Wilderness cabin?
- Thread starter bb07
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Wow, shock replies! Many thanks for giving some feedback Inthewilderness. Great to hear from someone living the dream instead of dreaming the life.
Rod Paradise. Thanks. You have it right. It is living a dream. Not for everyone though.
BBo7 It was quite an interesting thread you got going here. I think it safe to say that we all have our own ideas of the perfect place in the woods. We did the tiny house in the woods with outhouse routine for 20 years before we stepped it up a few notches and created our deluxe "shack"
We are surprised that our place hasn't sold too. It's an interesting study in humankind. We've found we have 3 different types of people responding to us. The scammers that want to rip us off, a hand full of people that are serious and the rest are the dreamers that don't have a clue and enjoy kicking the tires. Not to argue on price, but if you price out lake front homes or camps in the US or Canada, our experience is we are a bargain plus fully furnished with all the extras. I get the impression lake front homes in other countries are much cheaper from what comments are here.
Just to clarify on my last post, major breakdowns are the big problem with being this remote. This is in reference to the generator and turbine controller problems that needed outside help. For the most part, we have a large inventory of spare parts and as my Dad would say... I know just enough to be dangerous. You do have to know a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff to live out here. The motto... jack of all trades, master of none applies here. My wife is equally adept at the skills needed for living this lifestyle out here.
We'd be happy to answer any specific questions on the greenhouse and gardens. The greenhouse has two layers of plastic. The inside layer is standard UV stabilized greenhouse plastic. The outside is a greenhouse weave that is somewhat like a clear tarp. It's tough stuff. In early Spring we have cold frames that we set up in the greenhouse so in effect we have a small greenhouse inside of a larger greenhouse. It can get down well below 0 F and we have no problem growing salad greens. We fill a couple 1 gal. milk jugs with hot water and put in the cold frames at night. Then the cold frames are covered overnight with blankets and uncovered during the day. The garden does well because we start much of the garden indoors. You might be able to tell in some of the web pictures how wide our windowsills are. Since our walls are 10 inch thick, our windowsills are about that wide. Perfect for setting plants on. Every window sill is jammed with plants in the Spring. Some things like corn are also started and put in individual pots. Lot of work but the garden is amazing and provides much of our food for at least a year. Sometimes 2 years since my wife cans 100's of jars of stuff.
Thanks folks.
BBo7 It was quite an interesting thread you got going here. I think it safe to say that we all have our own ideas of the perfect place in the woods. We did the tiny house in the woods with outhouse routine for 20 years before we stepped it up a few notches and created our deluxe "shack"
We are surprised that our place hasn't sold too. It's an interesting study in humankind. We've found we have 3 different types of people responding to us. The scammers that want to rip us off, a hand full of people that are serious and the rest are the dreamers that don't have a clue and enjoy kicking the tires. Not to argue on price, but if you price out lake front homes or camps in the US or Canada, our experience is we are a bargain plus fully furnished with all the extras. I get the impression lake front homes in other countries are much cheaper from what comments are here. Just to clarify on my last post, major breakdowns are the big problem with being this remote. This is in reference to the generator and turbine controller problems that needed outside help. For the most part, we have a large inventory of spare parts and as my Dad would say... I know just enough to be dangerous.
You do have to know a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff to live out here. The motto... jack of all trades, master of none applies here. My wife is equally adept at the skills needed for living this lifestyle out here.We'd be happy to answer any specific questions on the greenhouse and gardens. The greenhouse has two layers of plastic. The inside layer is standard UV stabilized greenhouse plastic. The outside is a greenhouse weave that is somewhat like a clear tarp. It's tough stuff. In early Spring we have cold frames that we set up in the greenhouse so in effect we have a small greenhouse inside of a larger greenhouse. It can get down well below 0 F and we have no problem growing salad greens. We fill a couple 1 gal. milk jugs with hot water and put in the cold frames at night. Then the cold frames are covered overnight with blankets and uncovered during the day. The garden does well because we start much of the garden indoors. You might be able to tell in some of the web pictures how wide our windowsills are. Since our walls are 10 inch thick, our windowsills are about that wide. Perfect for setting plants on. Every window sill is jammed with plants in the Spring. Some things like corn are also started and put in individual pots. Lot of work but the garden is amazing and provides much of our food for at least a year. Sometimes 2 years since my wife cans 100's of jars of stuff.
