Exactly; it takes a fraction of a second. More than long enough for a knife armed human to "close the gap" of 20 feet. So definitely more than long enough for an angry 600 pound quadruped to cover twice that distance.
Would you buy this gun?
- Thread starter Mesquite
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Exactly; it takes a fraction of a second. More than long enough for a knife armed human to "close the gap" of 20 feet. So definitely more than long enough for an angry 600 pound quadruped to cover twice that distance.
About 10 or 15 years ago I remember reading an article about an experiment in California. As you describe, bears in more populated areas (populated with humans) had little or no fear of man and relocation wasn't working for various reasons. The idea of the experiment was to try to teach the bears fear without actually harming them and it was hoped that by doing so there'd be fewer confrontations.
The means chosen was for Fish and Wildlife officers to drive away problem bears by shooting then with non-lethal ammo (rubber buckshot) Unfortunately I never saw any follow-up articles so I have no idea how well it worked.
The bears at the pistol range were spray painted as problem bears relocated.. Normally it isn't possible to relocate bears here because they wouldn't be in town if they could hold territory somewhere else. Every bit of this valley is "owned" by whatever bear can hold it, already. The point of the story was that it would have been sad if someone was trying to use bear bangers on those and didn't have a backup plan. Back when we were preparing for a large match where people would camp out at that range and bring kids, we sure had a plan for the bears.
Plastic slugs are used to shoot grizzlies in the a$$ in parks like Jasper, and there it seems to move them away from roads and tourists. You can bet that the the gun has more than just plastic slugs for close range... Try that with anything but good natured grizzly bears, or just annoy them, and things will go bad in a hurry. Things change, and while I've never had a problem with grizzlies here, that was when they were few in number and so had few issues with territory. The young ones in the second video were cute, but had to be shot because they couldn't be relocated due to an incredible rise in the grizzly population here - and were not afraid of people. So far things have gone OK, but I am afraid that if the population reaches a critical point that they will become agressive such as in the Bella Coola valley:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=c9424802-57fc-42a0-90fd-5de63e7e65bd&k=75081
Jack Turner is experienced in the outdoors, and according to my ex-wife who lived nearby had just gotten out of his back door when he was mauled. I used to be very scepic about the advice of Gary Shelton, who is in the article, but times and circumstances change. Ten years ago when my grand-daughter lived here for high school, I would never permit her to walk home at night after being with friends, because of bears in town - and we hadn't had any major issues then. Now when black bears are being pushed out by an expanding grizzly population, I'm even more cautious. I'm not so sure I'd be walking out of the bush on trails at night now, despite the fact that I've done so many times in the past, for example.
The majority of your time will be bringing the weapon to ready, chambered or not. The time to operate a pump slide is insignificant.
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Oh, I dunno about that
[video=youtube_share;xXkyEbrqNGw]http://youtu.be/xXkyEbrqNGw[/video]
If y'all want to carry an empty chamber feel free. If you honestly believe it's what the rest of us are doing you're S.O.L.
I have no idea what "sense of security" has to do with it (false or otherwise) You asked why I thought everybody else carried with one in the chamber; I know they do because I know them all. I've known many of them all my life (some 58 years) and I know they carry that way because I know them and watch them load up. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? And what does it have to do with any "sense of security?"
I'm not sure why my carrying on an empty chamber when you all don't makes me particularly SOL,..unless were all out there against each other.
All I know is over MY years traipsing through all kinds of terrain and varying obstacles, seeing people stumble, single-filing up or down steep grades, etc., a loaded (read; chambered) round is just tempting fate.
Hardly SOL, my assessing the situation, coming to bear, chambering/shucking a round, and, if necessary firing, are all done in one fluid movement. I don't need to plant myself, then think about anything, or anything else. When coming to bear is when the shucking starts, by the time I've acquired target, I'm done. No lost time. I carry revolvers on an empty chamber, too. If it's a situation where speed is of the essence I can assure you that piece is cocked as soon as it clears leather: again, in one fluid motion.
I've seen plenty of mechanical devices break down. Times where everything should work fine, but doesn't. I'm not willing to take any chances relying on a small, wear-outable, "I thought it was on", knocked around device between me and having a good supper that night.
Plenty of " empty" or "safetied" firearms have shot folks. I'd say they were SOL.
Not sure what the issue is. Never thought being extra safe would be cause for talk.
All I know is over MY years traipsing through all kinds of terrain and varying obstacles, seeing people stumble, single-filing up or down steep grades, etc., a loaded (read; chambered) round is just tempting fate.
Hardly SOL, my assessing the situation, coming to bear, chambering/shucking a round, and, if necessary firing, are all done in one fluid movement. I don't need to plant myself, then think about anything, or anything else. When coming to bear is when the shucking starts, by the time I've acquired target, I'm done. No lost time. I carry revolvers on an empty chamber, too. If it's a situation where speed is of the essence I can assure you that piece is cocked as soon as it clears leather: again, in one fluid motion.
