Why guns should not be carried in the wilderness!!

[telwebb]

Has anybody else ever wondered how come chickens got such a bum deal when so many other things taste just like them?

 

[Retired Member southey]

Or are the chickens secretly changing the DNA of other animals to taste like them, so we dont have to eat a chicken to get the taste?

Clever blighters chickens, never let em get behind you!

 

[santaman2000]

Bushcraft: Living seamlessly with the environment with mimimum impact on it and the eco system it contains. Sheesh! Maybe they have a different guidebook to the rest of us.

Yes we do. A rattler that large is a menace to children living in the area and we definitely DO believe, "KILL ON SITE!!!!!!" Wait until you step on one.

 

[santaman2000]

Shorts and cowboy boots, that's a look I'd love to adopt! Ya, made me laugh the way this fella thinks; ' Conrad said the snake didn’t even rattle. It merely lifted its head up above the grass, surveyed the scene and tried to slither away.' So what does Conrad do? Pop a cap in it! Silent face palm...

Yes and we laugh at how you dress in women's shoes.

 

[santaman2000]

Can't agree with the sentiment of "don't carry guns in the wilderness" but can agree with "what a prat" (unless there was a good reason for destroying the snake).

Guns are tools and blaming the tool for the foolish behaviour is the same as saying "ban knives from the wilderness because people might stab someone".

Guns are fine in the wilderness - for hunting and, if necessary in some dangerous areas, for defense (I believe, for example, polar bears can be a problem but a warning shot can be sufficient).

That said, I am also not against killing an animal that is a pest and potentially dangerous to people, domestic livestock, pets or children. This includes reptiles where they are numerous and a problem.

Now clearly, in this case, the guy was at some sort of hunting lodge according to the story and the snake was not a threat and indeed trying to leave - it wasn't in his garden trying to bite his child or pet. So absolutely "Knob" sums him up. But ban guns from the wilderness? The guy was at a hunting lodge - so unless we ban hunting (which I am very opposed to) then no - thats a complete over reaction. Punish the pillock, not law abiding hunters. Nothing wrong with having a hand gun for humane despatch etc. either - some UK hunters still have an exemption for this.

Red

Punish him for what? It's perfectly legal to kill snakes. And yes it is a danger in a hunting area. In the South we hunt with dogs and with our kids so he couldn't leave it there to attack later.

 

[santaman2000]

Totally get what you're saying Red, guns are tools and misuse will result in extremties being blown off. What I thought was odd was that he was carrying a .44 magnum "to cover for such occaisons." Maybe it's common practice to carry such a gun while checking fruit trees. A wild apple or pear is a dangerous beastie, don't even mention man-killing elderberries!

The bears that eat those fruits are extremely dangerous when surprised. As are the alligators found in Georgia. I know you tend not to remember things like that since large predators there were exterminated centuries ago.

 

[santaman2000]

Can I amend the title to why guns should not be carried by idiots?

If professionals can go to game parks in Africa without carrying and using a firearm why does he need a sidearm of such calibre?

Because it really ain't that big a caliber, it's still only a handgun weaker than a centerfire rifle and because a 30-30 is to heavy.

 

[santaman2000]

"poor harmless thing"

Did we read the same article? It had 2 inch fangs as well! not to mention the 9mm automatic in the speed holster on it's hip.

Yeah another good point Jonathan. Snakeproof boots eh? So snakes only bite up to mid-calf then? I'd be wearing a bleedin' suit of armour! :yikes:

Better yet, standing on Southey's shoulders. I probably taste like chicken to snakes given my courage factor.

Ironicly, this one's right. Yeah they can bite as high as they can spring BUT!! They don't. They are ground creatures and do indeed strike for the ankles.

 

[santaman2000]

My quote is from the title to the thread .... my opinion is from the desire to preserve my own life when in the wilderness ....