Thanks folks.
I'm guessing that the main difficulty with selling it is that not many people have that kind of cash lying around and need a mortgage in order to pay for it.
Problem with that situation is that in order to pay the mortgage off you need to go to work and its a long commute...
If they have a family they will want to get them to school.
Then the people who have that kind of money lying around are usually getting on a bit in life, have paid off their mortgage and are realising that ageing and failing health might put them in a difficult situation.
In my work as a builder I see a few people who have slowly moved up the housing ladder to a "nice farmhouse in the country" only to discover that stone built farmhouses are almost all damp, cost an absolute fortune to heat and that as they get older the stairs in that farmhouse stairs become a real problem. They get to the point when they can't drive anymore and the public transport facilities are practically non existent.
The price on the place doesn't look bad to me at all, especially when you take into account house prices in the UK. Its just that the remote location does narrow the potential market down a lot.
The fact that its well insulated makes a big difference because it lessens the amount of wood you have to bring in to heat it.
You're looking for someone who's made their money while they are still healthy enough to take on that kind of work and life.
I'd love the place but I'm only a multi-hundredaire and my (rapidly diminishing at the moment) budget won't stretch.
Problem with that situation is that in order to pay the mortgage off you need to go to work and its a long commute...
If they have a family they will want to get them to school.
Then the people who have that kind of money lying around are usually getting on a bit in life, have paid off their mortgage and are realising that ageing and failing health might put them in a difficult situation.
In my work as a builder I see a few people who have slowly moved up the housing ladder to a "nice farmhouse in the country" only to discover that stone built farmhouses are almost all damp, cost an absolute fortune to heat and that as they get older the stairs in that farmhouse stairs become a real problem. They get to the point when they can't drive anymore and the public transport facilities are practically non existent.
The price on the place doesn't look bad to me at all, especially when you take into account house prices in the UK. Its just that the remote location does narrow the potential market down a lot.
The fact that its well insulated makes a big difference because it lessens the amount of wood you have to bring in to heat it.
You're looking for someone who's made their money while they are still healthy enough to take on that kind of work and life.
I'd love the place but I'm only a multi-hundredaire and my (rapidly diminishing at the moment) budget won't stretch.
I was going to post some pictures of our construction. I have a couple images I scanned in and are in my documents folder. Is there any way I can upload my 2 pictures directly from my computer? Thanks.
Disregard previous post. I found the info. I have to upload to a file sharing site. Really don't want to do that. I'll describe things in a followup post.
Rod
Thank you for the offer to upload. I went through the process of uploading to photobucket and did a trial post. It should show up as soon as approved by the moderator. Hopefully it works and we'll go from there. Thanks again.
Thank you for the offer to upload. I went through the process of uploading to photobucket and did a trial post. It should show up as soon as approved by the moderator. Hopefully it works and we'll go from there. Thanks again.
I have no idea where my picture post went from earlier today. I'll try this one more time. Here are the pictures:
Last edited by a moderator:
Sorry to have this over two posts. The previous picture post looks like it worked so the following is some commentary on those pictures.
A well designed , insulated house is needed especially in the climate we live. Coldest here was -57F since we've been here. The house was toasty. I researched construction and didn't like what I saw. The basic idea for a warm house is insulation, minimal thermal bridges between outside and inside and eliminating drafts and air exchange as much as possible.
The first picture shows a few things. Top and bottom wall plates are 2X8. I used two 2X4 butted together to create a 2X8 as a stud. BUT in that butted seam is a 1 1/2 in. wide strip of blue board insulation. Even wood conducts cold (although poorly) and this helps eliminate the direct contact between inside and outside. That 8 inch wall cavity is stuffed with insulation and there is a layer of blue board as added insulation on the inside walls under the paneling.
All windows in the house are triple glaze. One of the best things we did was do a good job of a vapor barrier. Everything was taped at the seams. Outlets and switches on outside walls had plastic inserts made for the purpose and were also taped and sealed. You are basically living in a plastic bag. The house is very tight. There are no drafts and temp is constant regardless of room or corner. Ventilation is necessary. It's nice to be airtight but you still have to breathe. We installed ventilation tubes in the wall upstairs and downstairs. They are a comercial product and allow a homeowner to control the venting of their house very easily.
