Burning wet logs / woods

[Paul_B]

In the past you could burn any coal or wood in open fires. Then you had smokeless zones and fuel. Then it's become rare to even find coal. Then there's a requirement for wood burners to a standard / efficiency level. Will there be a time when like smoke-free zones, there's going to be a woodburner free zone? Will there be a times up for burning any solid or liquid fuel in certain areas?

 

[Ystranc]

In Wales it isn’t uncommon to smell coal smoke, coal was king here for so long and sometimes it takes something seismic to shift the opinions of old folks. I have a great Aunt up in Bala who still burns coal.

 

[slowworm]

In the past you could burn any coal or wood in open fires. Then you had smokeless zones and fuel. Then it's become rare to even find coal. Then there's a requirement for wood burners to a standard / efficiency level. Will there be a time when like smoke-free zones, there's going to be a woodburner free zone? Will there be a times up for burning any solid or liquid fuel in certain areas?

Like many things at the moment it may depend on this winter. If we get a prolonged period of high pressure (so cold, foggy and still) there may well be quite prolonged power outages so no central heating and no electric heating. Any government would be hard pressed to hand wood burners after that.

If any laws are introduced I doubt they will be that sensible or make much difference for a long time. Are there many prosecutions these days for smoke control zone violations? I don't think there was despite loads of people using wood in open fires and non-exempt stoves.

 

[spader]

If your stove is in the condition you describe... its definatly not a good idea!

Why do you want to heat a wooden shed? Better to try to insulate your home better and wear more clothes inside the home than burn your shed down or suffer carbon monoxide poisoning.

I have taken some measures to further insulate my home. Bubble wrap on bathroom, toilet and front and back door windows, (even if double glazed) makes a difference.

Old rugs on the floor to add insulation to it underfoot.

Door curtains, I'm using old broom handles, and curtain rings I got from the charity shop for a pound for 20. A couple of large cup hooks to hold the pole up and you are away.

Draught excluders are easy to make, a pair of old Jean legs, can be stuffed with t shirts or other clothes you are not wearing . I made one from jeans that had a hole in the knee, patched that, and sewed up the ends of the legs. Hey presto! Draught excluder. They don't have to be pretty, just effective.

If you want to put the burner in the shed and make a warm space, I would be tempted to buy a new stove and proper shed flashing kit. Plus a carbon monoxide alarm. A lot cheaper than burning down your shed or suffering cm poisoning, and possible termination of your life.
If you can't afford a new stove, get a new flue pipe for it, plus a proper flashing kit, and the tester as a bare minimum. If you can't afford that, don't do it!

Is it worth heating an uninsulated shed? You'd be surprised how much wood you'd need to burn, and also I would recommend cleaning the flue pipe weekly to make sure there is no carbon build up and resulting disastrous chimney fire, if you do go ahead.

Personaly I'd not be using it in your scenario, if you've left it to get rusty in the garden instead of taking care of it, and putting it away when not in use, it's only gonna be safe in an open environment, not a closed shed.

Another tip..never install a woodstove near a doorway... always make sure you are between the stove and the door, so you have a clear exit in an emergency, so install it at the back of a shed.

Good point. My old wooden garden shed is very damp inside during winter, hence it could do with some heating to dry out the dampness. But I didn't want to spend too much for new stove or electric heating for it. After all it is an old shed which needing replaced sooner or later, and its main purpose is to store some garden tools and wood working tools too.

I managed to get a new metal shed and assembled it next to the old wooden shed, moved some tools and shelves from the old to the new shed. Now the old shed has some space to go in and work on making and repairing things in it. It has an old electric heater in the corner, and when it is on, it gets warm and comfortable to work in there.

But I was also thinking if wood burner would be better idea because it will be putting out more heat, and would be cheaper to run.

