Which centrefire calibre?
- Thread starter jamie18thmo
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
Hi Oakleaf,
I've been looking at package deals that include a 3-9x40 scope (various makes - simmons etc.) and mounts, all in for around $1200 NZ (approx $2.6 to the £ at the moment) for the Remington 700 SPS and $900 all in for the Mossberg 100 ATR.
I would rather get a package deal than buy individually, to get a good deal and keep it as simple as poss.
I've been looking at package deals that include a 3-9x40 scope (various makes - simmons etc.) and mounts, all in for around $1200 NZ (approx $2.6 to the £ at the moment) for the Remington 700 SPS and $900 all in for the Mossberg 100 ATR.
I would rather get a package deal than buy individually, to get a good deal and keep it as simple as poss.
As a rule of thumb I was given some very good advice by a very well respected stalker that has never let me down regarding optics, he said - "Buy the scope and mounts then buy the rifle with the change" Obviously not to be taken too literally but more to emphasise the budgetary requirement and importance of quality optics and mounts
yep a cheap scope can ruin a great gun and a good one transform a so so gun
a friend use to budget twice the rifle price for the glass
and used 7mm 08 for deer and fox (diffent loads) was a remmy 700 action stainless with a light barrel and carbon stock only weighed 5-6 lbs all up ( you gotta carry it all day) had a bit of shove on fireing and scope rash for the nervous
my worst ratio was a £1500 night sight on a £100 crossman ratcatcher
atb
Duncan
a friend use to budget twice the rifle price for the glass
and used 7mm 08 for deer and fox (diffent loads) was a remmy 700 action stainless with a light barrel and carbon stock only weighed 5-6 lbs all up ( you gotta carry it all day) had a bit of shove on fireing and scope rash for the nervous my worst ratio was a £1500 night sight on a £100 crossman ratcatcher
atb
Duncan
Jamie
Just remember that building up to the purchase is half the fun. Dont let assorted complications/ dire warnings spoil it too much.
Scopes are an even bigger bone of contention than rifles at times. There is an addage 'you get what you pay for' and does seem to apply to scopes often.
That said, we are dealing with the human world again - I have seen three Zeiss scopes with broken reticles and at the other end know regular shooters who fitted Tasco a decade ago and havent touched the scope since!
Slightly embarrassed to admit that a I probably spent about £2000 on assorted 'nefarious' scopes and the ammo required to constantly re/ check zero before splashing out £250 on a Schimdt Bender and another £80 on good mounts 6 years ago - but rapidly recouped outlay in saved ammo and much reduced faffing about.
Simmons are very popular, but in experience of about a dozen of them on various full bore rifles I have found quality variable. All tended to have very short eye relief ( causing 'scoping to eyebrow if not careful ) and their image quality was not on a par with many scopes. But that is pretty narrow experience and I'm not really qualified to judge Simmons. Others have told me that Simmons reputation comes from extensive use on Air rifles where these arent such issues?
Similiarly, retail package deals, tend to be an ok way to start, but not ideal. At risk of sounding like a dodgy car salesman, with your rifle 'quality is remembered long after the price forgotten' is a truism. Selling off family members for organ parts etc is entirely morally justified when setting up a hunting rifle...
Not a Remington fan - but pure prejudice on my part. Have observed they in general need a bit of setting up and TLC to reach the love'm to pieces standard. Tikka/ Sako/ Browning are there virtually out of the box.
Coming at it from the other end, the guest rifles I see that cause the least grief and have least hiccups tend to follow a pattern -
1. Sensible calibre for matter in hand. Think already done that one. Guests arriving with a .460 G & A for Roe stalking send a real warning signal!!!
2. Stainless or fluted barrel - cant figure why, but guys with these all seem to fall into 'competant' class and have few shooting issues. Cant put finger on it and I have neither so ???
3. Steel fixed mounts with solid rings - Tikka/ Sako Optilock, Millet, Kimber, Leupold etc. Not so impressed with Apel - which has a huge European reputation ( and price tag ). Every aluminium mount that goes on the hill seems to have problems. Add in sensible height - lots of people come with scopes - huge or not, mounted so far above the bore they need a sofa cushion taped to the stock - low is good.
4. Fixed power scopes - 4 to 6x range in 32-40 mm objective. The simpler the better - you want the costs spent on good lens, great coatings, solid tube, metal bearings on adjustment, solid tube/ body. Electronics, changable reticles, mega zoom ranges - all seem to detract from the fundamentals and just give another thing to fail. Scopes that never seem to give grief seem to be - Schimdt Bender, Leupold, the good Tasco production ( became very variable ), Nickel, Swarovski and reluctantly Zeiss ( production standards seem to very widely these days ).