I've seen plenty of mechanical devices break down. Times where everything should work fine, but doesn't. I'm not willing to take any chances relying on a small, wear-outable, "I thought it was on", knocked around device between me and having a good supper that night.
Plenty of " empty" or "safetied" firearms have shot folks. I'd say they were SOL.
Not sure what the issue is. Never thought being extra safe would be cause for talk.
No. not for the way you yourself carry. Rather for believing that others carry the same way.
I hope that we all quit on whether to carry loaded or unloaded chamber - with relation to others, because it can't end well since we don't know their precise circumstances.
I've said how I usuallly do things and why. At times, though, when things feel bad, then I don't feel bad about carrying loaded chamber. If you've seen seen how fast a grizzly or moose can move, then you might feel differently.
Here's a case in point:
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...+charged+hunters+wife+says/9890319/story.html
As far as I know, no further details have been released.
So two guides and a hunter go in after a wounded grizzly the morning after the night it was shot. One of them gets shot.
You would be forgiven for jumping to the idea that if three people with one of them unfamiliar to the others go out with loaded and safety-off guns, that there might be an accident.
My notion is that if three people go to track a wounded bear, then at least one is going to end up dead from gunshot or mauling. It simply can't be done with three people. As to just why that is and how a bear will ambush you takes some believing. Strategy - or lack of it, and lack of experience killed that guy. I'm figuring that the guide believed the bear to be dead or incapacitated by the next morning and so let the hunter tag along so he could say that he'd gone in after a wounded bear and would be forthcoming with a bigger tip. Similarly I wouldn't like the chances of someone who does this alone.
My simple point is that lack of strategy killed that guy. We all have our methods and strategies, and while we are not likely to even understand other people's we might just learn something new.
I've said how I usuallly do things and why. At times, though, when things feel bad, then I don't feel bad about carrying loaded chamber. If you've seen seen how fast a grizzly or moose can move, then you might feel differently.
Here's a case in point:
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...+charged+hunters+wife+says/9890319/story.html
As far as I know, no further details have been released.
So two guides and a hunter go in after a wounded grizzly the morning after the night it was shot. One of them gets shot.
You would be forgiven for jumping to the idea that if three people with one of them unfamiliar to the others go out with loaded and safety-off guns, that there might be an accident.
My notion is that if three people go to track a wounded bear, then at least one is going to end up dead from gunshot or mauling. It simply can't be done with three people. As to just why that is and how a bear will ambush you takes some believing. Strategy - or lack of it, and lack of experience killed that guy. I'm figuring that the guide believed the bear to be dead or incapacitated by the next morning and so let the hunter tag along so he could say that he'd gone in after a wounded bear and would be forthcoming with a bigger tip. Similarly I wouldn't like the chances of someone who does this alone.
My simple point is that lack of strategy killed that guy. We all have our methods and strategies, and while we are not likely to even understand other people's we might just learn something new.
Were we all to be going after a wounded bear every time we set out, perhaps different considerations could be made regarding strategy.
I've never felt the need for getting the drop on a duck, deer or squirrel before they got me, though.
I've never felt the need for getting the drop on a duck, deer or squirrel before they got me, though.
That's exactly my point.
That's exactly my point.
I got a CZ 453 with set trigger for rabbits and grouse after I gave my Marlin lever to my grandson. It's incredible!
Nevertheless I think that going out for rabbits with the .375 and cast bullets with pistol loads might be better.
That's the problem with retirement, I get all of this loot just for breathing, enough to spoil all my grandkids and great grandkids and even some left over for me on occasion! I just have to keep up the breathing bit. And having 350 grain full loads behind the light load suits me fine! I like bears rather than hate or fear them, but at the end of the day I breathe and so the loves of my life get stuff. Giving up breathing gets really hard when you want to see to see how your youngest great-grand-daughter takes to swimming with mom!
I can show why I consider a .357 magnum a mouse gun. Yep with 158 grain jacketted bullets! As someone who trained with a revolver of course I consider most semi auto's as junk. And then I met a good worked 1911. I've shot one of those fully chamber loaded with only the built in safeties to protect me, from the holster to dropping 50 chickens for a lot of rounds. Back in the day I'd sell my now now deceased buddy revolvers at a low price, and he'd come right back at me with ammo. As in wheeled in on a dolly. Anyway I'm still here with all of my fingers and toes attached..
One day I was shooting pistol with my friend Mark. He's a way better pistol shooter than me having done 40x40 revolver standing, though only 37 or so went down due to his using a .357 S&W 686 mouse gun. Anyway he'd got a .416 Rigby and had shot a grouse and wounded it with light loads. "It's very hard at first!" says I. I've seen so many bad shooters trying to use big guns, but Mark is super with full loads. You always know when someone has seen bad times when they both get a .416 and practise so much with full loads - and are willing to shoot grouse with one despite owning a hugely expensive .22. You better believe he only wounded one grouse ever!
