Why am I carrying...........
- Thread starter Wayland
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I like small "survival kits" and I've found them handy numerous times over the past 40 years. I've carried one form or another ever since I was a kid in the scouts. But I'm a firm believer in a using kit, not one you stow away and forget about, although there are things I carry that I rarely use (like a whistle, for instance). I especially loathe the kind you buy that are sealed like a can of sardines. If you are not using your kit, you probably won't know how to use it.
If you spend a lot of time out hunting, fishing, birding, etc., it just makes sense to carry a small kit, even if you have no intention of using the stuff in it. But I've used stuff from my small kits many times. I once repaired a friends fishing rod with duct tape. Saved us a 2 mile trek and a portage. Is duct tape bushcrafty? Used it to fix the frame on someone's eyeglasses once. I've used the needle and thread countless times for repairs. I had a friend who ripped his hip belt on his backpack and the little three-cornered needle and heavy sewing thread, combined with my leatherman pliers, enabled me to repair his hipbelt with no problem. I can recall a pile of sewing jobs over the years, from tents and tarps to buttons and pants.
I've been separated from my friends while grouse and mushroom hunting and pulled out the whistle so I didn't have to yell to let them know where I was. I've also used the whistle to help a bird dog who got too far out, come back and find us, so it gets used once in a great while. I've used the button compass to find my way out of a woods at night during a squirrel hunt when I got a little too far back in a familiar woods and stayed out a little too late. It was the only compass I had because the woods was relatively small and familiar but I was glad I had it because it saved me some time wandering around in the dark. The compass got me to my truck quickly. My little microlight was handy too. Are those acceptable to the bushcraft PC police? Trip and fall over a root in the dark, hit your head on a rock, you could be out for awhile--or worse. I've used snare wire for all kinds of repairs and used it to make a fishing rod tip on a willow wand. I've used the small 1/8" ferro rod and tinder to start fires many times.
I tend to think of my little kits as gear, not necesarily as last resort tools and use them to supplement the rest of my kit although I see nothing wrong with having backup gear for the times when you don't carry a "possibles pouch." For day hikes, I almost always pack an all weather space blanket and sil poncho. A cup and a water bottle. A vile of iodine crystals. A med kit. A good knife. But there are many times I go into the woods to work and play and the only extra gear I carry is a small tin of survival goodies and a knife. That happens when you may have to carry a pile of other gear like photographic equipment, research gear, climbing ladders, computers, field guides, binoculars and spotting scopes, video equipment, or maybe a double barrel and a load of shot shells, rain gear and a jacket, lunch, and plenty of water. My intention is not to spend my time snaring animals or starting fires but you can bet there's a compass, a whistle, a spool of snare wire, the means for fire , and a few other goodies in my little kit, none of which I have any intention of using. My intention is to hunt grouse, not whittle spoons and pretend I'm an Indian, although I find that great fun as well, but not when I'm grouse hunting.
Last year, over 1,000,000 deer hunters took to the woods here in Michigan alone. I'd be very surprised if more than a small percentage of them took much survival gear whatsoever into the woods and since I know quite a few, I can make that statement with reasonable confidence. In fact, I know TOO MANY hunters like that. That number is just for gun hunters. There were also over 300,000 bowhunters (again in Michigan alone). And then you have small game hunters, fishermen, dayhikers, loggers, backpackers, trail maintenance people, birders, surveyors, research scientists, skiiers, mountain bikers, snowshoers (very trendy now among yuppies) etc., all heading into the wilds and you can bet that precious few have a possibles pouch because most of them have zero interest in bushcraft. But if they get lost, just the tools to get a simple fire going might be the difference between hypothermia and not, i.e., living and dying.
Several years ago after just finishing a week long backpacking trip I was driving down a dirt road leaving the trail head when I saw a young man and woman emerge from the woods. It was near total darkness. They were lost. They had been day hiking and somehow got off the trail and got turned around. They had zero gear with them, except an empty water bottle. Not even a flashlight (which might have been handy to signal a passing car since I almost missed seeing them myself). It was a cool spring night and they were chilled to the bone. I put them in my car and fired up the heater and as I sat there talking to them, the girls uncle came driving by who had been cruising the roads for hours looking for them. They were lucky. It doesn't always end that way. The best kit is still the one between your ears but building a small survival kit (or if you want to call it a possibles kit, so be it...
