workshops at the summer bushmoot

[Longstrider]

Only a week to go now guys and gals, and we NEED a timetable* so we know what tools/materials/kit to take, please !

* If not an actual timetable, a list of the workshops that are planned would help.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Only a week to go now guys and gals, and we NEED a timetable* so we know what tools/materials/kit to take, please !

* If not an actual timetable, a list of the workshops that are planned would help.

Yep, I'll second this. Some idea of what's planned would be very useful...

 

[Wayne]

Stuart and Tony.

Does the insurance for the event cover the volunteer instructors for public liability and professional indemnity?

I would hate to see someone financially liable for running a class for the Bushmoot.

Good will is one thing but when peoples lively hoods are a stake one needs to be sure.

 

[Aaron]

Good point Wayne - For those that have paid money it would be good to know what is going on, and for those who have graciously given up their time to teach for nothing I am sure it would be reassuring to know that the appropriate insurance cover is in place to protect them. In an ideal world it shouldnt matter, but unfortunately I find the world that I wake up to each morning less than ideal in many ways......

 

[Wayne]

Stuart. You have found time to argue with the Bearclaw boys once again yet you have failed to answer my question.

Please could you clarify what is a serious question?

WILL THE VOLUNTEER INSTRUCTORS BE COVERED BY BCUK INSURANCE IN THE CASE OF INJURY ETC ETC.



Sorry to be a pain but people deserve to know what they are agreeing to.

I have my own cover professionally but many here will not.

 

[Stuart]

Stuart. You have found time to argue with the Bearclaw boys once again yet you have failed to answer my question.

Please could you clarify what is a serious question?

WILL THE VOLUNTEER INSTRUCTORS BE COVERED BY BCUK INSURANCE IN THE CASE OF INJURY ETC ETC.



to be a pain but people deserve to know what they are agreeing to.

I have my own cover professionally but many here will not.

firstly, I've not argued with anyone, I actually said somthing I thought quite complimentry. I cant prevent people from posting before engaging brain, but I havent responded with any argumentitive response at all, if people want to make much ado about nothing, they can do so all they like.

secondly, what on earth makes you think I am in a position to answer your question wayne?

have you seen the title under my name? It says 'Full member' same as yours, and I am no more able to furnish people with the legal, business or finacial details of BushcraftUK than you are.

even the moderating staff probably couldnt answer this, the only person who can is Tony, and if you can be patient enough to wait untill he is back in the office (Monday or Tuesday I think) I'm sure he will be only too pleased to deal with your polite request.

 

[Wayne]

Stuart. I know your title is full member but I also know that you still have access to the moderator area of the site as you help Tony. Nothing wrong with you having seperate permissions but I have been an active member here long enough to roughly know to score. So please do not bend the truth.

I have no issue with your historic dislike for certain ex members even if some of them are my friends. No one has to like everybody. I objected to you ignoring a direct question whilst finding the time to bicker politely with the membership.

I have not been active on BCUK for sometime in part due to IT issues but mainly the incessant petty arguements brings the whole bushcraft community into disrepute.

BCUK was once a place of sanctuary where members developed friendship and mutual respect. I try to lead by example and was finding it increasingly difficult to avoid these unnecessary debates.

I shall not throw the baby out with the bath water and announce my departure because you get the community you deserve. You cannot bitch from a far. I hope you know me well enough to know that if I have an issue I express it without malice.

 

[Stuart]

I have been an active member here long enough to roughly know to score. So please do not bend the truth.

Wayne, there is no conspiracy here. I am not a moderator, I have no moderating powers, if I don’t like a post I hit the 'report button' like everyone else.

I hold no sway in the moderators area (otherwise I wouldn’t have been yellow carded three weeks ago would I!) and even the moderators are not involved in the business of BushcraftUK outside of this forum section of the website, let alone the financial and legal operations.

I am little more than a very active member, I frequently write for and submit photographs to the magazine and I happen to live just down the road from the Bushmoot site, so I am heavily involved in helping to organise and setup the event. Wherever I can get involved and help out at BCUK, I do. This does not however give me the power to browse the filing cabinets of the BushcraftUK HQ.

I objected to you ignoring a direct question

I'm not ignoring your question Wayne, I am simply powerless to answer you. Like you, I must wait for Tony to return and furnish you with the information you desire.

the incessant petty arguments brings the whole bushcraft community into disrepute.

