Winter wildcamping - what I need to know?
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Kind of difficult to lay down without doing just that
I meant an all round tight fit. However 2x compressed insulation is still better than 1x compressed insulation
Try sealskin waterproof/windproof gloves, should still have reasonable dexterity (and also rubbery dimple grips fo erm.... grippyness!).
My best advice is plenty of insulation underneath. Ive camped out in the gorms in -6 or so, what kept me chilly and awake was a silly choice of 3/4 length mat - toasty torso, freezing feet!!! A good mat makes all the difference, I've learnt from my mistake.
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I only talk from my own experience, i'm sure it wont hurt for you to try it one night
Redwall is quite correct. The insulating properties of sleeping bags work best when used with minimal clothing on. If you sleep in your clothes then it is your clothes that you rely on to keep you warm, but they do not have the insulating properties of a bag. The result is that the air in your bag is colder than your body temp, basically your climbing into a fridge and zipping it up. If you remove the layers of clothing your body warms the bag and it stays warm. You then have a bag of nice warm air to sleep in. So its either in a bag of warm air semi naked, or fully clothed in a fridge. I know from lots of experience which i will choose. I would advise you to try it before you doubt it
Another good idea i use is to take a couple of the reuseable gel handwarmers. Warm them up 15 mins before you turn in and throw em in your bag, top and bottom. Your bag is heated then before you get in.
Complete tosh.
More layers simply mean more layers of warm air around your body. How on earth does your sleeping bag know what you are wearing? I'd be intrigued to know the answer to that one.
As for the air in the bag being colder than your body temperature and working like a fridge, well, I don't know what to say, it's just nonsense. A fridge works by circulating cold air, in a sleeping bag air does not circulate, but hangs around and warms up. Otherwise on very cold nights you would simply die of hypothermia.
Try it for yourself mate. By wearing clothes you don't give the bag chance to do its job. They are designed to work in a certain way, by trapping heat put out by your body, against your body. Clothing gets in the way of that, not enough air gets out to warm the bag enough for it to do its job, thus greatly reducing the bags efficiency.
Folk are different though, some sleep hot, others cold.
Folk are different though, some sleep hot, others cold.
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jimbo75
Settler
The last chap that doubted my theory came out quite politely. Discarding my theory as complete tosh strikes me as being something of a throbber.
I am not here to rile anybody up and I certainly will not be adding another single post but now that two other people have come out of the woodwork backing up my suggestion I would like you to know that I am quite hurt by your comments. Think about that in future and sleep with all your layers on if you so wish.
I'm a big winter camping fan, I love it
My advice;
Lose the can top gas, even the gas mixtures will let you down in the real cold and thats when you will need it most. Petroleum/meths/wood/remote feed gas are good.
Drink lots of fluid, helps you keep warm.
Hot chocolate is great for preventing sore throats caused by the cold
Don't underestimate how cold it can be in lakeland, -20 does happen up there. Take extra clothing and food til you know your limits.
Watch the vents on tents, windblown snow will hammer through mesh and cover everything. Put a piece of very fine mesh over the vents to cut it down, use a bivi bag in the tent or get a winter tent.
Take a brush to remove snow/frost from you and your kit before getting in.
Batteries die incredibly quickly, take extra.
A thermometer is very useful so you know what temps your kit works to.
Take an insulated cup, normal cups aren't good when the mercury drops.
Take 2 pairs of gloves/mitts. One pair to get wet if needed in snow and one to keep dry.
Change your socks before sleeping. Smell aside(for me), its much warmer.
Your jacket/gilet if done up makes a great lower leg sleeping bag for no extra weight carried and is warm and dry to put on in the morning. It will help you to sleep colder and thus sweat less but keep warm feet.
My advice;
Lose the can top gas, even the gas mixtures will let you down in the real cold and thats when you will need it most. Petroleum/meths/wood/remote feed gas are good.
Drink lots of fluid, helps you keep warm.
Hot chocolate is great for preventing sore throats caused by the cold
Don't underestimate how cold it can be in lakeland, -20 does happen up there. Take extra clothing and food til you know your limits.
Watch the vents on tents, windblown snow will hammer through mesh and cover everything. Put a piece of very fine mesh over the vents to cut it down, use a bivi bag in the tent or get a winter tent.