) takes forethought and planning and is a good exercise for anyone who spends time in the outdoors. The last thing I would do is try to discourage people from building these small kits or purchasing good ones like the kind Doug Ritter sells. The more you encourage this kind of activity, perhaps the more people will spend time learning how to use their little kits and who knows, it might even spark an interest in bushcraft.
If you spend a lot of time out hunting, fishing, birding, etc., it just makes sense to carry a small kit, even if you have no intention of using the stuff in it. But I've used stuff from my small kits many times. I once repaired a friends fishing rod with duct tape. Saved us a 2 mile trek and a portage. Is duct tape bushcrafty? Used it to fix the frame on someone's eyeglasses once. I've used the needle and thread countless times for repairs. I had a friend who ripped his hip belt on his backpack and the little three-cornered needle and heavy sewing thread, combined with my leatherman pliers, enabled me to repair his hipbelt with no problem. I can recall a pile of sewing jobs over the years, from tents and tarps to buttons and pants.
I've been separated from my friends while grouse and mushroom hunting and pulled out the whistle so I didn't have to yell to let them know where I was. I've also used the whistle to help a bird dog who got too far out, come back and find us, so it gets used once in a great while. I've used the button compass to find my way out of a woods at night during a squirrel hunt when I got a little too far back in a familiar woods and stayed out a little too late. It was the only compass I had because the woods was relatively small and familiar but I was glad I had it because it saved me some time wandering around in the dark. The compass got me to my truck quickly. My little microlight was handy too. Are those acceptable to the bushcraft PC police? Trip and fall over a root in the dark, hit your head on a rock, you could be out for awhile--or worse. I've used snare wire for all kinds of repairs and used it to make a fishing rod tip on a willow wand. I've used the small 1/8" ferro rod and tinder to start fires many times.
I tend to think of my little kits as gear, not necesarily as last resort tools and use them to supplement the rest of my kit although I see nothing wrong with having backup gear for the times when you don't carry a "possibles pouch." For day hikes, I almost always pack an all weather space blanket and sil poncho. A cup and a water bottle. A vile of iodine crystals. A med kit. A good knife. But there are many times I go into the woods to work and play and the only extra gear I carry is a small tin of survival goodies and a knife. That happens when you may have to carry a pile of other gear like photographic equipment, research gear, climbing ladders, computers, field guides, binoculars and spotting scopes, video equipment, or maybe a double barrel and a load of shot shells, rain gear and a jacket, lunch, and plenty of water. My intention is not to spend my time snaring animals or starting fires but you can bet there's a compass, a whistle, a spool of snare wire, the means for fire , and a few other goodies in my little kit, none of which I have any intention of using. My intention is to hunt grouse, not whittle spoons and pretend I'm an Indian, although I find that great fun as well, but not when I'm grouse hunting.
Last year, over 1,000,000 deer hunters took to the woods here in Michigan alone. I'd be very surprised if more than a small percentage of them took much survival gear whatsoever into the woods and since I know quite a few, I can make that statement with reasonable confidence. In fact, I know TOO MANY hunters like that. That number is just for gun hunters. There were also over 300,000 bowhunters (again in Michigan alone). And then you have small game hunters, fishermen, dayhikers, loggers, backpackers, trail maintenance people, birders, surveyors, research scientists, skiiers, mountain bikers, snowshoers (very trendy now among yuppies) etc., all heading into the wilds and you can bet that precious few have a possibles pouch because most of them have zero interest in bushcraft. But if they get lost, just the tools to get a simple fire going might be the difference between hypothermia and not, i.e., living and dying.
Several years ago after just finishing a week long backpacking trip I was driving down a dirt road leaving the trail head when I saw a young man and woman emerge from the woods. It was near total darkness. They were lost. They had been day hiking and somehow got off the trail and got turned around. They had zero gear with them, except an empty water bottle. Not even a flashlight (which might have been handy to signal a passing car since I almost missed seeing them myself). It was a cool spring night and they were chilled to the bone. I put them in my car and fired up the heater and as I sat there talking to them, the girls uncle came driving by who had been cruising the roads for hours looking for them. They were lucky. It doesn't always end that way. The best kit is still the one between your ears but building a small survival kit (or if you want to call it a possibles kit, so be it...
) takes forethought and planning and is a good exercise for anyone who spends time in the outdoors. The last thing I would do is try to discourage people from building these small kits or purchasing good ones like the kind Doug Ritter sells. The more you encourage this kind of activity, perhaps the more people will spend time learning how to use their little kits and who knows, it might even spark an interest in bushcraft.
How's that for timing....
Just had a hose come loose on the van and there in my newly repacked useful bits tin was the snare wire I have carried for about 15 years. Just right to replace the hose clip to get me home.
Now what were we saying......
Just had a hose come loose on the van and there in my newly repacked useful bits tin was the snare wire I have carried for about 15 years. Just right to replace the hose clip to get me home.
Now what were we saying......
This thread definitely makes one ponder.
Personally, I often think of my survival tin as like Pratchett's Axe of the Dwarves, with three new handles and four new axe-heads. Really, if the stuff in it isn't being used and replaced, the motivation to carry it fails. I have four ex-tin sewing kits floating around...
To me, the most essential function of the tin is to provide an easy source of three technologies: blades, fire, cordage. You'd probably get all you need with an SAK, bic lighter and a length of paracord, but where's the fun in that?
I say, long live survival kits! But wearing decent clothes and getting off the hills before the weather closes in is probably better than any kit.
Personally, I often think of my survival tin as like Pratchett's Axe of the Dwarves, with three new handles and four new axe-heads. Really, if the stuff in it isn't being used and replaced, the motivation to carry it fails. I have four ex-tin sewing kits floating around...
To me, the most essential function of the tin is to provide an easy source of three technologies: blades, fire, cordage. You'd probably get all you need with an SAK, bic lighter and a length of paracord, but where's the fun in that?
I say, long live survival kits! But wearing decent clothes and getting off the hills before the weather closes in is probably better than any kit.
Like most of the people on this thread I have made up "survival tin" kits since I was a kid - and had a lot of fun doing it.
A while ago I came across an online article by a Neil Andrews - I wonder if he is a member of this list? - which changed my attitude to how I carry what I need and to rethink what I need.
I started with Neil's ideas and over time my set up has evolved (and still is).
Have a read, it really did change the way I think about what I carry.
http://www.outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=103
A while ago I came across an online article by a Neil Andrews - I wonder if he is a member of this list? - which changed my attitude to how I carry what I need and to rethink what I need.
I started with Neil's ideas and over time my set up has evolved (and still is).
Have a read, it really did change the way I think about what I carry.
http://www.outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=103
A good test for the contents of an emergency tin is to take it into the wilds and live with only the tin for a couple of days. You then have a realistic basis for reviewing the contents.
Wouldn't recommend it without a full "normal" kit along as well.
It's designed to help with getting you out of the smelly stuff, to give you maybe just the wee bit of an edge you need not to expire.
Putting yourself in a position in which you're relying on it solely, on purpose, is irresponsible.
It's designed to help with getting you out of the smelly stuff, to give you maybe just the wee bit of an edge you need not to expire.
Putting yourself in a position in which you're relying on it solely, on purpose, is irresponsible.
I agree with Great Pebble. Don't put yourself in harm's way needlessly. Anytime you go into the bush you can test yourself by showing restraint in the gear that you use. But if you go the minimalist route and screw up (say you eat the wrong thing and poison yourself or you get stung by a bee and go into shock, become hypothermic, etc.) you could find yourself in an unintended real survival situation and no resources to fall back on. This kind of stuff does happen, even to the experts.
The most thorough treatment of the topic of survival kits I've ever read is John McCann's new book "Build the Perfect Survival Kit." Well written and well researched. It's top notch. It's obvious he put a lot of work into it and has tested the gear thoroughly. However, for plain ol' common sense about survival and survival kits, it's hard to beat Cody Lundin's book "98.6 degrees." Not much bushcraft in it but lots of common sense advice. And common sense sometimes ain't so common.
