Whats wrong with axes?

[archie3]

After looking around at various bushcraft courses I am amazed at how anally retentive most providers are about the use of axes. Phrases like "under no circumstances must an axe be used on this course". For instance the Woodsmoke Woodlander course 5 days in a forest and not an axe in sight!! I am fairly new to bushcraft but i would have thought that the use of an axe is a fundamental bushcraft skill. I know about the problems with insurance. But with suitable training an axe is probably as useful if not more useful than a knife. I was lucky enough to attend a course with a survival trainer who welcomed the use of axes.
Where would Ray Mears be without his Granfors Bruk small forest axe?

 

[MattW]

Hmm, hope you aren't a troll....

Anyway.
There's nothing wrong with axes.
However, there's no denying that it's really easy to injure yourself with an axe (especially a short axe) if you don't know what you're doing. This makes it very difficult and expensive to get insurance for a course which intends to use them. To make these courses economically viable, it's probably easier to just not use them.

Also remember that there is much more to bushcraft than axes (or indeed any cutting tool).

cheers
Matt

 

[BorderReiver]

Yep,public liability.

Some dick head injures himself by ignoring instructions and then goes on to blame the course providers and sue.

Way of the world these days unfortunately.

 

[Jared]

After looking around at various bushcraft courses I am amazed at how anally retentive most providers are about the use of axes. Phrases like "under no circumstances must an axe be used on this course". For instance the Woodsmoke Woodlander course 5 days in a forest and not an axe in sight!! I am fairly new to bushcraft but i would have thought that the use of an axe is a fundamental bushcraft skill. I know about the problems with insurance. But with suitable training an axe is probably as useful if not more useful than a knife. I was lucky enough to attend a course with a survival trainer who welcomed the use of axes.
Where would Ray Mears be without his Granfors Bruk small forest axe?

Proper organised/commercially ran bushcraft courses need insurance.
The insurances companies probably charge alot more if axes are around, I'd guess.

A local conservation group was insured for hand tools only. No power tools, chainsaws and the like.

 

[steve a]

Because an axe is the most dangerous tool used in bushcraft, to use one proficiently takes years of practice, Woodlore do allow you to use an axe on their courses provided you have completed the camp craft course where you are taught how to use one safely. Woodsmoke run an axe course. The number of times people who cut themselves with a knife on courses is quite high, if everyone was allowed to use an axe on a fundamental courses the number of four fingered, six toed, split shins pupils would send the schools insurance even higher, never mind leaving themselves open to legal action from the student.
In the Uk an axe is not really needed on most courses, people, both student and instructor get by fine enough with just a saw and a knife.Learn to use those tools properly first, then see how often you need to use an axe.

 

[Lurch]

what's wrong with axe's

This kind of thing happens to the complacent
http://www.gunculture.net/images/uploads/pinkyscab.jpg Not for the squeamish.
Or a more sanitised version.

The tin foil is there because the hospital cut my nail off in order to remove some bone to shorten my finger allowing enough remaining flesh to fold over the wound.
That was just a little slip and quite small beer in axe-ident terms but it was a year ago more or less to the day and my finger still hurts a wee bit.

 

[Goliath]

This kind of thing happens to the complacent
http://www.gunculture.net/images/uploads/pinkyscab.jpg Not for the squeamish.
Or a more sanitised version.

The tin foil is there because the hospital cut my nail off in order to remove some bone to shorten my finger allowing enough remaining flesh to fold over the wound.
That was just a little slip and quite small beer in axe-ident terms but it was a year ago more or less to the day and my finger still hurts a wee bit.

Eew.. That wound suits your avatar tho.

 

[wilts-bushcraft]

i run small courses for the local council and private clients and i wont let people participating use their own cutting tools as some (if a small number) turn up with all manner of junk often blunt too large or not fit for purpose, to solve this problem i issue a frosts mora and DO NOT let anybody use an axe as the public liability and my company insurance increases by £400 a year as the risk of injury is quite a lot higher.
so i think it should be up to the course provider wheather or not to allow axes.
i do think your right as to the axe being a large part of bustcraft but so is safety!!
if you can split wood with your knife and saw large enough for your fire for a weekend why carry it anyway ???
there are for,s and againsts with this thread so i,ll step down off my soap box for now
kudos for asking though !!!!

 

[w00dsmoke]

Hmm, hope you aren't a troll....