Hope this is aiding rather than confusing.
Some good reading when starting out ( and later ) is Shots at Big Game by Craig Boddington and Make it Accurate by the same.
Just remember that building up to the purchase is half the fun. Dont let assorted complications/ dire warnings spoil it too much.
Scopes are an even bigger bone of contention than rifles at times. There is an addage 'you get what you pay for' and does seem to apply to scopes often.
That said, we are dealing with the human world again - I have seen three Zeiss scopes with broken reticles and at the other end know regular shooters who fitted Tasco a decade ago and havent touched the scope since!
Slightly embarrassed to admit that a I probably spent about £2000 on assorted 'nefarious' scopes and the ammo required to constantly re/ check zero before splashing out £250 on a Schimdt Bender and another £80 on good mounts 6 years ago - but rapidly recouped outlay in saved ammo and much reduced faffing about.
Simmons are very popular, but in experience of about a dozen of them on various full bore rifles I have found quality variable. All tended to have very short eye relief ( causing 'scoping to eyebrow if not careful ) and their image quality was not on a par with many scopes. But that is pretty narrow experience and I'm not really qualified to judge Simmons. Others have told me that Simmons reputation comes from extensive use on Air rifles where these arent such issues?
Similiarly, retail package deals, tend to be an ok way to start, but not ideal. At risk of sounding like a dodgy car salesman, with your rifle 'quality is remembered long after the price forgotten' is a truism. Selling off family members for organ parts etc is entirely morally justified when setting up a hunting rifle...
Not a Remington fan - but pure prejudice on my part. Have observed they in general need a bit of setting up and TLC to reach the love'm to pieces standard. Tikka/ Sako/ Browning are there virtually out of the box.
Coming at it from the other end, the guest rifles I see that cause the least grief and have least hiccups tend to follow a pattern -
1. Sensible calibre for matter in hand. Think already done that one. Guests arriving with a .460 G & A for Roe stalking send a real warning signal!!!
2. Stainless or fluted barrel - cant figure why, but guys with these all seem to fall into 'competant' class and have few shooting issues. Cant put finger on it and I have neither so ???
3. Steel fixed mounts with solid rings - Tikka/ Sako Optilock, Millet, Kimber, Leupold etc. Not so impressed with Apel - which has a huge European reputation ( and price tag ). Every aluminium mount that goes on the hill seems to have problems. Add in sensible height - lots of people come with scopes - huge or not, mounted so far above the bore they need a sofa cushion taped to the stock - low is good.
4. Fixed power scopes - 4 to 6x range in 32-40 mm objective. The simpler the better - you want the costs spent on good lens, great coatings, solid tube, metal bearings on adjustment, solid tube/ body. Electronics, changable reticles, mega zoom ranges - all seem to detract from the fundamentals and just give another thing to fail. Scopes that never seem to give grief seem to be - Schimdt Bender, Leupold, the good Tasco production ( became very variable ), Nickel, Swarovski and reluctantly Zeiss ( production standards seem to very widely these days ).
Hope this is aiding rather than confusing.
Some good reading when starting out ( and later ) is Shots at Big Game by Craig Boddington and Make it Accurate by the same.
I'll add a couple of things here,
Stainless because its raf less prone to rust than a blued barrel. Fluted because it reduces weight, allows a thicker barrel for the same weight and vents heat faster. Mainly weight though.
On the scope side, use the lowest mounts that give you 2mm under the forward bell. Keep your scope close to the bore as possible. If you are shooting in low light consider a 50mm objective and a 30mm tube over a 1" - both let more light through.
Think about the reticule you want. I am a firm fan of the mil dot - helps with range finding and hold over.
Lastly what they say- buy quality. My last scope cost about £500 but is worth every penny.
Leupold, S&B or Swarovski would be my choice
Red
Stainless because its raf less prone to rust than a blued barrel. Fluted because it reduces weight, allows a thicker barrel for the same weight and vents heat faster. Mainly weight though.
On the scope side, use the lowest mounts that give you 2mm under the forward bell. Keep your scope close to the bore as possible. If you are shooting in low light consider a 50mm objective and a 30mm tube over a 1" - both let more light through.
Think about the reticule you want. I am a firm fan of the mil dot - helps with range finding and hold over.