The most thorough treatment of the topic of survival kits I've ever read is John McCann's new book "Build the Perfect Survival Kit." Well written and well researched. It's top notch. It's obvious he put a lot of work into it and has tested the gear thoroughly. However, for plain ol' common sense about survival and survival kits, it's hard to beat Cody Lundin's book "98.6 degrees." Not much bushcraft in it but lots of common sense advice. And common sense sometimes ain't so common.
I have to agree with the "common sense" people here.
When in the wilds, what will save you is not a survival kit (which probably is forgotten back at the house or burned up in the carwreck you just climbed out of but your wits, knowledge and foremost security in your own skills.
Now, for minimalistic gear configuration however i'm all for it, again tempered with common sense =) On one extreme you have the people who tries to go out and "survive" with as little kit as possible and on the other side you have the guys who looks and sounds like a christmastree decorated by a deranged bushcraft'er who sampled the wrong mushroom ;P
Again i would like to draw to a practise commonly found among technical divers which i've found is very useful in all forms of equipment configuration. If there is ANY piece of kit that you cannot explain why it is essential for you to carry it and how you should use it, it probably shouldn't be in the pack. In short, if you can't answer "I need this because without this, it will be impossible for me to get food, set camp, call for help, patch a wound, etc." then it should probably not be brought. The pack you end up with is what you can call your "base" pack. This is a pack you would be able to go out and make a quite decent stay in the woods if this is all you brought. All you add to this are to be considered "perks" & Luxuries.
Now, this idea does not say you should not luxuries, but rather make sure you do have your base needs covered first. It will bring down your pack size considerably.
Finally, i suspect most of you seasoned forest-bears out there do this out of experience and old habit without thinking of it, but for us newbies this type of thinking might get us into the "right frame of mind".
When in the wilds, what will save you is not a survival kit (which probably is forgotten back at the house or burned up in the carwreck you just climbed out of
but your wits, knowledge and foremost security in your own skills. Now, for minimalistic gear configuration however i'm all for it, again tempered with common sense =) On one extreme you have the people who tries to go out and "survive" with as little kit as possible and on the other side you have the guys who looks and sounds like a christmastree decorated by a deranged bushcraft'er who sampled the wrong mushroom ;P
Again i would like to draw to a practise commonly found among technical divers which i've found is very useful in all forms of equipment configuration. If there is ANY piece of kit that you cannot explain why it is essential for you to carry it and how you should use it, it probably shouldn't be in the pack. In short, if you can't answer "I need this because without this, it will be impossible for me to get food, set camp, call for help, patch a wound, etc." then it should probably not be brought. The pack you end up with is what you can call your "base" pack. This is a pack you would be able to go out and make a quite decent stay in the woods if this is all you brought. All you add to this are to be considered "perks" & Luxuries.
Now, this idea does not say you should not luxuries, but rather make sure you do have your base needs covered first. It will bring down your pack size considerably.
Finally, i suspect most of you seasoned forest-bears out there do this out of experience and old habit without thinking of it, but for us newbies this type of thinking might get us into the "right frame of mind".
Many years ago, when I was youngster we used to have "survival" trips.
Friday, post work/school (yes that long ago) we'd head to a suitable bit of woodland on the bus, put up tents, fill with normal camping accoutrements light a fire, have a few beers and a bit of a laugh.
Saturday morning the tents came down and were packed away along with everything else into rucksacks. The rucks were then attached to para cord and hoisted over a bough.
So Saturday was spent with the contents of 'baccy tin and pockets making shelter, catching/aquiring food and living with the results.
Sunday morning there was time for a bit more foraging or some other exercise before the shelters were broken up and the rucks retrieved, usually the first action was to break out the beans & bacon or whatever and get them on the stove before heading off home again.
Hoisting the rucks off the ground was more psychological than anything else. You had to admit that you were beaten and let it down before you could cheat. But, in any grave extreme the stuff was there.
Friday, post work/school (yes that long ago) we'd head to a suitable bit of woodland on the bus, put up tents, fill with normal camping accoutrements light a fire, have a few beers and a bit of a laugh.
Saturday morning the tents came down and were packed away along with everything else into rucksacks. The rucks were then attached to para cord and hoisted over a bough.
