Whats the best grind for your ideal bushcraft knife?

[C_Claycomb]

With regard to the bevel on the Woodlore knives. They started out as pure flat Scandi. As has been said, Alan found them a pain to do free hand, but that wasn't the chief reason to changing to the mild hollow.

Shinken has it right that people were not getting the full bevel on the stone, then returning the knives to Alan for re-grinding. The very shallow hollow was not intended to remain there long, just long enough to make sharpening easier for beginners, they only had to remove metal from the edge and the point where the bevel met the blade's flats.
(see Alan's interview in issue 3 of the BCUK magazine)

While I knew that things like the Kellam Wolverine are ground on large, hard wheels such that they don't appear hollow (multiple offset passes), I was recently told that the Fallkniven knives are also ground on hard wheels, convex and all

 

[Rhodri]

Shinken has it right that people were not getting the full bevel on the stone, then returning the knives to Alan for re-grinding. The very shallow hollow was not intended to remain there long, just long enough to make sharpening easier for beginners, they only had to remove metal from the edge and the point where the bevel met the blade's flats.
(see Alan's interview in issue 3 of the BCUK magazine)

I do that with a few of mine, but it isn't that pretty. It works well... but it isn't pretty. I'd hazard a guess that most people will have been trying to flatten the bevel completely - and removing unecessary metal.

I was recently told that the Fallkniven knives are also ground on hard wheels, convex and all

Strewth! There's either some very skillful blokes in that factory or a very big scrap bin. My money's on the former, but perhaps they all start out as A2s and just end up as some of the others...

 

[redneck]

Just to be awkward, I think the sabre grind is much better, it's got all the attributes of a flat and scandi rolled into one..

 

[C_Claycomb]

Just to be awkward, I think the sabre grind is much better, it's got all the attributes of a flat and scandi rolled into one..

The grind that I have heard called a sabre grind does combine the scandi and the flat, but you lose the advantages of both and merely gain strength in exchange for cutting ability. The grind that I am thinking of, and have heard called "Sabre" has a secondary bevel and a primary bevel, either flat or hollow, which only runs up about half the depth of the blade, leaving the rest to the spine at full stock thickness. That's is what my Cold Steel SRK has, and its a horrid grind in that form.

What grind is it that you are thinking of?

 

[falcon]

In the spirit of the "Don't be afraid to ask stupid questions" thread...mine is.....has anyone got a photo of a Sabre grind knife to demonstrate how it differs from the Scandi grind ?

 

[C_Claycomb]

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/pix/SRK_350.jpg
This is what I am refering to.

I have one of the above and found it great for strength, but not so good any time I wanted to cut something, be it wood, game, or food.

- The Sabre Grind

The sabre grind is a strong edge format. The bevel starts around the middle of the blade, and proceeds flatly towards the edge. This leaves a strong edge for chopping and other hard use. But it also means the edge will be fairly thick, so this design will not necessarily slice all that well.

The sabre grind is found on many military classic designs such as the Randall #1 and the kabar.

see this page:
http://www.knifeart.com/bladgeomfaqb.html

 

[falcon]

Thanks.....I'm clearer now.....there have been many occasions in the past when I've seen people referring to scandi or sabre grind and, wrongly, I've thought people were using both terms to describe the scandi grind...

 

[mrostov]

The blades I've liked the most out in the field are the convex and hollow grinds.

The convex is a really good general purpose grind that stays sharp and is easy to get sharp. If you have to split wood this is often the best to have. My hatchet and kukris are convext and they are great for chopping through wood and for cutting tasks. My USAF pilot's knife I carry around a lot I converted to convex grind. The convex provides a very strong edge.

I like a hollow grind for knives that need to be extremely sharp and primarily do a lot of cutting tasks, expecially the finer tasks. Knives for cutting meat, leather, plants, food, etc. The edge isn't as tough, like for chopping wood, but it cuts extremely well. All of my Buck knives are hollow ground.

 

[British Red]

Just seen this "pop up" again (I assume someone voted )

I was considering Mrostovs comments on convex and concave (hollow) grinds. To a large extend I concur. Convex works well for impact cutting, and hollow grinds do whave a very fine "slicing" edge. Clearly flat grinds work well for push cuts (check out a chisel some time).

I suspect this is why I prefer scandy to convex. I always have an axe so I don't baton or impact cut with my knife. Its generally a combination of slicing and push cutting I use it for (game prep and wood working) so my preferred edge suit the task

Red

 

[Nathan Sturgess]

I will agree, I have just got a Beretta loveless hunter which is hollow ground and find it fantastic for fine tasks and it isn't that bad a t shaving feather sticks

 

[Hoodoo]

How to Buy an Outdoor Knife by George Leonard Herter

An outdoor knife must be made for service--not show. Your life may depend on it. Real outdoor people realize that so-called sportsmen or outdoor knives have long been made for sale, not for use. The movies and television show their characters wearing fancy sheath knives. Knife makers advertised them and drugstore outdoorsmen bought them. Nothing marks a man to be a tenderfoot more than these showy useless knives.

Here are some of the duties a true woodsman knife must perform:

1. The knife must stay sharp for long periods of time without shapening. The steel should combine the best characteristics of electric furnace quality high carbon 1095 steel and high carbon 440 B stainless steel. The blade hardness, known among steel experts as 56 Rockwell C, should not be affected by atmospheric moisture, salt spray, fruit acids or blood. It should withstand extreme temperatures without becoming brittle, no matter how cold it may be. A good steel knife blade will "blue" or darken itself with use, making it pratically rustproof. If knife blade steel is really good, it will cut through nails without bending over the edge.

2. The knife must be shaped so it is ideal for cleaning and skinning game of all kinds, from rabbits to moose. The best shape for this is the improved Bowie.

