Why so anti?
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Wayland said:
For example, there is a huge industry producing outdoor clothing, but most is designed for walking down the high street rather than beating through a forest. When someone asks what the best shirt for bushcraft and sitting round a fire is, although many will actually do the job, most times only one or two brands get recommended.
Naturally enough, there will then be a slightly uniform look at the next meet up, which is seen around the fire and in pictures on the forum by newcomers who then think "If everyone else is wearing them, they must be right."
It's a natural progression and a fairly harmless one providing people do not believe that you need the expensive kit to even take part.
Which, IMHO is a good representation of why some folks have/will become anti as you say.
I am pretty much still an outsider on this forum, but have noticed that certain items of equipment are vastly favoured by a large majority of folks who consider themselves bush-crafters* ( I choose that term carefully). In a capitalist society, this must surely be nonsense, as there will be literally hundreds of choices for most pieces of equipment. As other posters have said, if a knife cuts it is good enough, and almost any shirt will do for walking around the camp fire.
As for the original question "why is everyone so against the good things about the hobby recently?" I am not sure if that is the correct question to ask!
I say that because most folks still like to get outdoors, and to be with nature, but the objects for criticism seem to be branded products, and not what you do with them. In this light, it may be clearer why some people would not want Bear Grylls gear.
From my own limited experience with 'bushcraft kit' (I predominantly design and build lightweight outdoor kit), I did note that while I was employed as a bushcraft/survival instructor, that many civilian students would often think they needed particular brands of equipment, with Gransfors (mentioned in this thread) axes, and maxpedition bags being prime examples.
Perhaps older/bolder bushcrafters see this as jumping on a band wagon, or being sheep like, which could invite negativity!
The problem is further worsened by commercial adverts or 'outdoor schools' who may describe things like mora clipper knifes as starter, or training knives...As far as I am aware there is a certain chap called Mors who quite likes clipper knives, and he is not really often regarded as a novice in bushcraft. So, yet again, this could introduce a stigma, in that many folks want the most expensive knives (as they are perceived as the only ones that work!). Now, folks who know that a sharp knife is pretty much a sharp knife, and that literally billions of people around the world get by perfectly with any old knife, will find it odd or perhaps annoying that something they cherish is no good (despite its history of being perfect).
The above is why I don't understand why the quote "that's really nice, shows there's more to life than Gransfors." is negative.....as its completely true!. There is much more to life than one brand of axe!
It could well be that the folks who only recommend gransfors are the blinkered and negative ones. It would be odd to walk around a 'stilt long hut village' in the Amazon, and see: carvings; canoes; fences and houses, only to tell the occupants that their home made axes (that they have used daily for thousands of years) should really be made by Gransfors.....The evidence to the contrary would be all around you.
I chose the phrase 'people who consider themselves bushcrafters' As I, like many of you have met people from all over the world, who work outdoors daily; make their own equipment; live in the wilderness/jungle; have to catch their own food, and virtually none of them (outside of the UK) would not consider themselves as bush craft people. On the other hand, I have also taught hundreds and hundred of folks who not only considered themselves as bushcrasfters, but made sure their circle of friends knew it too...........Despite only spending one or two nights out (near to habitation) per month, and carrying a vast amount of gear with them.
Maybe it is this last group of outdoor enthusiasts that some are rebelling against or being negative to
For example, there is a huge industry producing outdoor clothing, but most is designed for walking down the high street rather than beating through a forest. When someone asks what the best shirt for bushcraft and sitting round a fire is, although many will actually do the job, most times only one or two brands get recommended.
Naturally enough, there will then be a slightly uniform look at the next meet up, which is seen around the fire and in pictures on the forum by newcomers who then think "If everyone else is wearing them, they must be right."
It's a natural progression and a fairly harmless one providing people do not believe that you need the expensive kit to even take part.
Which, IMHO is a good representation of why some folks have/will become anti as you say.
I am pretty much still an outsider on this forum, but have noticed that certain items of equipment are vastly favoured by a large majority of folks who consider themselves bush-crafters* ( I choose that term carefully). In a capitalist society, this must surely be nonsense, as there will be literally hundreds of choices for most pieces of equipment. As other posters have said, if a knife cuts it is good enough, and almost any shirt will do for walking around the camp fire.