Lastly what they say- buy quality. My last scope cost about £500 but is worth every penny.
Leupold, S&B or Swarovski would be my choice
Red
Silverback
No Im not a member but have an acquaintance that is an instructor. Ive been put off joining due to other commitments, work/family etc. I am interested to know what level of knowledge you have to display at your interview to be invited to join and what the next step is.
Good luck, Pothunter.
No Im not a member but have an acquaintance that is an instructor. Ive been put off joining due to other commitments, work/family etc. I am interested to know what level of knowledge you have to display at your interview to be invited to join and what the next step is.
Good luck, Pothunter.
Ok mate no worries I will send you a comprehensive PM when I get back and give you the full SP
Regards
Dave
Hi Oakleaf and Red,
Thanks for the additional info on scopes etc. - very helpful.
I just wish I had a bigger budget
I can't really go much over $1000-$1200NZ at the moment, all-in. I just can't really afford it (family commitments etc.).
I was working for an outfit called Targetpest doing possum control in the mountains, but the company just went belly-up! Hopefully they'll be up and running again soon and I can get back to it and earn some more bucks, or find something else.
The job was also a really good way of getting hunting contacts and access to land so I'm gutted over that to.
If I could sus out posting photos, I'd show you some pics of the sort of landscape around here.
By the way, Red, You've got some really nice photos on your blog -EXCELLENT!
I appreciate all your help chaps. I'll let you know what I get (eventually!)
Cheers, J
Thanks for the additional info on scopes etc. - very helpful.
I just wish I had a bigger budget
I can't really go much over $1000-$1200NZ at the moment, all-in. I just can't really afford it (family commitments etc.).
I was working for an outfit called Targetpest doing possum control in the mountains, but the company just went belly-up! Hopefully they'll be up and running again soon and I can get back to it and earn some more bucks, or find something else.
The job was also a really good way of getting hunting contacts and access to land so I'm gutted over that to.
If I could sus out posting photos, I'd show you some pics of the sort of landscape around here.
By the way, Red, You've got some really nice photos on your blog -EXCELLENT!
I appreciate all your help chaps. I'll let you know what I get (eventually!)
Cheers, J
Gald you liked them Jamie,
I wrote a tutorial on image hosting that might help
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13734
- on a budget for a scope I suggest a good Tasco or a Simmons Whitetail
Red
I wrote a tutorial on image hosting that might help
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13734
- on a budget for a scope I suggest a good Tasco or a Simmons Whitetail
Red
Cheers for the tutorial Red. Here goes!
If it works, you should be able to see the gang about to work our way down a gully in the Benmore Range, Otago, South Island, NZ.
J
[/URL][/IMG]
If it works, you should be able to see the gang about to work our way down a gully in the Benmore Range, Otago, South Island, NZ.
J
It worked!
Here's a couple more from around the same area (Lake Benmore).
Can you spot the truck by the lake?
There are lots of Chamois in this area.
J
Here's a couple more from around the same area (Lake Benmore).
Can you spot the truck by the lake?
There are lots of Chamois in this area.
J
Zeiss is probably out of the question, but you could also look into Bushnell and Redfield optics, redfield are not to be underestimated.
The only centre fire rifle scopes I have owned are Weavers and I have no complaints. Most of my mates are using Leopold and again these serve them well.
My current scope is a 3-9 x 40 but I always have it set on 6 times. I wouldn't bother buying another varipower.
My current scope is a 3-9 x 40 but I always have it set on 6 times. I wouldn't bother buying another varipower.
The game that you are going to hunt a 308 is a good choice, although if you are giong to hunt pig probably a 3006 or similar will be a good choice as for a 243 you are limited to bullet weight for heavier game.
It all boils down to what you feel comfortable with if you choose a 3006 or 270 that has a little bit of a kick when it comes to recoil you may develope a flinch when you squeeze the trigger and accuracy will suffer and so will your confidence and trust in your rifle, if there is a club near to you my advice would be to visite it handle a few rifles but keep it simple you are looking for a tool to do a job not something over complicated with all the bells and wistles.
And always buy quality scopes
my current hunting rifles are
tikka t3 lite 3006 with schmidt & bender 6x42 scope
mannliker prohunter 308 with 6x42 schmidt & bender scope
Tikka laminated stainless 243 with schmidt & bender 6x42 scope
It all boils down to what you feel comfortable with if you choose a 3006 or 270 that has a little bit of a kick when it comes to recoil you may develope a flinch when you squeeze the trigger and accuracy will suffer and so will your confidence and trust in your rifle, if there is a club near to you my advice would be to visite it handle a few rifles but keep it simple you are looking for a tool to do a job not something over complicated with all the bells and wistles.
