Wool or Ventile

[beachlover]

I am in the market for a new jacket and don't want plastic derivatives that make noise, burn easily and dont repair.
It seems I am looking at ventile or swanndri.
I like to have a few pockets and a hood, tend to run warm and in any case prefer layers if its cold, so the jacket is for wind and wet conditions really.
What are peoples opinions?
At the moment I am looking at something like the country innovations ventile, but also wonder about a swanni mosgiel which would undoubtledy save me a few quid, but looks an odd design and pretty warm and pocketless.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Gary]

For a windproof I would say neither wool nor Ventile - Poly/cotton like a us army M65 or fishtail.

Reasons - Wool (Unless swandri extreme) isnt wind proof enough and Ventile cost way to much.

 

[Neil1]

You have virtually answered your own question - you want a wind/wet proof - Ventile!
A lot depends on where & when intend using it, wool works well in woodland and is great for stalking, but then so does a fleece or pile.
Ventile is a very good windproof and makes a good year-round garment (if you choose the right design). Worn as a shirt in summer and a cover for other layers in the winter.
Ventile can be expensive, but you can purchase it cheaply if you buy seconds grade and make your own (my smock cost me £50 - £35 for ventile - £15 for zips ,buttons & thread).
Country Innovations designs are OK (actually made by Keela in Scotland) but these are "full-on" jacket designs and give little flexibility. A better option IMO would be a wind-shirt design from West-Winds (a nice new model since Snug-Pack took over), Snowsled or another company that someone on here posted about, backed up by a Dutch army Goretex Liner (£15 @ your local surplus store).
Both fabrics are very good, but have different uses, they do work very well together and act like a natural fibre Buffalo System which is a bonus in a cold-wet environment.
Hope this helps.
Neil

 

[greg2935]

I have a west-winds single layer (can't remember what they call it now) which is great for all year round in conjunction with a wooly pully! The only hassle I have with the west-winds design is that the zip only goes half way down so it is a hassle to get on/take off, it was also very expensive, but I have worn it on every walk/hike for the last 5 years and it is still going strong, you also do not have to re-waterproof it!

Greg

 

[bambodoggy]

I've got an old "Survival Aids - Arctic Ranger" Ventile Jacket, it cost a small fortune new but that was almost 15 years ago and it's still fine so I think worth the money. It's double layered and well designed imo.
Only flaw (apart from the price) they have put a draw cord in the waist but not on the hem and I like to tuck my smocks under themselves and tie them tight around my waist so they don't flap around the tops of my legs.

I wear it over my buffalo mountain shirt and if it's really cold then I throw my Swanni shirt on over the buffalo and under the ventile.....

Apart from the fire melt issues (only the odd spark burn that could be stopped by wearing an old shirt over the top) I'd say the best cheaper solution to your problem would be a Buffalo Mountain shirt mate.... have a look at them, they are a good bit of kit.

Phil.

 

[martin]

I've got a Snowsled Classic Smock. I wear it year round, as a shirt in summer and a wind/shower proof top layer in winter. If its really tipping down I use a poncho over the top.
I've got a Swanndri Bushshirt too. This is very warm but not wind proof. Georgina (Her in doors :super: ) put a dozen press studs on the inside so I can alter the length and wear it under my Ventile or keep it long for around the fire at night. It makes an excellent pilow too!

 

[Wink]

Bamboodoggy, how waterproof is your double layer ventile? I'm familiar with the principles and quite keen on the idea of one, but have a nagging doubt that it wouldn't keep the rain out, which after all is quite important! At £275 I am reluctant to gamble. Also, if anyone has any experience of Keela's single layer with "innovation xl" waterproof lining I'd be interested to know how that works... sounds like a version of Paramo's system???

 

[bambodoggy]

Wink, for what it's intended for it's good. I have reproofed it a couple of times and that helps but really it's only shower proof even with the double layer of ventile...in the UK when it rains it tends to realy rain then you need a waterproof not just a shower proof.....I have my old issue dpm gortex at the bottom of my lid pocket on my bergan.

On the other hand, it is an "Arctic Rangers" jacket and up there where it doeasn't rain much it is perfect....I doubt even a blazard would get through provided it didn't melt and thats where correct insulation in layers comes in so the outside of your layers isn't too warm..... (lol....guess who's just reading "Paradise below Zero"... ): ).

All in all a very good jacket but a lot of money.... as I said below I'd advise a buffalo Mountain shirt and an old og army shirt on top to stop spark burns...much cheaper and more shower proof for the british weather.....lol...you'd think I had shares in buffalo (I don't) I just really rate their kit......as warm soaked as when dry and dries best by being worn not hung up.....hard to beat.

 

[beachlover]

It's beginning to look like ventile and the decision to be made now seems to be over the style and maker.
The snowsled smock looks good, but for the price the country innovation could be worn in town / walking the dog ect without my looking a bit too paramilitary. :yikes:
I did have the Survival Aids Arctic Ranger years ago too, but unfortunately it is no longer made.
I spose it's the compromise between woods and stalking, versus town and looking suspicious in the big bro Orwellian world we suffer.
Wish life was simpler, thought that was the point of all this. :?:

 

[beachlover]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.
It's beginning to look like ventile and the decision to be made now seems to be over the style and maker.
The snowsled smock looks good, but for the price the country innovation could be worn in town / walking the dog ect without my looking a bit too paramilitary. :yikes:
I did have the Survival Aids Arctic Ranger years ago too, but unfortunately it is no longer made.
I spose it's the compromise between woods and stalking, versus town and looking suspicious in the big bro Orwellian world we suffer.
Wish life was simpler, thought that was the point of all this. :?:

 

[Ahjno]

For a windproof I would say neither wool nor Ventile - Poly/cotton like a us army M65 or fishtail.