As for the original question "why is everyone so against the good things about the hobby recently?" I am not sure if that is the correct question to ask!
I say that because most folks still like to get outdoors, and to be with nature, but the objects for criticism seem to be branded products, and not what you do with them. In this light, it may be clearer why some people would not want Bear Grylls gear.
From my own limited experience with 'bushcraft kit' (I predominantly design and build lightweight outdoor kit), I did note that while I was employed as a bushcraft/survival instructor, that many civilian students would often think they needed particular brands of equipment, with Gransfors (mentioned in this thread) axes, and maxpedition bags being prime examples.
Perhaps older/bolder bushcrafters see this as jumping on a band wagon, or being sheep like, which could invite negativity!
The problem is further worsened by commercial adverts or 'outdoor schools' who may describe things like mora clipper knifes as starter, or training knives...As far as I am aware there is a certain chap called Mors who quite likes clipper knives, and he is not really often regarded as a novice in bushcraft. So, yet again, this could introduce a stigma, in that many folks want the most expensive knives (as they are perceived as the only ones that work!). Now, folks who know that a sharp knife is pretty much a sharp knife, and that literally billions of people around the world get by perfectly with any old knife, will find it odd or perhaps annoying that something they cherish is no good (despite its history of being perfect).
The above is why I don't understand why the quote "that's really nice, shows there's more to life than Gransfors." is negative.....as its completely true!. There is much more to life than one brand of axe!
It could well be that the folks who only recommend gransfors are the blinkered and negative ones. It would be odd to walk around a 'stilt long hut village' in the Amazon, and see: carvings; canoes; fences and houses, only to tell the occupants that their home made axes (that they have used daily for thousands of years) should really be made by Gransfors.....The evidence to the contrary would be all around you.
I chose the phrase 'people who consider themselves bushcrafters' As I, like many of you have met people from all over the world, who work outdoors daily; make their own equipment; live in the wilderness/jungle; have to catch their own food, and virtually none of them (outside of the UK) would not consider themselves as bush craft people. On the other hand, I have also taught hundreds and hundred of folks who not only considered themselves as bushcrasfters, but made sure their circle of friends knew it too...........Despite only spending one or two nights out (near to habitation) per month, and carrying a vast amount of gear with them.
Maybe it is this last group of outdoor enthusiasts that some are rebelling against or being negative to
Bushcraft covers a wide range of things and isn't an elite title, it is like rambler, walker, or camper. Even those people who get out once a month and whittle a stick whilst watching and enjoying wildlife have every right to call themselves a bushcrafter. It's just a word that encompasses what they like doing when they get a chance. I find those people that look down upon those they call 'back garden bushcrafters', or people that don't get out as much, just as intolerable. People that use next to no kit, are no better than those with tons of it. Good on them, if thats an aspect of camping and bushcrafting that they enjoy. It's down to the individual what kit they like to take with them, and no-one else has a right to tell them it's wrong when they are enjoying themselves and doing no harm to others or the environment.
Bushcraft covers a large umbrella of skills, kit, history, nature, enjoyment, practical learning, reading, meeting like minded people etc etc. What part of that umbrella we choose to sit under, is entirely personal. As is how 'bushcraft' is interpreted from individual to individual. If those people are proud to shout out to the next man that they are bushcrafters, who cares?
As far as I'm concerned, if you feel attuned and comfortable with nature and have a working understanding of the natural world and how we can use it to exist, then you are a bushcrafter before you've walked out the front door. If you go into the wild and practice what you understand, then you become a practical bushcrafter. But it's just a label, and my interpretation. There are a thousand others, and mine will likely change many times over the months and years..
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I too see the "anti" stuff as being mainly aimed at branded goods and can see how some brands gain popularity - "Star endorsement" as well as through items being found in the hands of a lot of folk due to their being available and fit for purpose.
I am a pro gear reviewer, writing for several magazines - so I have chewed my way through loads of gear in my time! - and have also been in the Outdoor Education game since I was 18 (far too many years now) doing all sorts from teaching canoe skills to leading international expeditions - so I have used a lot of gear in a lot of situations - AND I have designed gear for well known "labels", written several DIY gear books......