The second picture tries to show the roof rafters. Normally the roof rafters come down and rest on the top wall plates and tie in to ceiling joists. The weak link in the attic for insulation is right down in the apex where the rafter meets the wall. ( The space right over the walls in the attic) In order to create more space, we put another plate on top of the ceiling joists and then put the roof rafters on that. This isn't my idea. I'm sure some of you know that trick. Then you can stuff insulation in there full thickness and no need to compress it.
The attic has 24 or 30 (can't remember now) inches of insulation. Is it overkill? All depends on the heating and cooling bill you have. Just as it insulates against heat loss, it also insulates against heat in summer. It is amazing how cool the house is when outside temp is 85-90 F. I hope that helps.
Someone made reference to the water heater in one of the pictures on our website. Sort of by design that it is visible. It is not connected as a water heater. It is merely a water tank connected to a water jacket in the cook stove. We could have hidden it in a closet but it is a lot of useful mass. While the stove is running it dissipates heat and at night when the stove is cold, it still throws off some heat into the upstairs.
A well designed , insulated house is needed especially in the climate we live. Coldest here was -57F since we've been here. The house was toasty. I researched construction and didn't like what I saw. The basic idea for a warm house is insulation, minimal thermal bridges between outside and inside and eliminating drafts and air exchange as much as possible.
The first picture shows a few things. Top and bottom wall plates are 2X8. I used two 2X4 butted together to create a 2X8 as a stud. BUT in that butted seam is a 1 1/2 in. wide strip of blue board insulation. Even wood conducts cold (although poorly) and this helps eliminate the direct contact between inside and outside. That 8 inch wall cavity is stuffed with insulation and there is a layer of blue board as added insulation on the inside walls under the paneling.
All windows in the house are triple glaze. One of the best things we did was do a good job of a vapor barrier. Everything was taped at the seams. Outlets and switches on outside walls had plastic inserts made for the purpose and were also taped and sealed. You are basically living in a plastic bag. The house is very tight. There are no drafts and temp is constant regardless of room or corner. Ventilation is necessary. It's nice to be airtight but you still have to breathe. We installed ventilation tubes in the wall upstairs and downstairs. They are a comercial product and allow a homeowner to control the venting of their house very easily.
The second picture tries to show the roof rafters. Normally the roof rafters come down and rest on the top wall plates and tie in to ceiling joists. The weak link in the attic for insulation is right down in the apex where the rafter meets the wall. ( The space right over the walls in the attic) In order to create more space, we put another plate on top of the ceiling joists and then put the roof rafters on that. This isn't my idea. I'm sure some of you know that trick. Then you can stuff insulation in there full thickness and no need to compress it.
The attic has 24 or 30 (can't remember now) inches of insulation. Is it overkill? All depends on the heating and cooling bill you have. Just as it insulates against heat loss, it also insulates against heat in summer. It is amazing how cool the house is when outside temp is 85-90 F. I hope that helps.
Someone made reference to the water heater in one of the pictures on our website. Sort of by design that it is visible. It is not connected as a water heater. It is merely a water tank connected to a water jacket in the cook stove. We could have hidden it in a closet but it is a lot of useful mass. While the stove is running it dissipates heat and at night when the stove is cold, it still throws off some heat into the upstairs.
I hope the house sells for you, and at a decent price
Upfront, it's not one I would be interested in buying, it's just too far from people and family for me, but I do have a question.
Firstly though, from my side of things, being told that two forest fires have gotten so very close to the house is not a selling point, regardless of how well the house withstood the heat/smoke/dust, etc., and your comment about living in a plastic bag isn't a good selling point either.....call it something like 'incredibly well insulated with excellent vapour control '....the folks who'll want this place will also want a kind of 'natural' appeal. It's rural, not rustic though, but plastic bag still puts folks in mind of suffocation.
Lastly, why are you selling up ?
cheers,
Toddy
Upfront, it's not one I would be interested in buying, it's just too far from people and family for me, but I do have a question.