My old Wildo portable stove is originally supposed to have been designed by Norwegian military, and it is really for setting up and running in the fields, so it is made to be left outdoors for long period of time, but still nothing really can last in constant damp and rain for 10+ years. It might have done its life I thought, but it is still solid all around the body of the stove, but has about 1 inch of the pipe where it connects to the stove is missing with the corrosion. The rest of the pipe is also solid, seem will last for many more years. I am intending to repair the pipe either by welding or rivetting a strip of cut metal piece around the missing area, and it will be working fine. It had been used as a forge for blacksmithing without the pipes, and worked great. It is light and small, so is ideal to run in wooden shed. Being small and light stove means it is east to set up, flexible and safer provided the wall behind is covered with the fire bricks mortared in and has good flue pipe installed correctly. It would be easier than large heavy stove, I feel.
So far having wood burner in the old wooden shed is just an idea, and I am still using the old electric heater paying 4 times more electricity price than previous winters.

PS: We have the over night electric storage heaters in the house, so they are OK. They store the heat during the nights for cheap rates, and give out the stored heat during the days.

 

[neoaliphant]

Our primary heat source for heating the cottage and cooking is wood

Excellent choice, I have an Esse.a bigger one with 3 ovens
it heats half the house, dries clothes, heats most hot water, bakes wonderfull bread

in fact we bought a cottage just we could have an esse...

i pay about £600 a year for about 4 tonne of firewood, which does all heating and cooking in various stoves...

a lot of people are converting oil/gas ranges to electric, but with an electricity smartmeter you can see the pennies whoosh past with those.

 

[Woody girl]

I do miss my old cottage and wood/coal burning aga. We lived in the kitchen which was huge and we had armchairs by the aga which we sat next to in the winter. Toasty warm, though there was no electric upstairs, so to bed with a wee willy winkle candle holder, hot water bottles, wrapped ourselves up in woollen dressing gowns , and warm cotton pj's, warmed by the aga, and into bed tut sweet!
It was tough the first winter, but oh I do remember those days fondly.
One cold water tap in the scullery, and every bit of water heated on the aga in huge kettles.
I still have those kettles, tin bath, and candle holders, though the mangle for the hand washing, and wooden clothes horse that we put towels on to warm and provide a bit of privacy round the tin bath, in front of the aga, have long gone.
That was the early 80's too!... (1980s, not 1880s .) I don't think I'm cut out for modern life.

 

[neoaliphant]

I do miss my old cottage and wood/coal burning aga. We lived in the kitchen which was huge and we had armchairs by the aga which we sat next to in the winter. Toasty warm, though there was no electric upstairs, so to bed with a wee willy winkle candle holder, hot water bottles, wrapped ourselves up in woollen dressing gowns , and warm cotton pj's, warmed by the aga, and into bed tut sweet!
It was tough the first winter, but oh I do remember those days fondly.
One cold water tap in the scullery, and every bit of water heated on the aga in huge kettles.
I still have those kettles, tin bath, and candle holders, though the mangle for the hand washing, and wooden clothes horse that we put towels on to warm and provide a bit of privacy round the tin bath, in front of the aga, have long gone.
That was the early 80's too!... (1980s, not 1880s .) I don't think I'm cut out for modern life.

first winter in the cottage, we were frugal with the little oil remaining as we knew we were going to swop pil range for an esse, so average temp over winter was 10 degrees, even now plenty of blankets and jumpers is best way, took out all the radiators to make more space,

but the electric blanket is a bit of a luxury that i wont do without, quick dash upstairs at night....

 

[British Red]

I do miss my old cottage and wood/coal burning aga. We lived in the kitchen which was huge and we had armchairs by the aga which we sat next to in the winter. Toasty warm, though there was no electric upstairs, so to bed with a wee willy winkle candle holder, hot water bottles, wrapped ourselves up in woollen dressing gowns , and warm cotton pj's, warmed by the aga, and into bed tut sweet!
It was tough the first winter, but oh I do remember those days fondly.
One cold water tap in the scullery, and every bit of water heated on the aga in huge kettles.
I still have those kettles, tin bath, and candle holders, though the mangle for the hand washing, and wooden clothes horse that we put towels on to warm and provide a bit of privacy round the tin bath, in front of the aga, have long gone.
That was the early 80's too!... (1980s, not 1880s .) I don't think I'm cut out for modern life.

We still have the mangle - and the clothes horse is up right now!

 

[Woody girl]

We still have the mangle - and the clothes horse is up right now!

I wish I still had mine!
I hate you.