It is true that there are many "revered items" that folk recognise by name and trust (perhaps with more reputation than is warranted) and a lot of items that no one has realy heard of that those "in the know" trust just as much but those not "in the know" can not trust as much as they have little or no info to base their trust on.
Equally, what suits one users needs may not suit anothers - I for instance have a narrow grip - knives and axes with "fat" handles are no use to me while they may be just what someone with a wide grip needs!
Although I am not a label lover (I unstitched the Swanni label off the shirt I had of theirs as I disliked the look) I do have a lot of gear with recognisable names on them - a Tilley hat, a 5.11 Shirt (watch developments with this label!
) a Ventile jacket (or three...) Tatonka tarp, RM hammock etc etc - but I use these "uniform" items as I have found that they work for me.
Some gear is hyped deliberately by the big names (I am with Wayland on this score) and seems to count on the "star endorsement" to achieve a market prominence, while other items of equal or greater value gets missed.
I am also a big beliver in "DIY" and learning the skills to make your own ...whatever... but can see that this is not a practical route for many.
The "anti" reaction seems to me to stem from folk getting a bit hot under the collar about folk missing out on the lesser known/DIY options due to the prevelence of the hyped and more widely know about items becoming revered as the only real/valid options AND the reverse - folk who trust certain items of kit scorning the lesser known items as not being as good as the items they trust as the best.
Chose what suits your needs (and big it up if you want) but there is no real need to decry other folks choices if they are happy with them
I realy dislike the aesthetics of Kydex sheaths and plastic handles on knives and as I do no comercial hunting as part of my bushcraft, they are not totally needed for my usage so I prefer to use atractive, traditional, germ harbouring, less durable leather and wood - I will say that a knife with plastic and Kydex fittings looks horrible and is not for me BUT it is just what a pro hunter would need so I would not decry his using one...
Try to be nice out there, only knock what is just plain "unfit for perpose" and use "constructive criticism" - if you think that something looks bad then, fine that is your opinion and you have a right to voice it - but remember those bad looks may suit someone elses critical needs....- it is a big world with lots of options not everything will suit everyone, the popular items may only hold their position until the next great find is made and commercial items are out there to make money for people as well as do a job....
I am a pro gear reviewer, writing for several magazines - so I have chewed my way through loads of gear in my time! - and have also been in the Outdoor Education game since I was 18 (far too many years now) doing all sorts from teaching canoe skills to leading international expeditions - so I have used a lot of gear in a lot of situations - AND I have designed gear for well known "labels", written several DIY gear books......
It is true that there are many "revered items" that folk recognise by name and trust (perhaps with more reputation than is warranted) and a lot of items that no one has realy heard of that those "in the know" trust just as much but those not "in the know" can not trust as much as they have little or no info to base their trust on.
Equally, what suits one users needs may not suit anothers - I for instance have a narrow grip - knives and axes with "fat" handles are no use to me while they may be just what someone with a wide grip needs!
Although I am not a label lover (I unstitched the Swanni label off the shirt I had of theirs as I disliked the look) I do have a lot of gear with recognisable names on them - a Tilley hat, a 5.11 Shirt (watch developments with this label!
) a Ventile jacket (or three...) Tatonka tarp, RM hammock etc etc - but I use these "uniform" items as I have found that they work for me.Some gear is hyped deliberately by the big names (I am with Wayland on this score) and seems to count on the "star endorsement" to achieve a market prominence, while other items of equal or greater value gets missed.
I am also a big beliver in "DIY" and learning the skills to make your own ...whatever... but can see that this is not a practical route for many.
The "anti" reaction seems to me to stem from folk getting a bit hot under the collar about folk missing out on the lesser known/DIY options due to the prevelence of the hyped and more widely know about items becoming revered as the only real/valid options AND the reverse - folk who trust certain items of kit scorning the lesser known items as not being as good as the items they trust as the best.