Treasure the day when you can go out after squirrels and rabbits with a .22 and be sure of coming back. Same for ducks with light loads and deer with a .243. Wonderful stuff! I wanted that plus large predators and I got exactly what i wished for. I might not have known exactly what I was wishing for, but watching griz babies is almost as much fun as watching my own kin.
Getting into a loaded/unloaded argument is just so complicated - so let's just leave it.
I'm pretty sure that my calling a .357 a mouse gun is enough provocation...
Were we all to be going after a wounded bear every time we set out, perhaps different considerations could be made regarding strategy.
I've never felt the need for getting the drop on a duck, deer or squirrel before they got me, though.
That's exactly my point.
I got a CZ 453 with set trigger for rabbits and grouse after I gave my Marlin lever to my grandson. It's incredible!
Nevertheless I think that going out for rabbits with the .375 and cast bullets with pistol loads might be better.
That's the problem with retirement, I get all of this loot just for breathing, enough to spoil all my grandkids and great grandkids and even some left over for me on occasion! I just have to keep up the breathing bit. And having 350 grain full loads behind the light load suits me fine! I like bears rather than hate or fear them, but at the end of the day I breathe and so the loves of my life get stuff. Giving up breathing gets really hard when you want to see to see how your youngest great-grand-daughter takes to swimming with mom!
I can show why I consider a .357 magnum a mouse gun. Yep with 158 grain jacketted bullets! As someone who trained with a revolver of course I consider most semi auto's as junk. And then I met a good worked 1911. I've shot one of those fully chamber loaded with only the built in safeties to protect me, from the holster to dropping 50 chickens for a lot of rounds. Back in the day I'd sell my now now deceased buddy revolvers at a low price, and he'd come right back at me with ammo. As in wheeled in on a dolly. Anyway I'm still here with all of my fingers and toes attached..
One day I was shooting pistol with my friend Mark. He's a way better pistol shooter than me having done 40x40 revolver standing, though only 37 or so went down due to his using a .357 S&W 686 mouse gun. Anyway he'd got a .416 Rigby and had shot a grouse and wounded it with light loads. "It's very hard at first!" says I. I've seen so many bad shooters trying to use big guns, but Mark is super with full loads. You always know when someone has seen bad times when they both get a .416 and practise so much with full loads - and are willing to shoot grouse with one despite owning a hugely expensive .22. You better believe he only wounded one grouse ever!
Treasure the day when you can go out after squirrels and rabbits with a .22 and be sure of coming back. Same for ducks with light loads and deer with a .243. Wonderful stuff! I wanted that plus large predators and I got exactly what i wished for. I might not have known exactly what I was wishing for, but watching griz babies is almost as much fun as watching my own kin.
Getting into a loaded/unloaded argument is just so complicated - so let's just leave it.
I'm pretty sure that my calling a .357 a mouse gun is enough provocation...
...I've never felt the need for getting the drop on a duck, deer or squirrel before they got me, though.
None of those critters will still be in range by the time you finish racking a slide.
With my home loads it'll kill anything that walks on this island, especially out of my Marlin
I love the 4" 686. Arguably the finest revolver made, although the python is prettier.
With my home loads it'll kill anything that walks on this island, especially out of my Marlin
I love the 4" 686. Arguably the finest revolver made, although the python is prettier.
To be honest a Python's almost to valuable to shoot anymore.
.....I've never felt the need for getting the drop on a duck, deer or squirrel before they got me, though.
Besides, those are all hunted fromn a stand anyway (technically a "blind" for the ducks) so why would you even worry about "stumbling over the terrain?"
OK, here goes....against my better judgment....
Birds, they're taken on the wing. Shucking noise is negated as they're already on the move.
Deer, well, some folks are happy to sit around and wait. I still hunt, which means I'm stalking.....giving the quarry every possible chance other than just unluckily walking near a tree I'm lazily sitting in.
Squirrel, back to deer.
Rabbits, I hunt with bow or lance/spear (used to be sling also). Walk until they break. If they're running they already know you're there and don't give a hang about the shuck.
Am I to assume you never cross uneven terrain to go sit in a stand or blind?
We can go back and forth all day. The point is that an empty chamber will never accidentally shoot a companion. Can a full chamber make the same argument?
I'm not here to argue. Let it go.
Birds, they're taken on the wing. Shucking noise is negated as they're already on the move.
Deer, well, some folks are happy to sit around and wait. I still hunt, which means I'm stalking.....giving the quarry every possible chance other than just unluckily walking near a tree I'm lazily sitting in.
Squirrel, back to deer.
Rabbits, I hunt with bow or lance/spear (used to be sling also). Walk until they break. If they're running they already know you're there and don't give a hang about the shuck.
Am I to assume you never cross uneven terrain to go sit in a stand or blind?
We can go back and forth all day. The point is that an empty chamber will never accidentally shoot a companion. Can a full chamber make the same argument?
I'm not here to argue. Let it go.