I've just had the stepdaughter on the phone crying into her wine glass, totaly drunk, bemoaning the loss of her comfortable life. Telling me how she can't afford the mortgage or posh 4x4 car repayments, or afford a holiday abroad this year, and Turkey prices are out of reach. She didn't take well to my suggestion to sell the car, cancel the holiday and have something other than a Turkey for Xmas lunch.... and stop buying wine!!!
She's been so smug about how well she's been doing, how she'd improved herself compared to how I live, and I was a lazy *** for not working harder and improving my life, she has never had to do any hard physical work like I've done. For her, it's been a cushy well paid job and never a struggle.
Hitting home hard now for her.

I still have the tin bath, a woodburner and a plastic clothes horse... so I know I could manage comfortably.... she'd be horrified!
Sometimes, the old ways of being content with less, pay off.
Dry logs, a fire, water, a tin bath...what more do I need?...a wooden clothes horse and a mangel.


Sorry for the thread hijack there, just a bit upset and had to vent somewhere. Forgot where I was for a moment.

 

[British Red]

Sorry for the thread hijack there, just a bit upset and had to vent somewhere. Forgot where I was for a moment.

There's a huge contentment in the feeling of "enough". Fiona and I often say that contentment is a hugely underrated emotion. I feel so sorry for those fighting huge mortgages & spiralling prices. Society has been promoting "growth" over stability and a "housing ladder" over homes for decades. Even now after we gained half a million new people industries cry out for nore cheap labour. Its so hard for people & truly a rat race with no winners

 

[Ystranc]

I wish I still had mine!
I hate you.

I've just had the stepdaughter on the phone crying into her wine glass, totaly drunk, bemoaning the loss of her comfortable life. Telling me how she can't afford the mortgage or posh 4x4 car repayments, or afford a holiday abroad this year, and Turkey prices are out of reach. She didn't take well to my suggestion to sell the car, cancel the holiday and have something other than a Turkey for Xmas lunch.... and stop buying wine!!!
She's been so smug about how well she's been doing, how she'd improved herself compared to how I live, and I was a lazy *** for not working harder and improving my life, she has never had to do any hard physical work like I've done. For her, it's been a cushy well paid job and never a struggle.
Hitting home hard now for her.

I still have the tin bath, a woodburner and a plastic clothes horse... so I know I could manage comfortably.... she'd be horrified!
Sometimes, the old ways of being content with less, pay off.
Dry logs, a fire, water, a tin bath...what more do I need?...a wooden clothes horse and a mangel.


Sorry for the thread hijack there, just a bit upset and had to vent somewhere. Forgot where I was for a moment.

No problem, we also have some family members who have much further to fall than us because they’ve chosen a less resilient lifestyle. It’s upsetting but what can you do? It’s happening everywhere.

 

[SaraR]

There's a huge contentment in the feeling of "enough". Fiona and I often say that contentment is a hugely underrated emotion. I feel so sorry for those fighting huge mortgages & spiralling prices. Society has been promoting "growth" over stability and a "housing ladder" over homes for decades. Even now after we gained half a million new people industries cry out for nore cheap labour. Its so hard for people & truly a rat race with no winners

Contentment is absolutely one of the best emotions there is!

And to keep to topic, at what point is wet wood (whole, round sections of trunk/big branches) that's been lying on the ground beyond rescue for use as fuel?

 

[Broch]

Contentment is absolutely one of the best emotions there is!

And to keep to topic, at what point is wet wood (whole, round sections of trunk/big branches) that's been lying on the ground beyond rescue for use as fuel?

That depends on the wood; some rot really quickly and some last for years. There's more to seasoning than just drying. There's a change in the cellular structure of the wood over time that makes it easier to burn. Ash drops below 15% moisture very quickly and will burn well but 'seasoned' for a year and it is better fuel. But, when wood is left damp for long periods of time, fungal and bacterial decay removes so much from the wood that there is little 'energy' value left in it. If it's dry you can tell straight away; there's just no weight in the wood. It will burn very fast and not provide much heat.

In my experience, wood that has become very heavy with water (i.e. it has absorbed water from the ground and rain) and been left for more than a few months, has gone beyond its best even when dried out. Is it of value? that depends how much good stuff you've got instead.