Chose what suits your needs (and big it up if you want) but there is no real need to decry other folks choices if they are happy with them
I realy dislike the aesthetics of Kydex sheaths and plastic handles on knives and as I do no comercial hunting as part of my bushcraft, they are not totally needed for my usage so I prefer to use atractive, traditional, germ harbouring, less durable leather and wood - I will say that a knife with plastic and Kydex fittings looks horrible and is not for me BUT it is just what a pro hunter would need so I would not decry his using one...
Try to be nice out there, only knock what is just plain "unfit for perpose" and use "constructive criticism" - if you think that something looks bad then, fine that is your opinion and you have a right to voice it - but remember those bad looks may suit someone elses critical needs....- it is a big world with lots of options
not everything will suit everyone, the popular items may only hold their position until the next great find is made and commercial items are out there to make money for people as well as do a job....
Well said Mr Fenna. My kit also goes from the madly expensive, to the bargain basement and 'rescued from the bin' items. I keep what works for me and if I find something that is better, and I can. I'll buy it.
I certainly don't need the same knife design in different materials, but I like knives, so I have them. I like the personality that 01 and natural handles have. But I also like hi tech super steels and carbon fibre etc, so I have them too. May be extravagant and pointless to most of you out there, but I don't collect cars, stamps or stoves. That's my thing.
John, you'd hate my knife... it's well fat
I certainly don't need the same knife design in different materials, but I like knives, so I have them. I like the personality that 01 and natural handles have. But I also like hi tech super steels and carbon fibre etc, so I have them too. May be extravagant and pointless to most of you out there, but I don't collect cars, stamps or stoves. That's my thing.
John, you'd hate my knife... it's well fat
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Lots of good common sense posts here
There's only one comment I'd make on kit, and it's that seeing something someone I respect use, makes me look favourably upon it.
By someone I respect, I mean friends, family, folks I've met and a couple who's work I've only read.
My own kit is a real mix.
I'm a spoiled only female in the family, and the menfolks will buy me good stuff for my birthdays and Christmases
I'm also blessed with incredibly good friends who are excellent craftsfolks.
I love a bargain but I suspect I love quality more.
I also make a lot of pieces for myself. Tbh I think that's a major part of this hobby/ game/ lifestyle that we all follow in some fashion or other.
Do I look down or criticise someone else's kit ? No, but sometimes I'll comment on the overpriced celebrity endorsed stuff but I'm happy to admit that that's just the housewife in me coming out Occasionally on unsuitable clothing, denims in the cold and wet for instance, but hey, folks are adult and responsible for themselves. I've said my bit, it's up to them if they want to be chilled and sodden.
That apart, if it works for you, go for it It'd be a boring old world if we were all the same.
cheers,
Toddy
There's only one comment I'd make on kit, and it's that seeing something someone I respect use, makes me look favourably upon it.
By someone I respect, I mean friends, family, folks I've met and a couple who's work I've only read.
My own kit is a real mix.
I'm a spoiled only female in the family, and the menfolks will buy me good stuff for my birthdays and Christmases
I'm also blessed with incredibly good friends who are excellent craftsfolks.
I love a bargain
but I suspect I love quality more. I also make a lot of pieces for myself. Tbh I think that's a major part of this hobby/ game/ lifestyle that we all follow in some fashion or other.
Do I look down or criticise someone else's kit ? No, but sometimes I'll comment on the overpriced celebrity endorsed stuff
but I'm happy to admit that that's just the housewife in me coming out Occasionally on unsuitable clothing, denims in the cold and wet for instance, but hey, folks are adult and responsible for themselves. I've said my bit, it's up to them if they want to be chilled and sodden.That apart, if it works for you, go for it
It'd be a boring old world if we were all the same.cheers,
Toddy
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I am finding it very hard to write out a reply to this thread. - On the whole this forum like many others is a wealth of extremely useful information and it follows my personal interests very well.
I have met a very precious few of the members on here and as Toddy put, there is not one among them who I would not share a cuppa with. - although many would receive a meal and a pint or three.
From my short time here I have often noticed the who/what is better threads - some of which are interesting to read others are a representation of very childish behaviour and thinking.
