Where to use a wood-burning trail stove

[Toadflax]

Following on from Eric Methven's recent thread where he says:

You get some weird looks from regular picnickers, but that's not a problem (for me at least) and it has started the odd interesting conversation from time to time. I've only had a Ranger check me out on two occasions, but when they saw what I was using, and when I explained what it was and how it worked they were fine with it. If I'd lit a fire, I'd have not only been told to put it out, I may also have been prosecuted.

I was wondering about peoples' experience (and legalities) of where you can use such a thing (particularly those of us not in Scotland). I've recently started using my crusader cup/stove with hexy blocks when I go out for a bimble and I'd be fairly happy that nobody is going to complain, or at least I can show that it is very low impact. I'd probably feel less confident in explaining burning wood, even if it is in a contained unit.

Any thoughts?


Geoff

 

[Ogri the trog]

I have nothing to back up my reply but you asked for thoughts.....
Up to now I have never been asked to put a fire out nor to refrain from having one (by a Ranger/Warden etc - I have obeyed signs that call for "No Open Fires"). I have been "glanced at" in much that same way as Eric mentions - vehicle pulls up, door opens, semi-irate person exits and sees my small fire in a container - person turns and enters vehicle and drives off with a wave out of the window.
I know that Rangers are not out to cause menace, merely to be aware of things going on in their area of responsibility and report the actions of those out to cause damage. If you in turn show that you are being responsible - fire in a grate, a few handfuls of fallen twigs and a tidy area on departure, I cannot see that there is a whole lot to worry about. If you can show that you are minimising the liklihood of your fire spreading and taking care to minimise scar/trace then I think you are unlikely to warrant their attention.
Also, without wanting to enter an arguement, I wonder why you feel the Hexy is better to burn than wood? With all its associated polution etc, I would have thought that wood should be the ideal choice unless there is no natural fuel available.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Toadflax]

Thanks, Ogri, some useful thoughts there. Some of it is a confidence thing - I don't want people hassling me when I'm making a cup of tea, so I want to be low visibility, but I expect that I'll build up the confidence to use a small wood burner in time.

I wasn't intending to advocate hexy as being better than wood, simply that I felt that passers by would be more likely to ignore hexy in a crusader cooker unit than wood smoke. I'd rather use 'natural' wood than 'unnatural' hexy, but I need to feel comfortable that I'm not going to be hassled. I want to enjoy my bushcraft, not be looking over my shoulder all the time to see if people are 'checking up' on me.


Geoff

 

[Ogri the trog]

I felt that passers by would be more likely to ignore hexy in a crusader cooker unit than wood smoke.
Geoff

A good point and very valid,
Being up in the wild Welsh hills, I often don't appreciate how much hassle can be implicit in the busier parts of the country. Since I gave up the demon weed, my sense of smell can be astonishingly good - so Hexy would draw my attention a lot sooner than wood smoke - although smoke in the woods is always worth investigating.
I have on occasion, supprised dog walkers by offering a cuppa as they walk past my quiet spot - even more so if upon refusal, you shake the last of your tea out of the cup and with a few deft moves have everything packed away and can walk along with them - they want to see where all that gear has gone.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Wallenstein]

Part of the countryside code that's drummed into people is "guard against all risk of fire".

Clearly a small burn in a hobo stove etc isn't going to present much of a risk, but certainly when I was at school it was a case of "even a match can be bad".

I think a lot of people's reactions are based on that "no fires, ever" mindset.

 

[bigjackbrass]

If you in turn show that you are being responsible - fire in a grate, a few handfuls of fallen twigs and a tidy area on departure...

That's particularly important, I think. There's an assumption that if you're burning wood then you must be stripping (or even felling!) trees and thus a vandal. Having an appropriate, tidy fire demonstrates a degree of skill and responsibility and that definitely helps. My creaky old folding pocket stove, horrendous lump of metal though it is, needs very little in the way of wood to get things boiling, so passers-by are generally interested rather than outraged.

Like so many things it often comes down to how you present yourself, your attitude to the people you meet and the respect you show for the environment you're sharing. It probably doesn't hurt to have someone like Ray Mears prominently demonstrating good practice through the popular media either, since it makes us all look a bit less eccentric I'm planning to walk across Scotland next year and expect to be taking a small wood stove with me then.

 

[Eric_Methven]

Part of the countryside code that's drummed into people is "guard against all risk of fire".

Clearly a small burn in a hobo stove etc isn't going to present much of a risk, but certainly when I was at school it was a case of "even a match can be bad".

I think a lot of people's reactions are based on that "no fires, ever" mindset.