Take a brush to remove snow/frost from you and your kit before getting in.
Batteries die incredibly quickly, take extra.
A thermometer is very useful so you know what temps your kit works to.
Take an insulated cup, normal cups aren't good when the mercury drops.
Take 2 pairs of gloves/mitts. One pair to get wet if needed in snow and one to keep dry.
Change your socks before sleeping. Smell aside(for me), its much warmer.
Your jacket/gilet if done up makes a great lower leg sleeping bag for no extra weight carried and is warm and dry to put on in the morning. It will help you to sleep colder and thus sweat less but keep warm feet.
I assume I am the polite person? Thanks for that
But afraid to say through experience and testing the theory
I am with Maggot on this one
The whole thing in reality is a crazy idea
Freezing cold out?- Oh i will just take off my nice warm thermally insulated clothes down to my cotton boxer shorts and jump in my sleeping bag
and in the morning put on my frozen clothes
In the words of The Sex Pistols that is Bol6ocks
Get warm and dry and stay that way
I do sleep in my layers regularly =funny enough sometimes because it warms me up
But afraid to say through experience and testing the theory
I am with Maggot on this one
The whole thing in reality is a crazy idea
Freezing cold out?- Oh i will just take off my nice warm thermally insulated clothes down to my cotton boxer shorts and jump in my sleeping bag
and in the morning put on my frozen clothes
In the words of The Sex Pistols that is Bol6ocks
Get warm and dry and stay that way
I do sleep in my layers regularly =funny enough sometimes because it warms me up
Your sleeping bag works how it works. It is not able to take into account what you are wearing. It is an inanimate object. Your sleeping bag will retain warmth generated within, end of. It will not think "Um the person inside me has a jacket and trousers on, I'll react differently and suddenly become a fridge" Obviously, if you have some proof that a sleeping bag does go through this process please tell us. Oh, and what is the point of a sleeping bag liner then? They are an extra layer of insulation, but as they are sleeping bag shaped, do sleeping bags very stupidly not recognise them?
Sleeping bags insulate what is inside them, simple as that.
You'll be telling us next that we should take off our jacket when we go inside or we won't feel the benefit later, or if we go out with wet hair we'll get a cold!
I think perhaps the OP (of the naked sleeping variety) was trying to say that since your clothes are cold, putting them into a sleeping bag will make the sleeping bag cold and because they're insulating your body heat, the bag won't heat up. The amount of air that is trapped in the sleeping bag is greater than that trapped in your clothes so it makes sense to get that warm. By taking your clothes off, you stand the best chance of warming that air
Can a chill cause a cold?
Folklore indicates that chilling such as getting your feet wet in winter and going out with wet hair may cause a common cold but until recently there has been no scientific research to support this idea. Recent research has demonstrated that chilling may cause the onset of common cold symptoms[SUP]5[/SUP]. A study at the Common Cold Centre in Cardiff UK in 2005 took 90 students and chilled their feet in cold water for 20 minutes and showed that the chilled group had twice as many colds over the next 5 days as a control group of 90 students whose feet were not chilled. The authors propose that when colds are circulating in the community some persons carry the virus without symptoms and that chilling the feet causes a constriction of blood vessels in the nose and this inhibits the immune response and defences in the nose and allows the virus to replicate and cause cold symptoms. The chilled person believes they have caught a cold but in fact the virus was already present in the nose but not causing symptoms.
http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/biosi/subsites/cold/commoncold.html#1
it could be a pertinant question to ponder but : is the virus present ?
Careful with your drinking water too, make sure it doesnt freeze. I have had water freeze in the bottle sat just behind me out of the fires gaze. If i am to camp outside of a wood and fire i prefer a tent and if up a big hill in winter a very good tent. Like others say lot of liquids keeps you warm. I also found that a bivy bag inside a tent will not only add warmth but also keep your bag dry from the melting snow/Ice/condensation. Last time i did a very cold one up a hill it looked like this and was about -18
I think the key is lots of fluids and lots of calories, after all if the only source of heat is your self you better keep the engine fueled and running. Stay out of the wind when you can and stay dry including avoiding sweat, adjust your layers to suit your activity. I find it much better and safer to have a buddy in more extreme weather as it helps to keep an eye on each other, also good to buddy up your water and food intake, one drinks both drink even if not needed.
d
I think the key is lots of fluids and lots of calories, after all if the only source of heat is your self you better keep the engine fueled and running. Stay out of the wind when you can and stay dry including avoiding sweat, adjust your layers to suit your activity. I find it much better and safer to have a buddy in more extreme weather as it helps to keep an eye on each other, also good to buddy up your water and food intake, one drinks both drink even if not needed.
d
From Alpkit... Looking at it the other way around, if your clothes are so efficient at keeping you warm, why use a bag.