To my mind arguing with some one you have never met - about what is essentially an extremely trivial subject, be it "who is best" or "what knife" etc etc - is pointless.
on the airsoft forums the running joke among older members is "What gun am bestest?" - these threads crop up all the time and the answer is ALWAYS - which one do you like the look of best? kit, knives, taste in TV programmes is a very personal thing and I for one think it is a damn good thing that we don't all agree on these subjects.
as said - a certain amount of uniformity is inevitable as people find that certain items work very well and recommend them to new comers.
- I am happy to accept that there are people out there who are better at this bushcraft lark than I am - but I will use what I like thank you very much. - if that is a knife I made myself or a pen knife I got from the market for £1 then so be it.
if you find that the £xxx knife/ shirt/ hat works well for you and you can afford it then great.
Toddy hit the nail on the head with her comment about seeing someone you respect use a certain item - I would say this has a very big impact on many of us.
any way I'm off to have a bath.
please do not let my comments cause offence to anyone.
all the best
Andy
I have met a very precious few of the members on here and as Toddy put, there is not one among them who I would not share a cuppa with. - although many would receive a meal and a pint or three.
From my short time here I have often noticed the who/what is better threads - some of which are interesting to read others are a representation of very childish behaviour and thinking.
To my mind arguing with some one you have never met - about what is essentially an extremely trivial subject, be it "who is best" or "what knife" etc etc - is pointless.
on the airsoft forums the running joke among older members is "What gun am bestest?" - these threads crop up all the time and the answer is ALWAYS - which one do you like the look of best? kit, knives, taste in TV programmes is a very personal thing and I for one think it is a damn good thing that we don't all agree on these subjects.
as said - a certain amount of uniformity is inevitable as people find that certain items work very well and recommend them to new comers.
- I am happy to accept that there are people out there who are better at this bushcraft lark than I am - but I will use what I like thank you very much. - if that is a knife I made myself or a pen knife I got from the market for £1 then so be it.
if you find that the £xxx knife/ shirt/ hat works well for you and you can afford it then great.
Toddy hit the nail on the head with her comment about seeing someone you respect use a certain item - I would say this has a very big impact on many of us.
any way I'm off to have a bath.
please do not let my comments cause offence to anyone.
all the best
Andy
When you get a large group of people together with a "similar" interest, you're going to get sub-sections of people within that group.
I find it funny that this thread has come about because of that other thread when if said person had bothered to look, there is a Search function so whether lazyness or just a CBA attitude is anyone's guess. It's the same crowd once again talking sense - to a degree.
I use a variety of kit, from cheap bottom trousers to an expensive pack and yet ever piece of kit i wear has had some derogatory remark made about it on here at some point. Thing is at the end of the day if it works for ME then people's opinions aren't going to matter.
THere is far too much cliqueness on here (and other forums on a variety of subjects) which is never going to keep everyone happy all the time.
I for one am very anti alcohol when there's sharps about, but i am constantly reading posts where people "have" to make room for more beer in their packs. Yes you can do what you want in the woods, but i don't care how much experience anyone has - booze and sharps don't mix.
At the end of the day you are going to get people who do naff all except sit on forums like this and scream "SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET IS WRONG" It's a fact of internet life.
Personally i think Ray Mears is the dogs danglies but that's just me.
If everyone was the same, then life would be very very boring. Maybe mods should nip threads like that in the bud, clipping out the carpey "I wouldn't pay £2 for a sodding knife" DUdes, if that's the amount of your opinions or advice then fark orf back to your wee holes in your back gardens.
I find it funny that this thread has come about because of that other thread when if said person had bothered to look, there is a Search function so whether lazyness or just a CBA attitude is anyone's guess. It's the same crowd once again talking sense - to a degree.
I use a variety of kit, from cheap bottom trousers to an expensive pack and yet ever piece of kit i wear has had some derogatory remark made about it on here at some point. Thing is at the end of the day if it works for ME then people's opinions aren't going to matter.
THere is far too much cliqueness on here (and other forums on a variety of subjects) which is never going to keep everyone happy all the time.
I for one am very anti alcohol when there's sharps about, but i am constantly reading posts where people "have" to make room for more beer in their packs. Yes you can do what you want in the woods, but i don't care how much experience anyone has - booze and sharps don't mix.
At the end of the day you are going to get people who do naff all except sit on forums like this and scream "SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET IS WRONG" It's a fact of internet life.