Tony mentioned the point that unless you live in a given area .... it is hard to appreciate the situation. I agree with this. As much as can be gleaned from the article mention is made of clearing an area of fruit trees.... and from others aware of equipment for protection from snakes he is wearing boots to do that .... plus he has a pistol with him. I believe they were deliberately clearing some orchid or other of snakes to perhaps enable the fruit to be picked .... and you can see the danger if picking the fruit means picking it off the ground.

Co-existing with snakes depends on how easily it can be done .... there are many instances of diamondbacks being run over on the road and them curling up around the axle .... then they often get taken home .... probably injured and dangerous .... pets and children have been victims .... so hearts and minds education on the topic is needed to overcome the relatively understandable point that if kids are going into an orchid to pick fruit or even adults for that matter .... that snakes therein don't have to be killed to reduce the danger but can be trapped and moved.

Florida as a state is pretty good on this with there being a State service available for the relocation of alligators and snakes which can often end up in swimming pools .... other States though probably don't have the facility .... and most people would not have the training or confidence to do it themselves .... but if the guy's story was that he was killing the snake because the fruit needed picking and to pick the fruit him, his wife and his kids all played a part in doing it .... I am not going to judge the guy too harshly .... it is the same in Africa .... the people who live with the risk .... are more inclined to think killing a snake is easier than removing and relocating one ....

But with the right "education" and "trained wildlife officers" being available to do these tasks .... then you can make in roads to avoiding unneccessary killing of these creatures ....

However .... having had some unintended close encounters with things that can kill you .... I fully understand the natural instinct to kill it before it kills me .... we all have it .... it's a natural deep rooted instinctual response.

I've spoken to one of the Fish and Wildlife officers here in Florida. He said that the alligator population has recovered enough that they no longer relocate them. Nuisance alligators are now killed by the trappers licensed to remove them and are processed for meat and hides. I'm not sure when they started doing this. Fish and Wildlife Officers never trapped them themselves but have always used proffessional alligator trappers for that. There is also a hunting season for alligators open to the general public who are fortunate enough to be drawn in the raffle for licenses. That has been the case since before I got here 21 years ago.

 

[santaman2000]

This is why that guy should not carry guns in the wilderness.

As one who almost always carries firearms in the wilderness, I feel an obligation to make that distinction. To me, it seems as silly as saying "Someone stepped on a rare plant, this is why shoes should not be worn in the wilderness."

Besides, that redneck would have done the same thing with a stick or a shovel, or whatever other tool was at his disposal.

What's wrong with rednecks?

 

[santaman2000]

In West Texas they still have a rattlesnake roundup annually. They bag anywhere from a few hundred to nearly a thousand each year. The participants will eat some of them themselves and the rest of the meat is donated to a non profit organization such as an orphanage or homeless shelter. They also serve some of the meat at the festival that accompanies the roundup. Rattlesnake chile is a popular recipe. I believe though that they are harvesting the smaller Western Diamondback. They have similar snake harvests in Idaho but on a smaller scale.

To the Canadian ex-pat who posted: I'm sure you remember the most dreaded snake in North America, The white Canadian/Alaskan Snow Snake!

 

[mrcharly]

Jeepers, guys, can you put those pics of snake mouth's in spoilers? It's not like I'm scared of snakes, more that they make my flesh creep.

I spent my childhood running around barefoot in short in WA, in dugite and tiger snake country. Trod on them on several occasions - it's bloody amazing how far I can jump, you know. Never got bitten, and tiger snakes are pretty aggressive (dugites are wimpy). There was that time I went for a pee behind a grass tree, and mid flow looked down to see dugite poised to strike. Not a muscle twitched, but I levitated 4 feet vertically and 10 feet sideways.

There was no need for them to shoot that rattler. Even tho' snakes give me the heebie jeebies, I'd have shot it with a camera at most.

 

[mrcharly]

Punish him for what? It's perfectly legal to kill snakes. And yes it is a danger in a hunting area. In the South we hunt with dogs and with our kids so he couldn't leave it there to attack later.

Is it just me that sees an incredible irony here?

 

[leon-1]

Yes and we laugh at how you dress in women's shoes.

Calm down.