So Saturday was spent with the contents of 'baccy tin and pockets making shelter, catching/aquiring food and living with the results.
Sunday morning there was time for a bit more foraging or some other exercise before the shelters were broken up and the rucks retrieved, usually the first action was to break out the beans & bacon or whatever and get them on the stove before heading off home again.
Hoisting the rucks off the ground was more psychological than anything else. You had to admit that you were beaten and let it down before you could cheat. But, in any grave extreme the stuff was there.
Hi everyone
Some interesting stuff on here. I left the green machine many years ago but still work in odd places around the world. I find most of my work involves day trips from the accommodation but with the ever-present risk of the vehicle not coming back/breaking down. So I thought about how to use the old E+E survival kit I had at home (Note: "at home"!). I realised that carrying snares etc didnt make much sense. I wasnt trying to avoid the people looking for me (well, not most of the time) just staying alive until found. So it seems perhaps the focus for a 'civvie' PSK is something to use for when a day trip inadvertently turns into an overnighter. Again this is climate and context dependent, and any foray into the bush should have, for example, drinking water and waterproofs as a standard, so this pouch/pocket/tin would be for the extra rather than the normal requirement. So, no snares, condoms saw razor blade in this kit.
So I now carry:
Firelighting kit. Flint/steel, large wax crayon, lifeboat matches in waterproof tube, innertube loops.
Water purification. Potassium Permanganate, small stocking as light milbank bag. Tube of camelbak 'elixir' powder.
Protection. Vacuum packed survival bag.
Location. Button compass.
Food. 2 tubes of emegency ration tablets.
This is small enough to fit in a camera pouch on the side of my daysack that carries all my 'standard' kit such as camelbak, waterproofs, camera, phone, maglite, leatherman, hank of paracord etc (wont bore you with the total list as you guys seem to know your business already). I also carry as standard a little strepsils tin (even smaller than an Altoids!) which has the sewing kit, spare buttons, cable ties, tweezers.
Some interesting stuff on here. I left the green machine many years ago but still work in odd places around the world. I find most of my work involves day trips from the accommodation but with the ever-present risk of the vehicle not coming back/breaking down. So I thought about how to use the old E+E survival kit I had at home (Note: "at home"!). I realised that carrying snares etc didnt make much sense. I wasnt trying to avoid the people looking for me (well, not most of the time) just staying alive until found. So it seems perhaps the focus for a 'civvie' PSK is something to use for when a day trip inadvertently turns into an overnighter. Again this is climate and context dependent, and any foray into the bush should have, for example, drinking water and waterproofs as a standard, so this pouch/pocket/tin would be for the extra rather than the normal requirement. So, no snares, condoms saw razor blade in this kit.
So I now carry:
Firelighting kit. Flint/steel, large wax crayon, lifeboat matches in waterproof tube, innertube loops.
Water purification. Potassium Permanganate, small stocking as light milbank bag. Tube of camelbak 'elixir' powder.
Protection. Vacuum packed survival bag.
Location. Button compass.
Food. 2 tubes of emegency ration tablets.
This is small enough to fit in a camera pouch on the side of my daysack that carries all my 'standard' kit such as camelbak, waterproofs, camera, phone, maglite, leatherman, hank of paracord etc (wont bore you with the total list as you guys seem to know your business already). I also carry as standard a little strepsils tin (even smaller than an Altoids!) which has the sewing kit, spare buttons, cable ties, tweezers.
personaly I like my tobacco tin survival kit, but when I carry it I think that my brew kit and survival bag are going to be far more use.
so mainly it's a fun bit of kit to play around with, and only realy any use when I finaly do a proper scouts survival camp (when they go through your bag leaving you with a sleeping bag, toothbrush, waterproofs and a spare pair of socks!!!)
so mainly it's a fun bit of kit to play around with, and only realy any use when I finaly do a proper scouts survival camp (when they go through your bag leaving you with a sleeping bag, toothbrush, waterproofs and a spare pair of socks!!!)
I don`t carry a PSK at all. The gear I am carrying with me is my PSK.
I`ve seen much arguing about loosing your gear (knife, pack, etc.) but I have been out in the woods for about 35 years, read various outdoor magazines, newspapers and so on.