Personally i think Ray Mears is the dogs danglies but that's just me.
If everyone was the same, then life would be very very boring. Maybe mods should nip threads like that in the bud, clipping out the carpey "I wouldn't pay £2 for a sodding knife" DUdes, if that's the amount of your opinions or advice then fark orf back to your wee holes in your back gardens.
JonathanD
I agree with nearly all you say in your post below, but that was not the point I was trying to make. So, ignoring the folks who have to use bushcraft to simply live (the ones not in the UK, in my post), I am referring exactly to the type of person in the post, that HAS to let you know he is a bushcrafter.
Some examples could be:
The land rover club owners, who invited everyone on a camp site to come to their fire in the eveneing, as they were experts in fires, as they watched Ray Mears (they actually said that). They did indeed have a very large amount of wood, as they had stolen wood from other campers piles, as well as basically building on the pile of wood the site owner had left for everyone to share!
When they got to my little group, we were using a small wood burner to make some coffee, so they called that pathetic, and said theirs would be better. When the time came to light their fire, I went up to watch...and saw massive logs (30-40cm dia) on the floor, with wood getting smaller and smaller towards to top (but not an upside down fire), they then tried to light the base with a lighter!.
They then used petrol, and a whole twenty litres later, they got it roaring (it lasted about two hours, as they had no spare wood).
When they left the next day, they did not tidy up the fire pit, but did leave 40-50 beer cans on the floor.
At this point is is worth remembering that they were BUSH CRAFTERS...they had made a point of telling anyone who would listen to them. I wonder what other campers on the site thought of bush crafters after that!
I have stayed at this site many times, and oddly, no one has ever had to tell me they were a camper (but I have met many 'campers' who seemed to need to tell me they had been to Everest base camp...an odd thing to say to a total stranger in a shop lol).
I'm sorry if I was clear enough first time round, but it was turning into a major novel, and would have needed to be serialised in a Sunday paper lol
I agree with nearly all you say in your post below, but that was not the point I was trying to make. So, ignoring the folks who have to use bushcraft to simply live (the ones not in the UK, in my post), I am referring exactly to the type of person in the post, that HAS to let you know he is a bushcrafter.
Some examples could be:
The land rover club owners, who invited everyone on a camp site to come to their fire in the eveneing, as they were experts in fires, as they watched Ray Mears (they actually said that). They did indeed have a very large amount of wood, as they had stolen wood from other campers piles, as well as basically building on the pile of wood the site owner had left for everyone to share!
When they got to my little group, we were using a small wood burner to make some coffee, so they called that pathetic, and said theirs would be better. When the time came to light their fire, I went up to watch...and saw massive logs (30-40cm dia) on the floor, with wood getting smaller and smaller towards to top (but not an upside down fire), they then tried to light the base with a lighter!.
They then used petrol, and a whole twenty litres later, they got it roaring (it lasted about two hours, as they had no spare wood).
When they left the next day, they did not tidy up the fire pit, but did leave 40-50 beer cans on the floor.
At this point is is worth remembering that they were BUSH CRAFTERS...they had made a point of telling anyone who would listen to them. I wonder what other campers on the site thought of bush crafters after that!
I have stayed at this site many times, and oddly, no one has ever had to tell me they were a camper (but I have met many 'campers' who seemed to need to tell me they had been to Everest base camp...an odd thing to say to a total stranger in a shop lol).
I'm sorry if I was clear enough first time round, but it was turning into a major novel, and would have needed to be serialised in a Sunday paper lol
There are fantasists in all walks of life - those guys seem to be the Bushcraft Walter Mitty's!
I have seen their equals in climbing, trekking, archery.....everywhere!
Got to love them as they give such a laugh.
Pity they need cleaning up after though!
Strange how we all can get caought up in the whole kit thing (me included) when the reason we all buy it is the same. So we can go out and enjoy the outdoors and be comfatable.
I don't care what the odd idiot says about bushcrafters, I just like being outside practising and learning new skills, hopefully in the company of a few friends.
Live and let live I say.
PREPER.............
Well said that man !!