I think it was more like "even a discarded match can be bad". Fire is OK if you know what you are doing, and take every precaution to stop it from causing damage. The trouble is nowadays, in this age of central heating, gas and electric fires and such like, people rarely see a proper fire. I get it all the time when I'm doing living history. We set up the camp, set up the fire tray, light the fire and within two minutes someone asks us a)Is it a real fire? or b) Isn't that dangerous? I've seen little kids run screaming round their parent's legs when I start a campfire (even though we've got it roped off from the public) because they've never actually seen one before and all they associate fire with is danger as has been drummed into them. Sad!

Eric

 

[SimonM]

all they associate fire with is danger

I have first hand experience of this.

About 3 years we moved to a house with an open fire. Our youngest, then just over 4, was terrified that the house would burn down.

We showed him how the fire was laid, demonstrated the fire guard and had the local Fire Brigade fit a smoke alarm and do a fire safety audit.

Now he cleans the hearth, lays the fire and lights it on his own - education and a common sense approach won the day.

I also use a hobo stove when out and about and regularly use it to make brews for our local woodlands officer - It would be rude not to as he sorted out my bushy area for me!

Simon

 

[webbie]

I think it was more like "even a discarded match can be bad". Fire is OK if you know what you are doing, and take every precaution to stop it from causing damage. The trouble is nowadays, in this age of central heating, gas and electric fires and such like, people rarely see a proper fire. I get it all the time when I'm doing living history. We set up the camp, set up the fire tray, light the fire and within two minutes someone asks us a)Is it a real fire? or b) Isn't that dangerous? I've seen little kids run screaming round their parent's legs when I start a campfire (even though we've got it roped off from the public) because they've never actually seen one before and all they associate fire with is danger as has been drummed into them. Sad!

Eric

got to totally agree with you there eric, as a scout leader i have seen some things like this all the time due to a bad education when it comes to fire and the outdoors

 

[Toadflax]

I've been trying to do some more research on this, but really not finding any information at all (and if this has been covered in other threads, then please say so - and I do know how to use the search facility). To be fair, I don't need to do this, but I'd like to go out occasionally into the local woods or countryside, light up my Kelly Kettle or Hobo Stove and have a cup of tea, using a few bits of dead twig that I've gathered. I may be anticipating problems that aren't there, but what I don't want to do is to go out, light up the Kelly Kettle and in the worst case get arrested, in a better case get other people hassling me.

Many of the 'wild' areas round here are nature reserves, private woods for which you can get an access permit, or footpaths /rights of way. If I use a hexy stove or a trangia, then I'd feel pretty confident that even if I was in the wrong using it, people would probably say something to me but take it no further. If I was using a hobo stove burning wood, I suspect that people would be more likely to take it further, simply because it would be perceived by Joe Public as an open fire.

I haven't been able to find anything that defines the difference between an open fire and a stove - though the difference is clear to me - but I suspect that most non-bushcrafters would regard burning wood (even in an enclosed container) as an open fire. Then again, if you regard a hobo stove as a stove not an open fire, I still haven't been able to find anything that says whether or not you can use a camping stove in typical English countryside.

So after all this rambling about the point, does anybody know of any guidelines /regulations regarding the use of camping stoves in the English countryside and whether or not a hobo stove would class as a camping stove? Or am I just obsessed with "doing the right thing"?

Apologies if I'm boring everyone with this.


Geoff

 

[match]

One of the common reasons why fires aren't generally permitted on sites is that there is no way to test the aptitude of the fire-maker in advance. I've spoken to rangers when asking about having a fire/stove, and been told 'I don't mind if you do it, as we've talked and I know you're clued up, but make sure no passerby sees you in case they decide a pile of dry grass, some logs and a can of petrol is how you have a fire in the woods'.

If I'm ever out camping and have a fire going (and yes, this is Scotland, so it is more common) if someone stops to talk to me about it I always make a point of telling them how I'm maintaining the fire, what precautions I'm taking etc. This does two things - helps to appease worried passersby that I'm not going to burn down their woods, and also make over-enthusiastic youngsters stop and think what 'just setting fire to stuff' actually entails.

Most importantly, always remember that some folk just can't be convinced, and you should always be prepared to put a fire out immediately, pack up your things and move off. No cup of tea is worth aggravated incidents and annoyed rangers/police when they get called out unnecessarily!

 

[brancho]

I have first hand experience of this.

About 3 years we moved to a house with an open fire. Our youngest, then just over 4, was terrified that the house would burn down.

I see 10 year olds in Scouts terrfified of matches.:yikes:

In extended dry periods if we ever get any a trangia or hexy may safer though as flying sparks could be a percieved problem as well.