Firstly though, from my side of things, being told that two forest fires have gotten so very close to the house is not a selling point, regardless of how well the house withstood the heat/smoke/dust, etc., and your comment about living in a plastic bag isn't a good selling point either.....call it something like 'incredibly well insulated with excellent vapour control '....the folks who'll want this place will also want a kind of 'natural' appeal. It's rural, not rustic though, but plastic bag still puts folks in mind of suffocation.
Lastly, why are you selling up ?
cheers,
Toddy
Hello Toddy. Your points are well taken. I could and should have used a better term than plastic bag. It is incredibly tight but let me assure all, there are large and plentiful windows so there is no sense of being confined or suffocating. It's actually a description that I've come across on the internet or books somewhere along the line and I passed it on without giving it any thought. Good point though.
As far as forest fires.... we want to be up front and honest with anyone that wants to not only buy our home but anyone with the desire to live in the bush. It's a bit of a sensitive subject to me since I/we have survived several large fires. Every year we read about people being killed in forest fires. We believe most deaths are preventable. We also believe property damage could be minimized with some preparation. Fire is a way of life in the North country and wilderness. There is no way around that fact. If you go into the woods, you assume responsibility for your own safety. There isn't a summer where you don't see a column of smoke somewhere on the horizon. I don't want to scare off people. It's happening not only in the North Canada but in many parts of the United States and other countries. It seems to always be in the news no matter the season. Fires are becoming more prevalent. We can debate why that is but the gist is the fire policies of years ago were to put out fires as soon as possible. Now we have too much fuel and the fires get way out of hand very quickly.
Anybody living in the bush regardless of how remote must have a fire plan. Give yourselves as many outs as possible. Prepare for the worst case scenario. When we moved out here we knew the potential and planned accordingly. Every summer we have a fire pump set up with sprinklers on the house and surrounding area. It has come in handy just in case fire crews can't get here in time. Bottom line is if you live in the North, you will be visited with a fire at some point. It will all burn. It's a natural process. We do not have that worry now. The area sadly was burned over. We are a green oasis and looking out the windows it is still green and beautiful. The risk of a large fire in this area is very low now and it is a much safer situation. The next owners will have very little to worry about in their lifetime. The area is now rejuvenated with a new young forest. Many areas are now lush and thick with a new forest 6- 12 feet high. Animal habitat is outstanding. Plus you don't have enough buckets to pick all the wild blueberries and cranberries. If this thread gets one person out there to get prepared and property saved, it's been well worth the chat. I'm happy to answer any and all questions further. Thanks for the input Toddy.
As far as forest fires.... we want to be up front and honest with anyone that wants to not only buy our home but anyone with the desire to live in the bush. It's a bit of a sensitive subject to me since I/we have survived several large fires. Every year we read about people being killed in forest fires. We believe most deaths are preventable. We also believe property damage could be minimized with some preparation. Fire is a way of life in the North country and wilderness. There is no way around that fact. If you go into the woods, you assume responsibility for your own safety. There isn't a summer where you don't see a column of smoke somewhere on the horizon. I don't want to scare off people. It's happening not only in the North Canada but in many parts of the United States and other countries. It seems to always be in the news no matter the season. Fires are becoming more prevalent. We can debate why that is but the gist is the fire policies of years ago were to put out fires as soon as possible. Now we have too much fuel and the fires get way out of hand very quickly.
Anybody living in the bush regardless of how remote must have a fire plan. Give yourselves as many outs as possible. Prepare for the worst case scenario. When we moved out here we knew the potential and planned accordingly. Every summer we have a fire pump set up with sprinklers on the house and surrounding area. It has come in handy just in case fire crews can't get here in time. Bottom line is if you live in the North, you will be visited with a fire at some point. It will all burn. It's a natural process. We do not have that worry now. The area sadly was burned over. We are a green oasis and looking out the windows it is still green and beautiful. The risk of a large fire in this area is very low now and it is a much safer situation. The next owners will have very little to worry about in their lifetime. The area is now rejuvenated with a new young forest. Many areas are now lush and thick with a new forest 6- 12 feet high. Animal habitat is outstanding. Plus you don't have enough buckets to pick all the wild blueberries and cranberries. If this thread gets one person out there to get prepared and property saved, it's been well worth the chat. I'm happy to answer any and all questions further. Thanks for the input Toddy.
I just want to say thank you for the time and effort you're putting in telling us about your house and lifestyle.
