Your favourite bushcrafters - past, present, real, mythical

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Zodiak

Settler
Mar 6, 2006
664
8
Kent UK
twisted firestarter said:
For any self respecting bushcrafter it has to be Stig of the Dump
Some say he lives in the dump, others say he lives in a refuse tip but we all know that he is a caveman and we call him "The Stig" :lmao:

Anyway I would vote for Swallows and Amazons, lived in homemade tents on a island, caught fish, cooked over fires, made bows and arrows...
 

oldsoldier

Forager
Jan 29, 2007
239
1
53
MA
Hm...no one mentioned it yet, but Robert Rogers, of Rogers Rangers fame, who pioneered modern small unit warfare. His march into Canada, and subsequent retreat back, was, in a word, monumental. Granted, it was fraught with poor weather, and the odds were stacked against them, but they survived (well, not all of them) to make it back.
Then, of course, we have Daniel Boone, Davey Crockett, Jim Bowie, et al. Even WITH the help of local indians, these guys has a rough time of it in the west. The weather isnt exactly forgiving there.
Also, to the ancient mariners, who braved the unknown, navigating only by stars. To look beyonfd the horizon, and face down everything you've ever been told, without any prior knowledge of how to navigate, that takes some brass ones.
 

dommyracer

Native
May 26, 2006
1,312
7
46
London
Ratel10mm said:
Bushmen is the slang term. They prefer to be called their own name, San.

Really? Didn't think this was the case.

I was of the impression that the name 'San' isn't their own name, but was what they were called by the Khoikoi - 'San' is Nama for 'Stranger' and was more than likely a derogatory term.

A bit like the way that 'Wales' came from the Germanic term 'Walha', meaning 'Stranger'
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
Ratel10mm said:
Yes, Bushmen is the slang term. They prefer to be called their own name, San.

Its not quite that easy

San is not their own name but is instead the term originally used by the Khoekhoen people when referring to other people who spoke the various 'click' languages of the kalahrai area, the name San itself is also considered derogatory by many of these peoples.

there are many blanket names for these people: Khoesaan, Khoekhoen, Khwe, Basarwa, Masarwa, tengyanateng, Kwankhala, Khoikhoi, Kwena, Bushman, Hottentots, San, Soaqua.

all of which are names given to them by other cultural groups, and none of which are actually used by the people they refer to. some are offensive and others are simply deemed to be incorrect.

the people we commonly refer to as 'Bushmen' (a name given by the dutch "Bossiesman") are actually many separate groups with different traditions, customs and languages. they share no common name for themselves and reject being placed under any one label along with other people, who, as far as they are concerned are totally different and don’t even speak the same language!

It would be the same as someone grouping all the people of Europe and North America under one name ignoring cultural and linguistic differences because we look similar.

Grouping peoples under one name because we are not able to tell the difference between the languages they speak and they "all look the same to me" is naturally considered offensive.

It might be more correct to group them by the language they use, such as:

!Kung, Naro, Khwedam, Ju|’hoansi, N|u, ||Anikhwedam, !Xun, Khoekhoegowab!, Hai//om, etc, etc

However, even if you could pronounce the name of the language (the /,!, ||, //) symbols are different 'Click' sounds) its unlikely that many people in the west other than bearded anthropologists would know who or what you were talking about!

Whilst I was in Botswana volunteering for an NGO staffed in the main by Naro. I witnessed an American tourist who had come into the office to ask for information correct one of the staff members she was conversing with they used the term 'Bushmen', saying "you must not call them Bushmen, its very offensive to them"

Since they were dressed in modern clothing and speaking English, the American was seemingly unaware that she was talking to the very people whom she was warning not to offend!

I prefer to use the term 'Bushmen' when writing or talking about these people here in the UK, it is the term I have most frequently heard used by the groups I have had contact with when referring to themselves to English speaking foreigners, and a term that I would personally take as a compliment if it were used by someone to describe my character.

My recommendation if you spend time with 'bushmen' is to simply ask them their name, if you can pronounce it then use that, if not, do your best impression of it! :)
 

Jodie

Native
Aug 25, 2006
1,561
11
54
London
www.google.co.uk
Thanks Stuart - that was really interesting. Do you happen to know if it's pretty
much impossible for westerners to pronounce the click sounds beyond a
certain age or is it a case of some can, some can't? Obviously I can make a
clicking sound but I'm not sure I could embed it within a bit of speech and use
it in a sentence!