There is no argument here, or anywhere else. I'm just trying to inform you that I am very S0rry , but I can’t help you.

BCUK was once a place of sanctuary where members developed friendship and mutual respect. I try to lead by example and was finding it increasingly difficult to avoid these unnecessary debates.

the only unnecessary debate is your insistence that I am somehow withholding information from you.

I shall not throw the baby out with the bath water and announce my departure because you get the community you deserve. You cannot bitch from a far. I hope you know me well enough to know that if I have an issue I express it without malice.

wayne you have always come across as a sensible and amiable person, so please understand, your inquiry can only be dealt with by Tony.

If my replies seem somewhat blunt, it is because I am slightly irritated by your insistence that I am somehow deliberately ignoring and deceiving you. IN LARGE BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS (which is the forum equivalent of shouting at me)

If I could in any way assist you, I would, but I can’t.

 

[Wayne]

Stuart.

I accepted that you did not have access to the information I asked for. I objected to originally to you starting the school and instructor thread and ignoring my question.

The original post by you states "we are organising....." This suggests you are actively involved in the preparations for the Moot. I know your local to Tony and the moot and therefore you would be assisting in the preparations.

However you said you were a full member like me that is not the case. You have access to the mod area as a former mod. No problem with that beyond your statement being untrue.

My other comments about arguements and politics was about the forum in general not about this or your other thread.

I am aware of the history behind much of the ill feeling within the bushcraft community.

I am not having ago at anyone beyond my earlier annoyance that you failed to respond to a sensible and politely worded question.

A simple 'Wayne I don't have the information to hand Tony is enjoying a well earnt weekend away but on his return I will bring his attention to your query'. would have prevented this discussion.

 

[Stuart]

I saw your initial post Wayne, but did not reply as I didn’t feel it was my place to do so and I did not have any information to furnish you with.

I apologise if you feel that I should have clarified this position with you.

I expect that Tony will provide you with the information you desire in the next couple of days, I hope you find this satisfactory

 

[Ogri the trog]

Wayne,
Your intial question several posts ago about insurance, is, I am sure, a valid one. Seeing as Tony seems to be the only person who can answer your query, would it not be better to wait until he answers instead of doing your dirty laundry in such a public manner. Tony and Stuart both have a huge amount of work on at this time of the year and I'm sure you do too. Initiating a series of backbiting posts does little for this forum as you pointed out some posts ago.
I for one, still find this entire website a place of sanctuary and try to do all that I can to help out wherever I can, despite being a relative beginner in the field. I have offered to give a demonstration of wild meat preparation, and I care little whether insurance covers the event or not - if people are worried, then they can sit it out. My intention is to pass on a skill, as so many before have passed on to me.

Ogri the trog

 

[Aaron]

Is anyone going to answer Wayne's question about the insurance cover for the practical sessions? It would reassure both those who want to attend the workshops and those who have agreed to teach - personally I would not agree to teach if I was not 100% sure that appropriate public liability insurance cover was in place, alas the times we live in

Thankyou for taking time to answer this query at what must be a busy time for you Tony.

 

[leon-1]

Is anyone going to answer Wayne's question about the insurance cover for the practical sessions? It would reassure both those who want to attend the workshops and those who have agreed to teach - personally I would not agree to teach if I was not 100% sure that appropriate public liability insurance cover was in place, alas the times we live in

Thankyou for taking time to answer this query at what must be a busy time for you Tony.

Many of us have given up our time before without personal or professional indemnity insurance (as you know Wayne), we did it because we wanted to help out others. Effectively what you want puts a lot of people on the spot because if BCUK doesn't cover you, do you or do you not help / instruct. I taught last year, brought down leather, dye's and god knows what else, it didn't come cheap as a personal cost of materials as none of us got paid (when you arrive with £100 of leather and go back with £25 worth), I was lucky a couple of people donated towards the leather that they had used, so I at least came back with £20 to offset the cost.

That was the whole thing with the BCUK Moot, it isn't a course, you are not paying for the skills that many will teach (you are paying for the hire of the site), unless it states that you are paying for an individual thing (flint knapping).

Would you sue a friend for teaching you something???

That's effectively what a lot of the people who are teaching at the moot are, your friends, you may not of met them in the flesh, but you talk to them all the time, possibly more than you do to certain members of your family.