Remember it doesn't matter how thick and fluffy your sleeping bag is... YOU WARM THE BAG!
http://www.alpkit.com/support/stickies/you-warm-the-bag
I'll have a little play over the winter with a digital thermometer. I want to record some temp's anyways.
Remember it doesn't matter how thick and fluffy your sleeping bag is... YOU WARM THE BAG!
http://www.alpkit.com/support/stickies/you-warm-the-bag
I'll have a little play over the winter with a digital thermometer. I want to record some temp's anyways.
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If your clothes are stopping you warming your bag then that means they're extremely efficient insulators and are doing a good job trapping the warmth against your skin. Any radiant heat that then escapes from your clothes will then warm the bag, any heat that escapes from the bag will then warm the planet. By putting clothes on in your bag you are delaying the planet warming phase. The fact your bag is colder than if you had no clothes on is inconsiquential as the heat is being retained by your clothes against the skin instead. The bag will then warm up slower but you wont notice as you'll be toasty. Energy doesn't just dissapear it has to flow or radiate, insulation slows this process down.
More insulation means slower cooling. Anyone that argues with that may as well go and rewrite the laws of physics. Other factors may come into play depending on your circumstances but no matter how you cut it two effective layers of insulation will ALWAYS be better than one.
Now I really do recommend covering you nose and mouth to keep your breath warmer and therefore keeping your core temperature warmer. It makes a great deal of difference.
I have been cold in my bag, put on my snugpak trousers and then been toasty.
More insulation means slower cooling. Anyone that argues with that may as well go and rewrite the laws of physics. Other factors may come into play depending on your circumstances but no matter how you cut it two effective layers of insulation will ALWAYS be better than one.
Now I really do recommend covering you nose and mouth to keep your breath warmer and therefore keeping your core temperature warmer. It makes a great deal of difference.
I have been cold in my bag, put on my snugpak trousers and then been toasty.
Put simply as I understand it, it is the air trapped in the fibres of your clothing or sleeping bag that provide most of the insulation (being a poor conductor) and your body that provides the heat from metabolism.
If you are wearing so much clothing that it compresses the fibres and therefore squeezes the air out of your bag and your clothing, then they will not work very efficiently.
If there is enough room in your bag system (including your bivi bag if you use one) not to compress that fabric then it will provide better insulation.
A factor that complicates matters is overheating which can add moisture to the system which seriously increases heat loss through conduction.
Another comfort factor is having something cosy to put on in the morning to replace the insulation you lose by getting out of the sleeping bag. This could of course be offset by the increased activity during the day which reduces the effect of this factor.
Both systems have merits; "Yer pays yer money, and yer makes yer choice."
If you are wearing so much clothing that it compresses the fibres and therefore squeezes the air out of your bag and your clothing, then they will not work very efficiently.
If there is enough room in your bag system (including your bivi bag if you use one) not to compress that fabric then it will provide better insulation.
A factor that complicates matters is overheating which can add moisture to the system which seriously increases heat loss through conduction.
Another comfort factor is having something cosy to put on in the morning to replace the insulation you lose by getting out of the sleeping bag. This could of course be offset by the increased activity during the day which reduces the effect of this factor.
Both systems have merits; "Yer pays yer money, and yer makes yer choice."
The problem with that theory is that you lay on half the sleeping bag, thereby squashing all the fibres. To compensate for this we use a sleeping mat to add extra insulation, which everyone agrees is a top idea. When we suggest adding extra insulation to the top of the system, by way of extra clothes, we have posters suggesting the whole thing effectively becomes a fridge! It doesn't of course.
If you are wearing appropriate wicking type underwear, you would never generate enough sweat to cause a moisture problem, unless you were doing something very "vigorous" inside the bag. Just laying there asleep would not cause a problem.