Easy answers to OP:
1. UK = Build 'em up, them knock em' down. British psyche.
2. Remember when you were a teenager and you discovered a band? You were one a small number of people who knew about the band and bought it's records. You were original and in from the start. Then, other people started to like them, they sold lots of records. Now, you don't like them anymore because too many others do and they're no longer your little secret. You think they sold out and, regardless of how good they are, you move on to find another new band who you say are now 'better'. Same in bushcraft: we liked Ray, Mora, Gransfors, lavus, etc. We told everyone else about them and now other people like them too. Now they're popular, we have to share them with everyone else and we don't like that - we want the power and the knowledge. So, we slag 'em off and move onto something else that no-one's heard of yet.
Whatever happened to loyalty?
I still rate Ray Mears - not unconditionally, though - and I want to listen/read/watch what he has to say. I still think Mora make good products, whatever they call them, although I prefer my SBK (I wish everyone had an SBK - they're great - but Rod can't make them quick enough!). Gransfors make great axes and I'm not going to sell mine because they're perhaps not as 'popular' anymore.
Like every other hobby/interest, we're not immune from bandwagons and trends, and we're all guilty to some extent.
Constructive criticism is what is needed, not slagging. Except for meths stoves. They suck - full stop. ;-)
1. UK = Build 'em up, them knock em' down. British psyche.
2. Remember when you were a teenager and you discovered a band? You were one a small number of people who knew about the band and bought it's records. You were original and in from the start. Then, other people started to like them, they sold lots of records. Now, you don't like them anymore because too many others do and they're no longer your little secret. You think they sold out and, regardless of how good they are, you move on to find another new band who you say are now 'better'. Same in bushcraft: we liked Ray, Mora, Gransfors, lavus, etc. We told everyone else about them and now other people like them too. Now they're popular, we have to share them with everyone else and we don't like that - we want the power and the knowledge. So, we slag 'em off and move onto something else that no-one's heard of yet.
Whatever happened to loyalty?
I still rate Ray Mears - not unconditionally, though - and I want to listen/read/watch what he has to say. I still think Mora make good products, whatever they call them, although I prefer my SBK (I wish everyone had an SBK - they're great - but Rod can't make them quick enough!). Gransfors make great axes and I'm not going to sell mine because they're perhaps not as 'popular' anymore.
Like every other hobby/interest, we're not immune from bandwagons and trends, and we're all guilty to some extent.
Constructive criticism is what is needed, not slagging. Except for meths stoves. They suck - full stop. ;-)
Badwagons? I love bandwagons... and wagon wheels.... wagons roll....
Well put Mikey P, but RM is an ambassador for our hobby, British, and still cool.
Well put Mikey P, but RM is an ambassador for our hobby, British, and still cool.
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Waggon Wheels just arn't what they were!
The choc is thinner, the biscuit not as crisp and the mallow thinner!
Tunnocks make much better mallow choc and bickie treats!
And their coconut covered caramel bisuit bars MMmmmmmmmm!
Mind you - the wrappers are boring....
The choc is thinner, the biscuit not as crisp and the mallow thinner!
Tunnocks make much better mallow choc and bickie treats!
And their coconut covered caramel bisuit bars MMmmmmmmmm!
Mind you - the wrappers are boring....
John I live about a mile from Tunnock's factory My Aunt used to be the wages clerkess there.
Tunnock's have a bakery shop in the village and it sells somethings that don't travel well. Coconut meringues, and assorted teabreads for instance
We used to say we could tell what day of the week it was by the smell wafting down the Bellshill Road toasted coconut, melted caramel, chocolate, the white teacake filling, wafers......
If I'm down at the Moot next year I'll bring a box
Himself says the same thing about Wagonwheels as you do, he finds them a huge disappointment now.
cheers,
M
My Aunt used to be the wages clerkess there.Tunnock's have a bakery shop in the village and it sells somethings that don't travel well. Coconut meringues, and assorted teabreads for instance
We used to say we could tell what day of the week it was by the smell wafting down the Bellshill Road
toasted coconut, melted caramel, chocolate, the white teacake filling, wafers......If I'm down at the Moot next year I'll bring a box
Himself says the same thing about Wagonwheels as you do, he finds them a huge disappointment now.
cheers,
M
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