Reasons - Wool (Unless swandri extreme) isnt wind proof enough and Ventile cost way to much.

When you would opt for a Swandri: what would you wear under / over it, to keep dry? (the latter seems more logical ... :?: )

Some sort of GTX / Triple point rainjacket? Or is it possible to Nikwax / Techwash it in order to keep it waterproof / waterresistant??

Cheers!

 

[Hoodoo]

For a windproof I would say neither wool nor Ventile - Poly/cotton like a us army M65 or fishtail.

Reasons - Wool (Unless swandri extreme) isnt wind proof enough and Ventile cost way to much.

Gary, can you treat the M65 with anything to make it more water resistant?

 

[Gary]

Gary, can you treat the M65 with anything to make it more water resistant?

Nikwax TX10 works a treat - it wont make them waterproof (as in Goretex) but it'll make them about as good as your average single layer ventile but with the advantage of drying out in more than half the time.

 

[Gary]

When you would opt for a Swandri: what would you wear under / over it, to keep dry? (the latter seems more logical ... :?: )

Some sort of GTX / Triple point rainjacket? Or is it possible to Nikwax / Techwash it in order to keep it waterproof / waterresistant??

Cheers!

My average layer system is a merino wool t-shirt under a Swanni Ranger shirt in the woods. If the wind picks up or its chilly I will wear my fishtail outer only.

If it rains I wear a poncho over these although in the craft there are usually plenty of things to do in the shelter while you wait out the rain and as such I can honestly say I dont generally worry about getting to wet - a light shower I ingore, wool can handle that, and the polycotton will dry from body heat in no time.

As I say Ventile is a good material but IMO not better than polycotton because any advantages (toughness) is negated by its slow slow dry time. Of all the ventile jackets I have ever owned none have been waterproof unless treated AND the same can be said for my polycotton M65 or fishtail - but the difference here is my fishtail with liner and hood is more versatile and cost me a third of the price of a standard ventile jacket.

Speaking of waterproofs dont mix bushcraft with hill walking - a hill walker who will be on exposed crags ect in strong wind and rain but no working around fires and such would be better off with a sound waterproof jacket and fleece layer combo.

 

[bambodoggy]

Gary, can you treat the M65 with anything to make it more water resistant?

A mate of mine bought a can of spray wax that Barbour make to reproof their wax jackets and used it to spray one of his british army dpm smock....it was a little shiney but did work as waterproofing.....however, it wasn't really very breathable after that.

I guess any cotton proofing wash-in treatment would help though. :wave:

 

[Ahjno]

Speaking of waterproofs dont mix bushcraft with hill walking - a hill walker who will be on exposed crags ect in strong wind and rain but no working around fires and such would be better off with a sound waterproof
jacket and fleece layer combo.

Thanks Gary :biggthump

Was wondering about that (hope to do some hiking in the Highlands ): ): if I could do with the same wardrobe - Looks like I've got some shopping to do :super:

 

[arctic hobo]

You will get windproof wool if you are prepared to buy the best around. I have no experience with Swanndri, but I have a top quality Norwegian sweater that I have found completely windproof in a force 8 gale (haven't been able to test beyond that!).
Oiled wool is waterproof (to an extent, as is gore-tex etc), and all wool absorbs very little water indeed, in terms of sweat.

 

[beachlover]

I have just read the comments again and realise I was asking the wrong question!
What I should have asked was what do I need, rather than I need, but want one of these two, either wool or ventile.
Gary, as ever is the voice of pragmatism :super: and I have gone and "borrowed" a mates M65. Whilst it doesn't fit me well (very little does tho, but that's another topic ), and the hood is cr*p, the jacket itself is perfectly adequate.
So thanks Gary and if I had been brave enough to tell the other half I had intended to spend 200 quid in the first place, I could now tell her I had saved it.
So now I keep quiet and suffer the burning in my pocket........ till I get the next craving :yikes:

 

[falcon]

Wink - I've a Keela single layer ventile jacket which is over 10 years old now. Originally I intended to use it for hillwalking but found it a bit too heavy probably due to too many features. I've since had Bergaus Goretex for hillwalking - they're lighter and totally waterproof unless you pierce the shoulder on a bramble, like I did, hardly a touch but it leaked after that so not particularly good for bushcraft IMO. Soon after buying the Keela I spotted an almost identical jacket at the Midland Game Fair branded by Country Innovation. At that time the sales blurb stated that manufacturers claimed the single layer Ventile would withstand water for 12 hours and the double layer version for 24 hours. I've found the jacket good - on one occasion I was in thunder rain for about an hour and reached home bone dry. Lately, I've experienced some water seepage just above and around the elbow so I should probably try the wash and Nikwax treatment and see if it resolves it. I'd be more than happy to buy another Ventile, and probably will when I need to.