There seems that NO person in Norway has died from loosing their pack (I have never heard about anyone who lost their pack either), knife or other items in the wild.
Those who have died have mostly done it because they were sick (heart desease) or just lacked the knowledge, not the gear (having inadequate gear is also lack of knowledge).
I can see no need for carrying a special PSK in the woods. Maybe if you are at war, but I`m seldom at war .
Tor
I`ve seen much arguing about loosing your gear (knife, pack, etc.) but I have been out in the woods for about 35 years, read various outdoor magazines, newspapers and so on.
There seems that NO person in Norway has died from loosing their pack (I have never heard about anyone who lost their pack either), knife or other items in the wild.
Those who have died have mostly done it because they were sick (heart desease) or just lacked the knowledge, not the gear (having inadequate gear is also lack of knowledge).
I can see no need for carrying a special PSK in the woods. Maybe if you are at war, but I`m seldom at war
.Tor
Like others in this thread, I've been building little survival tins for a long time. They are above all, a fun exercise. But somewhere along the way I realized that a few solid pieces of necessary kit are what I use all the time anyway. As fun as a small tin may be, real kit is a much better proposition. I realize that for the vast majority of my situations, a fishing and snare kit is completely useless. But I do still keep a very small tin in my pocket when I head out. It's tiny, and weighs very little. What I like about it is that it serves as a back up. I have a good compass, but if I should lose it or it's damaged, I have a replacement. I have a really solid lighter, but if it runs out of fuel, or I lose it, I have a small Bic as a replacement. I have a proper knife, but if I should lose it, I have a small SAK in there.
I like the adage that One is None and Two is One. None of the stuff in the tin would be my first choice, but I like the idea that I have a backup.
I like the adage that One is None and Two is One. None of the stuff in the tin would be my first choice, but I like the idea that I have a backup.
I don't see it as being off subject, I believe that it is right on. Much the same if I remember correctly that many of the old time trappers carried into Indian territory, along with 50 pounds of flour, and a cooking pot and that was to last them the entire trapping season, late fall through winter. Every thing else they needed was made from what they had available. I forgot to mention they also had their rifle, balls and powder.
So I was wondering
..If you carry such a personal emergency kit, for what purposes have you really designed it?[/quote]
Yes I carry a kit, although I can get by about anywhere with nothing, I still consider a kit as necessary. Without a kit, if car went off into a river or lake in freezing weather. I wouldn't have time to find all the materials to make a fire quickly, with the kit, all I need is to find dry fuel. I have a kit in the car also, but could I get to it in the above example, doubtful. If I had everything in a backpack in the back seat, again would I have time to get it?
So my kit consists of firesteel and striker, everlight tinder, a button compass, a button led light, a roll of dental floss, 3 #4 fish hooks and 3 #6 fish hooks, 4 split shot, 3 swivels, a flat whistle, a small mirror (out of a woman's compact), a knife made from a jigsaw blade and another jigsaw blade left as a saw, one of the better camando wire saws, and 4 water purifying tabs and 2 quart zip lock bags. All of this fits into a case made for the folding reading glasses. It fits in a front pocket of my jeans along with my SAK. Will I ever need it, I hope not. But if I do, then it is there, not lost or forgotten.
Yes I carry a kit, although I can get by about anywhere with nothing, I still consider a kit as necessary. Without a kit, if car went off into a river or lake in freezing weather. I wouldn't have time to find all the materials to make a fire quickly, with the kit, all I need is to find dry fuel. I have a kit in the car also, but could I get to it in the above example, doubtful. If I had everything in a backpack in the back seat, again would I have time to get it?
So my kit consists of firesteel and striker, everlight tinder, a button compass, a button led light, a roll of dental floss, 3 #4 fish hooks and 3 #6 fish hooks, 4 split shot, 3 swivels, a flat whistle, a small mirror (out of a woman's compact), a knife made from a jigsaw blade and another jigsaw blade left as a saw, one of the better camando wire saws, and 4 water purifying tabs and 2 quart zip lock bags. All of this fits into a case made for the folding reading glasses. It fits in a front pocket of my jeans along with my SAK. Will I ever need it, I hope not. But if I do, then it is there, not lost or forgotten.
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