Apparently the term click language isn't popular among linguists, which is a
pity as it seemed fairly sensible to me!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_language

I remember watching a programme about whistled language and I have just
got intentionally lost :) over at Wikipedia on throat / overtone singing as well
as some of the click languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtone_singing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ǃKung_language

At the bottom of the second Wikipedia page there's a link to the Global
Recordings Network (note it is an evangelical site which records native
speakers reading biblical texts and makes the audio output available as
part of its outreach missionary work so I'm not sure how acceptable that
link is here on BCUK... ) where you can hear people speaking in all sorts
of different languages. I've just listened to some - didn't have the faintest
idea what they were saying of course :)

Steve Jones (geneticist at UCL) used the rate of change of languages
as a nice example to demonstrate the rate of change of DNA, relating
to evolutionary change (he was talking to a non-scientist audience) and
it was the first time I'd heard of the hypothetical 'language ancestor' of
a number of modern languages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language

It's not something I'm very familiar with or knowledgeable about but the
concept intrigued me - no idea if or how the click languages fit in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_language

Jo
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
Jodie said:
Do you happen to know if it's pretty much impossible for westerners to pronounce the click sounds beyond a
certain age or is it a case of some can, some can't? Obviously I can make a
clicking sound but I'm not sure I could embed it within a bit of speech and use
it in a sentence!

Whilst learning how to perform the various clicks correctly and use them in the middle of words without breaking the flow is a little tricky at first, its certainly possible with a little time, patience and practice.

I have met a number of westerners now who have learnt to speak at least one of the Bushmen languages fluently. All of whom started to learn as adults and each came from a different linguistic background English, French, German and Dutch.

So I would say that if you really wanted to, and you had the opportunity to spend enough time with people who speak it, you can learn any of the bushmen languages at any age.

Jodie said:
It's not something I'm very familiar with or knowledgeable about but the
concept intrigued me - no idea if or how the click languages fit in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_language

Jo

I met an anthropologist who specialised in linguistics once, who to told me that there was a theory that the bushmen languages may have been based on the very first human language, possibly a language that was used before the human form had evolved to the point where we have the full range of vocal sounds we have now and so clicks where used, which have remained in the Bushmen languages. I haven’t looked into it though so I don’t know how widely regarded the theory is.


thanks for all the links, they made for an interesting read
 

dommyracer

Native
May 26, 2006
1,312
7
46
London
Do you happen to know if it's pretty
much impossible for westerners to pronounce the click sounds beyond a
certain age or is it a case of some can, some can't? Obviously I can make a
clicking sound but I'm not sure I could embed it within a bit of speech and use
it in a sentence!

A friend of mine an English father and a Zulu mother. They met while he was working in Africa, and whilst there he learnt to speak Zulu, which includes click consonants. He is in his 60s now and can still speak it. When you hear a conversation in Zulu it sounds impossible, but obviously its not....
 

Diamond Dave

Full Member
Mar 2, 2006
866
200
Ilkeston
For me it has to be "The Admirable Crighton" what Kenneth Moore created on that island was a miracle.......................... :lmao:
 

Moff8

Forager
Jul 19, 2004
202
0
54
Glasgow
Les and the Australian aborigines, I love the stories of some disaster that left 'real' explorers dying of thirst and unable to find food only to be found by a native carrying a spear, atlatl and wearing a loin cloth. I wanted to be that native and have the abiity to live comfortably in my own countryside.
 
matt-w said:
I think Robin Hood has to be up there - living in the woods, off the land, foraging and hunting with a bow. Must have had top primitive firelighting and shelter building skills and to top it off - always wore green :D

So, as the title suggests and for a bit of fun, who are everyone's bushcrafting hero's?
Sargeant Archibald Little of the 13th Somerset Light Infantry and Commandos during WW2 is my number one combat survival hero, who, along with the books and TV programmes of Eddie Mcghee set me on this path. Mega respect to the 'one and only' Robin Hood-England's greatest hero.
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
12
52
Glasgow, Scotland
oldsoldier said:
Hm...no one mentioned it yet, but Robert Rogers, of Rogers Rangers fame, who pioneered modern small unit warfare. His march into Canada, and subsequent retreat back, was, in a word, monumental. Granted, it was fraught with poor weather, and the odds were stacked against them, but they survived (well, not all of them) to make it back.
Then, of course, we have Daniel Boone, Davey Crockett, Jim Bowie, et al. Even WITH the help of local indians, these guys has a rough time of it in the west. The weather isnt exactly forgiving there.
Also, to the ancient mariners, who braved the unknown, navigating only by stars. To look beyonfd the horizon, and face down everything you've ever been told, without any prior knowledge of how to navigate, that takes some brass ones.

Oh yeah! Ray Mears did a really good programme up near the Great Lakes about one of the famous Robert Rogers raids. I really enjoyed that one.
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
12
52
Glasgow, Scotland
Moff8 said:
Les and the Australian aborigines, I love the stories of some disaster that left 'real' explorers dying of thirst and unable to find food only to be found by a native carrying a spear, atlatl and wearing a loin cloth. I wanted to be that native and have the abiity to live comfortably in my own countryside.

I think you'd be a bit cold.
 

Sickboy

Nomad
Sep 12, 2005
422
0
44
London
Another vote for crocodile dundee here, flollowed by the bush tucker man, Lord baden powell and good ole ray mears.
Mick Dundee's at the top because he got the woman aswell as living in the bush, the others i'm not so sure about :D

Good thread this :You_Rock_
 

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