3. The knife must have a handle long enough so that it fits a man's hand so pressure can be put on the blade when desired. On nearly all outdoor knives the handles are much too short. The handle of the knife must be made to last a lifetime. Leather handles rot and mildew, stag handles crack, plastic handles crack and are highly inflammable. African mineral-type woods are best, and they will stand all kinds of weather for a lifetime and more.

4. The blade of the knife must not be hollow ground. Hollow grinding weakens a blade so that the edge will bend or break under heavy usage. A wedge edge is the strongest and most durable ever designed.

5. The blade of the knife must be hand forged in order to give the steel maximum strength and hardness.

6. The blade of the knife must not have a blood groove. A blood groove is strictly advertising and badly weakens the blade. Professional butchers do not use them.

7. The knife must be easy to carry and light in weight. The blade length must be 4 inches long. Four inches is the length established for a woodsman knife by over 200 years of experience. Blades shorter are all right for Boy Scouts, but not for serious woodsmen, Longer than 4 inches is unnecessary and adds weight.

8. The knife should have no hilt as it only adds weight. If the knife blade is properly designed, that is slightly indented, you cannot cut your finger no matter how hard you thrust. You need only thrust in a hand to hand combat with a man or a wounded animal.

9. The knife must be capable of slicing bacon and cutting bread. It must be a comfortable knife for eating and cutting cooked meat.

I dislike seeming prejudiced but the George L. Herter knife made by Herter's is and has been the choice of real outdoor people.

 

[Shinken]

How can you combine the properties of 1095 and 440b stainless??? thats poppycock

 

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

How to Buy an Outdoor Knife by George Leonard Herter

An outdoor knife must be made for service--not show. Your life may depend on it. Real outdoor people realize that so-called sportsmen or outdoor knives have long been made for sale, not for use. The movies and television show their characters wearing fancy sheath knives. Knife makers advertised them and drugstore outdoorsmen bought them. Nothing marks a man to be a tenderfoot more than these showy useless knives.

Here are some of the duties a true woodsman knife must perform:

1. The knife must stay sharp for long periods of time without shapening. The steel should combine the best characteristics of electric furnace quality high carbon 1095 steel and high carbon 440 B stainless steel. The blade hardness, known among steel experts as 56 Rockwell C, should not be affected by atmospheric moisture, salt spray, fruit acids or blood. It should withstand extreme temperatures without becoming brittle, no matter how cold it may be. A good steel knife blade will "blue" or darken itself with use, making it pratically rustproof. If knife blade steel is really good, it will cut through nails without bending over the edge.

2. The knife must be shaped so it is ideal for cleaning and skinning game of all kinds, from rabbits to moose. The best shape for this is the improved Bowie.

3. The knife must have a handle long enough so that it fits a man's hand so pressure can be put on the blade when desired. On nearly all outdoor knives the handles are much too short. The handle of the knife must be made to last a lifetime. Leather handles rot and mildew, stag handles crack, plastic handles crack and are highly inflammable. African mineral-type woods are best, and they will stand all kinds of weather for a lifetime and more.

4. The blade of the knife must not be hollow ground. Hollow grinding weakens a blade so that the edge will bend or break under heavy usage. A wedge edge is the strongest and most durable ever designed.

5. The blade of the knife must be hand forged in order to give the steel maximum strength and hardness.

6. The blade of the knife must not have a blood groove. A blood groove is strictly advertising and badly weakens the blade. Professional butchers do not use them.

7. The knife must be easy to carry and light in weight. The blade length must be 4 inches long. Four inches is the length established for a woodsman knife by over 200 years of experience. Blades shorter are all right for Boy Scouts, but not for serious woodsmen, Longer than 4 inches is unnecessary and adds weight.

8. The knife should have no hilt as it only adds weight. If the knife blade is properly designed, that is slightly indented, you cannot cut your finger no matter how hard you thrust. You need only thrust in a hand to hand combat with a man or a wounded animal.

9. The knife must be capable of slicing bacon and cutting bread. It must be a comfortable knife for eating and cutting cooked meat.

I dislike seeming prejudiced but the George L. Herter knife made by Herter's is and has been the choice of real outdoor people.

Would you happen to have an image of the Herter Knife that you mentionned Hoodoo? I'd love to see that

 

[Hoodoo]

Well, ol' George's perfect knife was a moving target and morphed over the years.

This one might look a bit familiar.

 

[Shinken]

That seems to happen, you make a knife and see little things that could be better then the next one you make you incorporate improvments and so forth

 

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

Well, ol' George's perfect knife was a moving target and morphed over the years.

This one might look a bit familiar.

Ah, beauty at it's best!

 

[edispilff]

As said before.. to each their own. Knife edges are no different.
....but, when it comes down to 1 knife, one edge, scandi is my favorite.
-easy sharpening
-stays sharper longer
-better 'bite' in wood

For kicks, try a generic lauri PT (progression temper) blade on your next knife building project . Not a pretty blade but versitile.

Really like the discussions here!

 

[myakka]

Scandi grind for ease of sharpening and wood carving abiities.

Thats my pick.

 

[Yonderer]

I've always owned and used either convex or flat grind knives (except for a couple of Moras) but after receiving my first handmade Scandy grind a month ago, I believe I prefer it for general camp duty.
The only thing left is to try it out as a skinner.
Scandinavian grinds don't seem to be as popular here in North America as they are in the UK and Europe.

 

[sheepdogbob]

Well done - informative thread - everybody give themselves a pat on the back!
My vote?
1) Machete & similar: Scandi @ 50deg.
2) Small (sheath) knife: Full flat grind @ 30deg.
3) Pocket (folding) knife: ------"------ @ 25deg.
I like to carry a small flat stone for the knives, and an axe stone for the larger gear, as required.