I'm still not happy about being involved in an organised scrumping foray and possibly being bitten with heavily laden Biker on me shoulders, it is not the way i intend to go.
Why guns should not be carried in the wilderness!!
- Thread starter BOD
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I am mostly worried about the indelible image of Bikers **** as he lands on me! a bite to the leg and a slightly wiffy face is not a good look in A+E.
Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I'm sure the A&E nurses would have seen a lot worse... Don't even go there though
And just what exactly are you insinuating with this "heavily laden Biker" comment anyway pal? Unless you're referring to armfulls of scrumped apples of course and not my built for comfort chassis.
OF course, after an afternoon of apples and cheese, we would both be in need of a plus sized gurney, hmmm apples and cheese, think i might og and sit in the garage under the pretence of packing and scoff some now, with crusty bread and salami, nom nom nom!
Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Bon appetite mon ami! You've given me a great idea for my own lunch today, thanks. Sliced granny smith and hot spicy salami that I bought yesterday. Deelish!
So when's the big move "dahn sarf" then?
So when's the big move "dahn sarf" then?
All being well movers arrive Monday, we five down Tuesday and they should arrive Wednesday morning. Very excited now, I'm ic MT ao ill be calling first parades around 0530 Tuesday morning and final prep for the road move. Though everything keeps being delayed by finding cool little bits of kit I'd forgotton about.
Bite force in snakes is relatively low. Strike force though is high and a viper can easily go through thick boots. Gaboon vipers can have fangs that are 2inches long and it is no problem for them to penetrate hard leather. Elapids have shorter fangs and most are too short to penetrate thick hard boots. The larger species though certainly could, but not with the same penetration as a viper.
GABOON & RATTLER...
MAMBA & COBRA...
sorry if i sidestep(again), but as i spent(and HOPEFULLY more in the future!!!) quite some time in australia: obviously leather hiking boots are not always a protection? i came quite a few times across venomous snakes over there. the common story of "snakes feel vibration and move away" is not always true. once i was barefoot taking a wooden showerfloor apart and less then a metre away from my feet the head of a 5ft-king brown appeared... . more by instinct/reflex then thinking i dropped the board back and retreated(as we were in the middle of nowhere- god knows how far from the next "flying doctor- landing spot; even further from the next hospital- my host decided to shoot it with a .22magnum but neither me nor him felt happy about it!) rather quick... . in several other cases of coming across venomous snakes (and once a python trying to crawl in my bed at night) i just and simply talked to them and took a few steps backwards, explaining that i just happened to come along and meant no harm- and the snakes just retreated.
Leather hiking boots offer some protection. The venomous snakes of Australia are elapids and have shorter fangs than vipers but can still penetrate leather and are quite large so are likely to strike in the calf and shin area.
A snakes ability to feel vibration in the ground through their jaws is exceptional. However, most snakes tend to rest their heads on their bodies when sunning themselves and rely more on movement and scent. They can't pick up on airborne sounds though, so you don't need to chat to them when retreating
A snakes ability to feel vibration in the ground through their jaws is exceptional. However, most snakes tend to rest their heads on their bodies when sunning themselves and rely more on movement and scent. They can't pick up on airborne sounds though, so you don't need to chat to them when retreating
They can't pick up on airborne sounds though, so you don't need to chat to them when retreating
The talking is for us. I talk to most animals and reptiles I encounter apart from animals like deer that would be spooked. I never thought about it before but it calms me down and slows my movements accordingly.
I used to cringe when Steve Irwin and similar people would bellow Crikey while handling a snake. Lucky for the snakes that they were deaf!
You are quite right. I have a young puff adder at the moment who has worked out what time fresh water comes in and which side of the viv opens when he is about to be fed. I can see him trying to sneak under the logs and leaves towards me and always tell him that I can see exactly what he is up to and that he has got no chance. He still continues to try though.
Leather hiking boots offer some protection. The venomous snakes of Australia are elapids and have shorter fangs than vipers but can still penetrate leather and are quite large so are likely to strike in the calf and shin area.
A snakes ability to feel vibration in the ground through their jaws is exceptional. However, most snakes tend to rest their heads on their bodies when sunning themselves and rely more on movement and scent. They can't pick up on airborne sounds though, so you don't need to chat to them when retreating
about the boots: good- should be fine then if i ever manage to get back home and head out bush for a walk and bash through chest-high speargrass- bit tricky to see what's hiding inside. vibratations might tell them that something's coming, but that does not mean they move away; the fellow under the shower floor seemed to have lived there for quite some time and did'nt bother about people taking showers right above him... .
i'm aware, too that snakes cannot hear, but i found it many times that animals(not only snakes, fish, birds and mammals as well) sem to be able somehow to sense if you mean them any harm or not. if i'm just out for a wealk i can get quite close to animals to watch them but if i'm hunting they keep on distance... .
"Not carrying guns in the wilderness" can be the equivalent of saying "if you go into the wilderness you should accept giving up your life rather than kill an animal or reptile which attacks you" .... thankfully things have not got that bad .... but people who hold sentimentality towards "animals and reptiles" to that degree are welcome to show the way .... then natural selection can sort out the "glitch" in common sense which they seem to advocate ....
Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Hmm PeterHW I can't decide if the posting above is aimed at me personally for objecting to the killing of this snake or not.
Totally agree with you that going unarmed into the wilderness, whether that's without a knife or a gun, (and not always as a means of personal defence) is asking for trouble. However, reading between the lines of the original article it did give the impression "Mr Gung-ho" of Kill-em-all, Georgia, USA blasted that rattler just because he could, not because it was any direct threat to him. It was slithering away at the time. That's what I object to, this indescriminate killing of animals just because you're armed and they happen to be in range and in your sights.
I know of a French hunter over here, he goes out hunting birds, but anything with feathers is considered fair game to him, farmyard chickens included. I heard a story he blasted an owl as it flew out of a barn. Just blew it away and walked on without even pausing to see the bloody corpse hit the ground. Now that mentality is just sick. I got the same impression from that article about Mr Gung-ho.
Maybe I'm wrong about him, the article could be read both ways. "Innocent man has close call with giant snake, only his quick thinking and sharp shooting saved his life." We'll never know, we weren't there, but like any internet forum we do like to speculate the deeper meanings and motivations behind events.
Totally agree with you that going unarmed into the wilderness, whether that's without a knife or a gun, (and not always as a means of personal defence) is asking for trouble. However, reading between the lines of the original article it did give the impression "Mr Gung-ho" of Kill-em-all, Georgia, USA blasted that rattler just because he could, not because it was any direct threat to him. It was slithering away at the time. That's what I object to, this indescriminate killing of animals just because you're armed and they happen to be in range and in your sights.
I know of a French hunter over here, he goes out hunting birds, but anything with feathers is considered fair game to him, farmyard chickens included. I heard a story he blasted an owl as it flew out of a barn. Just blew it away and walked on without even pausing to see the bloody corpse hit the ground. Now that mentality is just sick. I got the same impression from that article about Mr Gung-ho.
Maybe I'm wrong about him, the article could be read both ways. "Innocent man has close call with giant snake, only his quick thinking and sharp shooting saved his life." We'll never know, we weren't there, but like any internet forum we do like to speculate the deeper meanings and motivations behind events.
My quote is from the title to the thread .... my opinion is from the desire to preserve my own life when in the wilderness ....
Tony mentioned the point that unless you live in a given area .... it is hard to appreciate the situation. I agree with this. As much as can be gleaned from the article mention is made of clearing an area of fruit trees.... and from others aware of equipment for protection from snakes he is wearing boots to do that .... plus he has a pistol with him. I believe they were deliberately clearing some orchid or other of snakes to perhaps enable the fruit to be picked .... and you can see the danger if picking the fruit means picking it off the ground.
Co-existing with snakes depends on how easily it can be done .... there are many instances of diamondbacks being run over on the road and them curling up around the axle .... then they often get taken home .... probably injured and dangerous .... pets and children have been victims .... so hearts and minds education on the topic is needed to overcome the relatively understandable point that if kids are going into an orchid to pick fruit or even adults for that matter .... that snakes therein don't have to be killed to reduce the danger but can be trapped and moved.
Florida as a state is pretty good on this with there being a State service available for the relocation of alligators and snakes which can often end up in swimming pools .... other States though probably don't have the facility .... and most people would not have the training or confidence to do it themselves .... but if the guy's story was that he was killing the snake because the fruit needed picking and to pick the fruit him, his wife and his kids all played a part in doing it .... I am not going to judge the guy too harshly .... it is the same in Africa .... the people who live with the risk .... are more inclined to think killing a snake is easier than removing and relocating one ....
But with the right "education" and "trained wildlife officers" being available to do these tasks .... then you can make in roads to avoiding unneccessary killing of these creatures ....
However .... having had some unintended close encounters with things that can kill you .... I fully understand the natural instinct to kill it before it kills me .... we all have it .... it's a natural deep rooted instinctual response.
Tony mentioned the point that unless you live in a given area .... it is hard to appreciate the situation. I agree with this. As much as can be gleaned from the article mention is made of clearing an area of fruit trees.... and from others aware of equipment for protection from snakes he is wearing boots to do that .... plus he has a pistol with him. I believe they were deliberately clearing some orchid or other of snakes to perhaps enable the fruit to be picked .... and you can see the danger if picking the fruit means picking it off the ground.
Co-existing with snakes depends on how easily it can be done .... there are many instances of diamondbacks being run over on the road and them curling up around the axle .... then they often get taken home .... probably injured and dangerous .... pets and children have been victims .... so hearts and minds education on the topic is needed to overcome the relatively understandable point that if kids are going into an orchid to pick fruit or even adults for that matter .... that snakes therein don't have to be killed to reduce the danger but can be trapped and moved.
Florida as a state is pretty good on this with there being a State service available for the relocation of alligators and snakes which can often end up in swimming pools .... other States though probably don't have the facility .... and most people would not have the training or confidence to do it themselves .... but if the guy's story was that he was killing the snake because the fruit needed picking and to pick the fruit him, his wife and his kids all played a part in doing it .... I am not going to judge the guy too harshly .... it is the same in Africa .... the people who live with the risk .... are more inclined to think killing a snake is easier than removing and relocating one ....
But with the right "education" and "trained wildlife officers" being available to do these tasks .... then you can make in roads to avoiding unneccessary killing of these creatures ....
However .... having had some unintended close encounters with things that can kill you .... I fully understand the natural instinct to kill it before it kills me .... we all have it .... it's a natural deep rooted instinctual response.
Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I understand, thanks for clearing that up. Hadn't realised an injured snake could wrap itself around the axle. Scary stuff!
Oh well more postings to read, thanks for your well written reply.
Oh well more postings to read, thanks for your well written reply.
It's not uncommon for snakes to be a eaten in the southern U.S.
By the way rattlesnakes have a nice flavor and texture not unlike chicken.
By the way rattlesnakes have a nice flavor and texture not unlike chicken.
This is why that guy should not carry guns in the wilderness.
As one who almost always carries firearms in the wilderness, I feel an obligation to make that distinction. To me, it seems as silly as saying "Someone stepped on a rare plant, this is why shoes should not be worn in the wilderness."
Besides, that redneck would have done the same thing with a stick or a shovel, or whatever other tool was at his disposal.
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