A lot of people are saying your home it too modern and urban for them. For myself I see it as something that gives a person the opportunity to live in a beautiful wilderness in relative comfort. After all there is the bushcraft saying 'if you're not comfortable, you're not doing it right' so why not be as comfortable as you can be
A lot of people are saying your home it too modern and urban for them. For myself I see it as something that gives a person the opportunity to live in a beautiful wilderness in relative comfort. After all there is the bushcraft saying 'if you're not comfortable, you're not doing it right' so why not be as comfortable as you can be
Great home and a great thread ITW. Most people here in the UK don't get the realities of independent living. The realities of living in such cold as you experience in the Winter for months at a time are something they will never have to live with. Personally I think your house is beautiful - "form follows function" and your house clearly functions well .
I guess its inevitable you will get a lot of tyre kickers I don't think many people have the mindset to live as you do - heck we get lots of people looking at our little homestead in the UK and saying "how lovely" at our cast iron range etc. But explain to them whats involved in cutting a winters worth of firewood and they want their mains gas supply back! People want the beauty and the fairy tale - but not the dirt and sweat that goes into building and maintaining it
Having done up our place I can only begin to imagine the skills you must have needed with yours working in those weather extremes and that degree of remoteness - do you have a workshop on site? I can only imagine you must need an extensive one (not to mention a good few racks of parts, lumber, fastenings etc.)? I also guess you must have a reasonable size plot for your garden wood lot etc.?
Anyway, fantastic project and home - I hope you find a new owner worthy of carrying on with your legacy.
Red
. I guess its inevitable you will get a lot of tyre kickers
I don't think many people have the mindset to live as you do - heck we get lots of people looking at our little homestead in the UK and saying "how lovely" at our cast iron range etc. But explain to them whats involved in cutting a winters worth of firewood and they want their mains gas supply back! People want the beauty and the fairy tale - but not the dirt and sweat that goes into building and maintaining itHaving done up our place I can only begin to imagine the skills you must have needed with yours working in those weather extremes and that degree of remoteness - do you have a workshop on site? I can only imagine you must need an extensive one (not to mention a good few racks of parts, lumber, fastenings etc.)? I also guess you must have a reasonable size plot for your garden wood lot etc.?
Anyway, fantastic project and home - I hope you find a new owner worthy of carrying on with your legacy.
Red
We put vapour barriers in modern UK timber framed homes but timber framing is only really catching on recently again after hundreds of years where we hardly did any.
For those unfamiliar with the reasons for vapour barriers they are there to stop vapour making its way through the warm area of the wall and condensing where it then soaks the insulation and timbers.
Then there's usually a breathable membrane on the outside of the panels that lets any that gets through to escape. The OSB covered panels are in effect the inner skin of the build and can be timber clad, brick outer skin or even stone like one I worked on near the centre of Keswick, most people will that that's lovely oldy worldy Lakeland slate that give it its strength.
The slate isn't structural, its just there so the tourists think it looks the same as the real slate built places that are cold, damp, and without a square wall in them
I've worked on quite a few timber framed buildings and would live in one tomorrow over any stone/brick built place. Modern timber framed housing is so much more efficient to heat and faster to build its quite a surprise to people moving into them.
In the US and Canada you seem to have more of a tradition for stick framing (lots of very interesting vids on Youtube where Larry Haun goes through the details of building stick framed homes.) but in the UK we go for panel construction (about ten foot by ten foot being the biggest because any bigger panels on pallets is a problem for haulage widths) where the wall panels are built up in a workshop then erected on site, header plates put on top, ringbeams over the headers give more strength for the floors. Then we put another series of panels on those till we get to whatever height we need.
Not sure how many the maximum allowable number of floors in this construction cos although I've not worked on any above three I know there's higher that I've not worked on.
I suppose panel built (not sure what you call it over there) is more common over here because it rains so much, making the panels up in a workshop means its kept drier till its erected and from putting the soleplates for the ground floor panels to getting the roof timbers on so the roofing felt can be fitted only takes a few days anyway.
After that we have al the time we need to insulate the insides between the panels studs, fit vapour barrier, first fix carpentry, plumbing and electrical then plasterboard and so on.
I live in a brick built house but if I were to build one on a plot for myself I wouldn't be using brick or stone, no chance.
