an offencive weapon

if your on route to the use of the knife you can stop and get petrol

you cant go home then go out again specifically to get fuel as you now have no reason for the knife regardless of where it is car or pocket


ATB

Duncan

 

[Retired Member southey]

Just wondering if anyone knows of a case where someone has been arrested for a bladed article, taken it to court won,and come out with there knife back?

 

[Ivan...]

I gained verbal , permission by telephone , but did not ask the question about the fire ! ( because i think i knew what the answer would be ) although that was not why the police or warden said we had to leave , i am guessing it was because it was such a popular spot with dogwalkere , they were a bit alarmed , by our dress knives etc , we did not question it we just tidied up and left quietly, did not really want to push it . It was not that much hassle , we had other places to go , just a bummer setting up in the dark ( its a massive company owned wood , i did not get the name of the person that granted me permission, and it was after hours )

 

[FGYT]

has that been proven in court?

I would be happy to take it to court

hell I drive round quite often with a case full of my knives to show people ( i dont leave them in the car in case i bump into some one interested )

why is taking something to show a freind not a legitimate reason

 

[Retired Member southey]

AH, but would you not fall into the defence of, "Honest guv! Its me job! I be a real life cockney cutler your honour!"