 

[Ystranc]

Contentment is absolutely one of the best emotions there is!

And to keep to topic, at what point is wet wood (whole, round sections of trunk/big branches) that's been lying on the ground beyond rescue for use as fuel?

Well rotten wood has less calorific value but it’s going to depend on what kind of tree it is from and how rotten as to whether it’s beyond use. Birch is one of the quickest to go punky and become useless but if it’s cut, split and stacked the same day it is also one of the quickest to dry

 

[SaraR]

That depends on the wood; some rot really quickly and some last for years. There's more to seasoning than just drying. There's a change in the cellular structure of the wood over time that makes it easier to burn. Ash drops below 15% moisture very quickly and will burn well but 'seasoned' for a year and it is better fuel. But, when wood is left damp for long periods of time, fungal and bacterial decay removes so much from the wood that there is little 'energy' value left in it. If it's dry you can tell straight away; there's just no weight in the wood. It will burn very fast and not provide much heat.

In my experience, wood that has become very heavy with water (i.e. it has absorbed water from the ground and rain) and been left for more than a few months, has gone beyond its best even when dried out. Is it of value? that depends how much good stuff you've got instead.

I know what you mean about the no weight in wood that's decayed too far. I've just not really thought about trying to save logs that have been left lying about before, but now that we've got a ridiculous amount in the garden I started wondering if it would be of any use if stacked up a bit better and covered on top. To be fair a lot of it has been loosely stacked (so off the ground) and somewhat covered by trees, bushes and branches, so might not be that bad - although we do get a lot of rain here... We don't have a log burner in the house, so it would be for outdoor use on the patio/in the fire pit. But I also just wondered in general as it's not something I've had to think about before - something I like about BCUK

 

[neoaliphant]

a variety of wood is good, as sometimes you need to get a good blast of heat going, lots of variables, draughts, wind conditions, pressure,
often we have softwood, and even punky wood, anything burnable.

reminds me of the blast of heat in the steamengine in back to the future part 3, with the smoke changing colour coming out of the chimney.

got a free pile of wood that was 50 years sat there untouched, very punky, still burnt....
why waste wood...

when the stiorms hit last year, good job bucksaw in teh car, back seat piled up with windfall....

somepeople say not to start a fire with newspaper, i say its a way of recycling....

 

[neoaliphant]

Also if you have a multi oven range, the small oven makes a great kiln to dry out wood if you have some spare heat going, outr wood range is on every day in winter just to warm up the house, let along cooking, so it often kiln drys some wood.

I cants ee the point in having a wood fire, and paying someone to use gas to prebake wood for you when we can season it ourselves....goes against the principle of having wood heating/cooking

 

[spader]

I have been thinking about installing the wood burner in the shed. I have loads of recycled bricked piled in the garden too. They will be mortared for making a surround at the back and side of the wood burner, and the chimney will have to be going out through the wall with some metal panel around it, and secured at the corners.

The wet logs in the bins seem drying well. It is good to have somewhere to work for DIY repairs and making stuff outdoors. And it is good to have roof and walls warmed with some cheap heats. And for the cheap heatings, electricity and gas are nomore.

 

[Ystranc]

I have been thinking about installing the wood burner in the shed. I have loads of recycled bricked piled in the garden too. They will be mortared for making a surround at the back and side of the wood burner, and the chimney will have to be going out through the wall with some metal panel around it, and secured at the corners.

The wet logs in the bins seem drying well. It is good to have somewhere to work for DIY repairs and making stuff outdoors. And it is good to have roof and walls warmed with some cheap heats. And for the cheap heatings, electricity and gas are nomore.

An external flue pipe is the worst possible option as it will be very cold and initially refuse to draw. If possible it is far better to pass the flue vertically through the roof, it will draw better.

 

[British Red]

I'm really only expressing a view that if the 95% of households with woodburners have alternative heating solutions then even the modem ones are still a bad idea vs a cleaner heating system.

I assume that you don't classify a heating system relying on natural gas, lpg, or coal fired power stations as a "cleaner heating system"? Surely no-one thinks that burning fossil fuels is an improvement over short cycle coppice firewood?