Nor would I be making any log cabin looking contraption either, far too labour intensive and it uses a LOT of timber.
A few years ago I helped a mate build a stick built garage after his other burnt down. Its now far and away more insulated, more draughtproof and drier than the house beside it that he lives in.
The only area of improvement would have been if we had dig the floor out and insulated that as well, he point being that its a garage and doesn't need it. Apart from the cold floor he could call it his spare room and put a bed in it.
Good morning or evening all,
I forgot to answer the why are we selling question. Easy, we've done this kind of stuff for so long our age is starting to show. Time to get a little closer to society. Still want to be as remote as possible though and still be off grid.
Mesquite, British Red.... Thank you for the kind feedback. We're proud of the accomplishment out here. We are quite comfortable. We did the real rustic routine for a long time and this endeavor out here was never meant to be a simple cabin in the woods. We are surrounded by a gazillion acres of nature and we do live in comfort. We have so many hobbies and interests, it never gets boring.
Mention was made of the effort of cutting firewood. We have a never ending supply of firewood. I use to log with a chainsaw and cut thousands of cords of wood in my younger day. Always in a sustainable, selective cut. I had no interest in logging forever which is another reason for a super insulated house. Mostly softwood out here. Pine and spruce. Not the best of firewood. However, between the 2 stoves for a year we burn at the most 8 cord. That heats and cooks since we rarely go a day without a fire.
We do inventory a lot of spare stuff. Including lumber. Lots of food. Anytime we run out of something, it immediately goes on a list. Critical since we can't just run out to a store. Not a big deal though. We each have our own "shop" where we can be on our own and play. My shop is for wood working. I do all woodworking the old fashioned way. No power tools. Hand planes, chisels etc. My wife does needlepoint, knitting, weaving, quilting etc. in her shop.
The garden is large as you can see on the pictures and could be even bigger if we wanted it. What is not shown is the orchard and another large berry patch with all kinds of fruits including strawberries. We generally get well over 100 quarts a year just in strawberries. We love them but even that gets a bit tiring by the end of the season.
Demographic... Timber framing has been a traditional method in the old days and there are still many who do that at least in the US. I was aware of the panels and that is becoming more common over on this continent. I researched it but it was not a feasible idea for our application. Stick framing is still by far the method of building though. I've done a lot of hiking in years past and stayed in some stone huts. Cold and damp is an understatement.
I forgot to answer the why are we selling question. Easy, we've done this kind of stuff for so long our age is starting to show. Time to get a little closer to society. Still want to be as remote as possible though and still be off grid.
Mesquite, British Red.... Thank you for the kind feedback. We're proud of the accomplishment out here. We are quite comfortable. We did the real rustic routine for a long time and this endeavor out here was never meant to be a simple cabin in the woods. We are surrounded by a gazillion acres of nature and we do live in comfort. We have so many hobbies and interests, it never gets boring.
Mention was made of the effort of cutting firewood. We have a never ending supply of firewood. I use to log with a chainsaw and cut thousands of cords of wood in my younger day. Always in a sustainable, selective cut. I had no interest in logging forever which is another reason for a super insulated house. Mostly softwood out here. Pine and spruce. Not the best of firewood. However, between the 2 stoves for a year we burn at the most 8 cord. That heats and cooks since we rarely go a day without a fire.
We do inventory a lot of spare stuff. Including lumber. Lots of food. Anytime we run out of something, it immediately goes on a list. Critical since we can't just run out to a store. Not a big deal though. We each have our own "shop" where we can be on our own and play. My shop is for wood working. I do all woodworking the old fashioned way. No power tools. Hand planes, chisels etc. My wife does needlepoint, knitting, weaving, quilting etc. in her shop.
The garden is large as you can see on the pictures and could be even bigger if we wanted it. What is not shown is the orchard and another large berry patch with all kinds of fruits including strawberries. We generally get well over 100 quarts a year just in strawberries. We love them but even that gets a bit tiring by the end of the season.
Demographic... Timber framing has been a traditional method in the old days and there are still many who do that at least in the US. I was aware of the panels and that is becoming more common over on this continent. I researched it but it was not a feasible idea for our application. Stick framing is still by far the method of building though. I've done a lot of hiking in years past and stayed in some stone huts. Cold and damp is an understatement.
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