And always buy quality scopes
my current hunting rifles are
tikka t3 lite 3006 with schmidt & bender 6x42 scope
mannliker prohunter 308 with 6x42 schmidt & bender scope
Tikka laminated stainless 243 with schmidt & bender 6x42 scope
Jamie
Stopped posting for a bit as was getting too darn jealous after those pictures! Over it now... no really...
Appreciate dilemma of budgets etc, hopefully shooters in country will be a good source of advice - but make final decision yours and have confidence in it.
Can only emphasize that in my case ended up spending much more in dribs and drabs by compromising on the scope in particular.
Hope it works out - love to see more pictures some time... honest!
Stopped posting for a bit as was getting too darn jealous after those pictures! Over it now... no really...
Appreciate dilemma of budgets etc, hopefully shooters in country will be a good source of advice - but make final decision yours and have confidence in it.
Can only emphasize that in my case ended up spending much more in dribs and drabs by compromising on the scope in particular.
Hope it works out - love to see more pictures some time... honest!
Hi,
I'm hopefully looking to buy my first full-bore centrefire rifle soon and I'm wondering what calibre to go for. I'm thinking of a 7mm 08., .308Win, .270, .243 or similar.
I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice based on their experience with these or similar calibres. Which makes/models do you prefer. Has anyone got/used a Mossberg 100 ATR? What do you reckon?
I'll be wanting to use it for Red, Fallow, Sika, pigs and maybe other smaller game (goats, wallaby). I know there is no perfect choice, but which do you think is closest?
I'm in New Zealand and I know there will be lots of advice to be had here, but I'd still like to hear from folks back in the UK and elsewhere.
if this doesn't relate to a lot of you out there.
Thanks,
Jamie
Hi Jamie
Just to shed some light on your quest for a first riffle. I buy and sell firearms of
all types hear in the states. By far and away the most popular and longest lived
Is the .30-06 Springfield. And this is what I would recommend Get it in the 700 adl
Remington. It is less expensive then the 700 bdl But has the same action.
With the .30-06 you can go from 125 g to 230 g this will take anything in the world
Except African big game.
So have a good one. and keep them shooting
Randy in Texas
Hi All,
Thanks for all the feedback. Great stuff!
Looking at the choices I have actually seen and handled so far, I think I'm pretty set on the Remington 700 in .308 cal. (but that will probably change again when I look at a few more!). For the budget I have and the choices available it seems like a well built, lightweight and clean looking rifle. I will try to upgrade to a better scope (I think Wetherby might be an option) and may just go for a fixed power (6x?) rather than a variable. The general feeling seems to be that .308 is a good calibre for a range of game up to fairly large size, and has a good range of ammo loads and manufacturers and is fairly widely available.
Didn't mean to make you feel peeved about the photos Oakleaf , but here's a few more for you (as requested!). They show the type of terrain round here, which is generally very open and not at all like the native bush on the West Coast. I bet it's really lovely where you are too Oak!
The last pic is a bit "Texas Chainsaw Massacre"ish! Taken next to a main road as we were driving around one day. Very strange!
WOW! Just as I was typing this, the Police phoned and said they would come tomorrow to do the vetting process, so I should soon be another step closer to getting my weapon of choice!
Cheers for now,
J
Thanks for all the feedback. Great stuff!
Looking at the choices I have actually seen and handled so far, I think I'm pretty set on the Remington 700 in .308 cal. (but that will probably change again when I look at a few more!). For the budget I have and the choices available it seems like a well built, lightweight and clean looking rifle. I will try to upgrade to a better scope (I think Wetherby might be an option) and may just go for a fixed power (6x?) rather than a variable. The general feeling seems to be that .308 is a good calibre for a range of game up to fairly large size, and has a good range of ammo loads and manufacturers and is fairly widely available.
Didn't mean to make you feel peeved about the photos Oakleaf
, but here's a few more for you (as requested!). They show the type of terrain round here, which is generally very open and not at all like the native bush on the West Coast. I bet it's really lovely where you are too Oak! The last pic is a bit "Texas Chainsaw Massacre"ish! Taken next to a main road as we were driving around one day. Very strange!
WOW! Just as I was typing this, the Police phoned and said they would come tomorrow to do the vetting process, so I should soon be another step closer to getting my weapon of choice!
Cheers for now,
J
Similar threads