To the Canadian ex-pat who posted: I'm sure you remember the most dreaded snake in North America, The white Canadian/Alaskan Snow Snake!

Not called for, you and I both know that rattlesnakes are found above the border as well.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you have come in very aggressively on this and there is no requirement. Don't continue along that line, this is a warning and I won't give another.

If this comes in as being aggressive it's meant to be.

 

[Harry The Camper]

This is why animals become extinct. Have you ever thought about how YOU are tresspassing on THEIR land?? Nature belongs to the things that live in it. We are mere visitors or even burglars to them! How would you feel if someone came into your home and shot you due to you looking somewhat menacing?? Leave it alone and they won't come looking for you!

I speak from experience here. King Cobra nests can be found near my house so I stay well away.

 

[JonathanD]

Don't even get me started on rattlesnake round-ups as being a good thing. The are treated as inhumanely as it is possible for an animal to be and that's just during collection which uses petrol squirted indisciminately down any burrow or crevice. Skinned alive and used as toys by people to prove their manliness. And a vast amount of the meat gets thrown out as mutilated corpses. It has no place in a modern society. And yes, I have witnessed this first hand at three different venues, and the most recent was 2007 where the practice had gotten even more inhumane since my first experience back in the early Nineties. The majority of people are not doing it to keep populations down to protect children and livestock. Most animals are collected in wilderness areas far far away from human habitation and there is a culture of actual hate going on, where the more they are mistreated, the more enjoyment is had by most. Utterly disgusting.

 

[resnikov]

Don't even get me started on rattlesnake round-ups as being a good thing. The are treated as inhumanely as it is possible for an animal to be and that's just during collection which uses petrol squirted indisciminately down any burrow or crevice. Skinned alive and used as toys by people to prove their manliness. And a vast amount of the meat gets thrown out as mutilated corpses. It has no place in a modern society. And yes, I have witnessed this first hand at three different venues, and the most recent was 2007 where the practice had gotten even more inhumane since my first experience back in the early Nineties. The majority of people are not doing it to keep populations down to protect children and livestock. Most animals are collected in wilderness areas far far away from human habitation and there is a culture of actual hate going on, where the more they are mistreated, the more enjoyment is had by most. Utterly disgusting.

What a well rounded and civilised society..... NOT!

Sounds a bit like Whacking Day

 

[JonathanD]

What a well rounded and civilised society..... NOT!

Sounds a bit like Whacking Day

Whacking day is far more humane.

 

[Neumo]

Strange outbreak of bunny-hugging libral gun-control in this one... I dont think suggesting that having a gun in the countryside is a bad thing; my experience in some parts of the US is that NOT having a firearm in your group is a bad thing. There are lots of things out there which need to de dealt with occaisionally with a firearm & large rattlers are most definatly one of them.

If people live in a land like the UK where there are not really any predators that will hunt, eat or poisen you then it's easy to become blase & naive about how it is in the rest of the world. People like that love all the little furry animals till they come home & find half a dozen rats in their house... then the storey changes. One persons animal is another persons vermin.

I see this as the landowner deciding that he did not want a large animal that can kill people loose on his land. That's it. People die of snake bites all the time over there, which some folks have forgotten. He could have decided to let it be but did not. What I have said might sound harsh to some but that is how it is. Rattlers are vermin & are controlled in the US, just like we control rats etc... over here.

EDIT: As usual, it's a poor choice of title that stirs things up on threads like this....

 

[mrcharly]

I see this as the landowner deciding that he did not want a large animal that can kill people loose on his land. That's it. People die of snake bites all the time over there, which some folks have forgotten. .

No, they don't. Death from snakebite is rare. The best info I could find (most pessimistic) listed about 8000 bites per year, and 1 in 500 of those dying. It said roughly 10 deaths per year. That's in a country of 150m people. I bet more die from falling off horses (actually, checking I found that over 200 die per year from horseriding). Better shoot those horses on sight!

As I said earlier, I grew up in a country with lots of lethally-venomous snakes. I never met a single person who had actually been bitten, and can't recall hearing of a single death.