I daresay that Tony has an answer for you, but in the end it is down to the people who are willing to share their knowledge for nothing to help others, if they stop sharing BCUK may as well not exist as that is how it was set up in the first place, "Like minded people sharing knowledge to further their own skill base and to benefit others whether you know them or not".

 

[Aaron]

In response to your reply Leon, I can only say hats off to you and others like you if you are willing to pass on skills and knowledge at your own risk - and expense as it sound (not getting the money back for your materials doesnt seem right). I think the ethos behind the bushmoots in passing on skills and knowledge for nothing is very commenable. However given that I know very few of the people on this site in person, I personally wouldnt be happy teaching others without knowing that the appropriate insurance cover was in place, or unless everyone I was teaching had signed a disclaimer - I personally would never dream of suing anybody in such a situation - I despise this compensation culture- but the point is that sadly there are many who probably would try to. Common sense seems to be a declining virtue these days (including on this forum sometimes).Cheers Aaron

 

[Wayne]

Thank you Leon for your answer. As you and I have given time over the years to teach at Bushmoots I think you will understand that I am not trying to be awkward.

However your understanding of the legal situation is flawed.

I will give a hypothetical situation for you.

A member brings a couple of bows and a boss down to the Moot for people to have a go at Archery having paid to attend the moot.

The member draws the bow and snap the bow breaks sending a large shard of wood and fibre glass tearing through his face and eye. A life changing injury I think you will agree.

Sadly for our customer his job relies on good vision. This he no longer has so he loses his job. Fortunately our customer is a canny man and has taken out mortage protection insurance. He contacts the insurer the insurer wants a report on the circumstances of the accident. The mortage insurer will seek to minimise it's liabilty by pasing the details to their legal team. Before our friend can avoid it difficult questions are being asked. This is out of the control of the injured party, We are not talking about what is right or moral.

Also our customer was a key member of his employers team. The company now faces a material loss whilst trying to replace a key member of staff. These costs they may well seek to recover too. Once again our happy camper has no control over these legal proceedings.


I do not see asking for adequate insurance for the events as a death knell for the moots. People are still free to other tution without charge in the knowledge that in the unlikely event that something goes wrong all bases are covered.

To me this is the essence of good bushcraft proper preperation to prevent an unplanned disaster.

 

[Tony]

Hi All, my apologies for not getting back to you sooner, I’m using someone else’s computer after getting a call saying there was a question on here about insurance.

I’m in a bit of a hurry as I’m sure most of you will appreciate, I’ve skimmed the text and I hope this answer will suffice.

Of course there is insurance cover , doubly in fact as we have arranged cover for the event and activities and there’s cover that goes with the site which covers us. The schools that are coming will of course have their own cover.

I have to say that even though this is a reasonable question I find it surprising that Stuart would be attacked when it has nothing to do with him or anyone else. I’m also very surprised that there would be shouting about being ignored when you Wayne have my mobile number, my home number, my office number and my email address, any of those would have got through to me quicker than posting on the forum on a Friday night when few people are around.

I hadn’t realised you were coming Wayne, it will be great to see you again.

Just so everyone is clear. Yes there is insurance, yes those helping out are covered and yes, it’s going to be a Great Moot

I’m now not around at all as I’m down at the Moot site, see you all there.

 

[Tony]

Only a week to go now guys and gals, and we NEED a timetable* so we know what tools/materials/kit to take, please !

* If not an actual timetable, a list of the workshops that are planned would help.

Ahh, apologies that I’ve not got a timetable up, I’m away from my computer but off the top of my head here’s some of the workshops
Fire - friction, usage etc, Axe use and safety, leatherwork, game prep, carving, sharpening, foraging, fungi, injury treatments (sprained ankles etc), tracking, shelter building, Tarps, Atlatl – making and using, cordage, Tree & Plant ID, Water purification, Hangi prep, Litter pick up on dunes, story telling (hopefully!), flint knapping and there’s a few multi skilled people that are coming haven’t really decided what they want to do. This should give you an idea of what’s generally going on.

Thanks
T

 

[Aaron]

Thankyou Tony - sorry to push the point but it did require some clarification.

 

[Wayne]

Tony thanks for the clarification.

I hope to see you Saturday. You can moan at me then.

best wishes

 

[swyn]

I will do a quick post here to apologise in advance for not being able to help with this Moot, as this clashes with both junior and senior Pony Club camps.

I wish everyone a pleasant time there!

Swyn.