Anyway.
There's nothing wrong with axes.
However, there's no denying that it's really easy to injure yourself with an axe (especially a short axe) if you don't know what you're doing. This makes it very difficult and expensive to get insurance for a course which intends to use them. To make these courses economically viable, it's probably easier to just not use them.

Also remember that there is much more to bushcraft than axes (or indeed any cutting tool).

cheers
Matt

I absolutley agree and I dare to say that there are few people actually trained and certified in the use of axes ... but I still prefer my billhook!

It's quite interesting to note that on forestry courses there used to be a specific module on sharpening bladed tools and one separate one on bladed hand tools that the axe fell under.


When I was in my teens while chopping firewood with a blunt axe in a bothy it bounced off a knot and sliced through my thumb since then I've seen inumerable injuries due to the improper use of blades some of them quite funny in a sick kind of way...e.g. I once saw a smart bottom guy swing a bill hook around while attempting to use the back blade and the point stuck right into his forehead! pmsl It was one of those clever dumb balance is restored moments!

Anyway I did the training and was a bit more proficient with axes after it!

 

[twisted firestarter]

There is something about a top heavy and bulky axe that seems to predispose it to bouncing off wood sideways. In my experience a billhook is less likely to do so. Maybe it's something to do with the thinner blade and more even weight?

 

[Jared]

since then I've seen inumerable injuries due to the improper use of blades some of them quite funny in a sick kind of way...e.g. I once saw a smart bottom guy swing a bill hook around while attempting to use the back blade and the point stuck right into his forehead! pmsl It was one of those clever dumb balance is restored moments!

Anyway I did the training and was a bit more proficient with axes after it!

Haven't seen that many, considering used to be out with a bunch of people with varing degrees of experience every weekend for a good few years.

Worse incident with a blade, was 2 teenagers turned up one weekend. The job was to coppice some trees at a railway enbankment, pretty steep slope. They got the tree down fine, but couldn't move it. One had a bright idea, picked up a billhook, and started limbing. Unfortunately did check where his mate was, billhook went straight through the branch, and followed through into his mates wrist. Fortunately missed arturies and nerves.

 

[demographic]

After looking around at various bushcraft courses I am amazed at how anally retentive most providers are about the use of axes. Phrases like "under no circumstances must an axe be used on this course". For instance the Woodsmoke Woodlander course 5 days in a forest and not an axe in sight!! I am fairly new to bushcraft but i would have thought that the use of an axe is a fundamental bushcraft skill. I know about the problems with insurance. But with suitable training an axe is probably as useful if not more useful than a knife. I was lucky enough to attend a course with a survival trainer who welcomed the use of axes.
Where would Ray Mears be without his Granfors Bruk small forest axe?

I am pretty sure that Ben and Lisa run an axe course if thats what floats your boat.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Ah, the SIMPLE LITTLE AXE.

Way too many idiots ... oops ... um ... I mean ... people ... think it is so easy to use - because it's such a simple tool!

Well, reality soon BITES them. Inattention, distraction, not knowing what is around them, a bounce, deflection, bad aim, abuse, bad technique, poor edge, poor or inappropriate handle, and any number of other things can and will soon lead to an injury. With an axe, it just happens quicker.

Few people would question a training session and competancy test befor someone could use a chainsaw, but most won't think twice about handing someone an axe to use. Like any tool, some training/skill/experience is needed to be safe using an axe. - no matter how simple it looks.

I've seen a person hit himselve in the back of the head when chopping wood (the axe head was too heavy to hold upright - of so he said). I've also seen several people stick the axe into a chunk of wood trying to split it, and then rock the axe back and forth to work it loose - and rock it right into their other hand placed onto the wood for leverage to push against. Several minor "pinches", and several deep cuts. I've also seen gashed shins, split toes, sliced fingers, and a big slash in on **** from falling/stumbling backwards and using the hand with the axe to "break their fall". No, I'm not too squeamish about blood - unless it's my own. And I know the signs and feelings of SHOCK setting in.

So the reasons that schools and camps restrict the use of cutting instruments, until proper training or competancy testing is done, are well known to me. My personal opinion is to let Darwin's Theory work! But, those pesky survivors, and their lawyers, won't let that theory be the final word.

So goes the modern "nanny" society.

Just my humble thoughts to share.

Mike - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands