What would you do?
- Thread starter Wayne
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Come along to the amazing Summer Moot (21st July - 2nd August), a festival of bushcrafting and camping in a beautiful woodland PLEASE CLICK HERE for more information.
Immediatley assume the worse and apply a torniquet using the laces from the other shoe, and try to extract the leg. The bones protruding and i'm bleeding heavily, Its dusk and beginning to rain, so no one vill even be in the vicinity even with luck before 8.00am. As my favourite bushcraft location is up on the moors with no trees present, I remove the aluminium says from my rucksack and splint my leg. I put on the waterproof i have with me, aloing with warm clothes.first aid kit and any thing i have to deal with the injury i take and put all the useful food i have into the bag after emptying it, and any other useful stuff i have with me, stove for a hot drink, tarp or section of flysheet, some pegs cup water possibles pouch etc, put the bag on the front and start scooting out on my bum. I go out the way i came in as i know the area roughly and i remember a dwelling about 3miles back. The torniquet is safe for 3 hours but i may have to release it occasionally if im not going to make it in that time.
you got me thinking now.....
considering that a lot of the places in OZ/NZ where I've been have no mobile phone reception and I'm almost always go by myself I'd be in for an interesting time.....
I guess first thing is trying to get my hoof out of the hole and hope there was no snake or creepy-crawly down there, then see if I'm bleeding. never done any tourniquets so that would be adding to the "" entertainment""...... . as I usually collect wood close to camp I'd make it back there and remove my boots (if I'm not barefoot (around camp))-- from having had 2sprained ankles I know that the joint/hoof can swell up after injury and boots can turn off blood circulation (found that out the hard way......).
considering that I won't expect any help/rescue from others I'd have to try to make it out myself.....
considering that a lot of the places in OZ/NZ where I've been have no mobile phone reception and I'm almost always go by myself I'd be in for an interesting time.....
I guess first thing is trying to get my hoof out of the hole and hope there was no snake or creepy-crawly down there, then see if I'm bleeding. never done any tourniquets so that would be adding to the "" entertainment""...... . as I usually collect wood close to camp I'd make it back there and remove my boots (if I'm not barefoot (around camp))-- from having had 2sprained ankles I know that the joint/hoof can swell up after injury and boots can turn off blood circulation (found that out the hard way......).
considering that I won't expect any help/rescue from others I'd have to try to make it out myself.....
Joking, Eddie, joking.
You see, I personally go out in nature to avoid modern stuff like telephones and such.
If I should have an emergency I either fix it, or join the food chain.
Of course I behave a certain way to avoid accidents as much as possible!
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Ok, I guess that proves the problem with the written word.
I know what you mean by tech though. A backup plan is always useful though
Yes, specially when it is written by somebody like me, where English is his third language!
I would love if somebody made a kind of electronic device, like an emergency beacon, the size of a cigarette pack. Light, water proof.
Breitling made/makes (?) a watch with such a device, but that one was very, very expensive.
Actually Wayne, my point there was:- If an injury is in my belief, serious enough to warrant applying a tourniquet then; I know I am at risk of 1. death. 2. Other serious injury or illness as a result of the accident. 3. Eventual amputation if I survive. I could, by occasionally releasing it for a very short time, possibly avert 2 and 3. If I do nothing and leave the tourniquet on, I will definitely suffer from 3. If I did nothing to stem heavy bleeding I will die within several minutes. If I do everything possible to stem bleeding, I may survive but my foot or part of my leg will definitely not. If I put on a permanent tourniquet but pass out and survive-one leg survives. If I do the same and I die-RIP me. If I remain conscious and alert and do what I suggest then my whole leg might survive. To my mind it is the lesser of all the evils in this scenario.
Actually tom you're incorrect with that opinion the last study I read on crush injury and tourniquet use suggests a limb can survive considerable time. Well beyond what you would expect given proper supportive treatment at hospital.
So your judgement based on trying to save your limb is unnecessary and I repeat current best practice is too apply the tourniquet and leave it on. Note the time applied.
Obviously the longer the application the more complex the medical situation becomes but there have been cases of limbs being saved beyond 6 hours. I will try and dig out a few studies for you when I have time.
So your judgement based on trying to save your limb is unnecessary and I repeat current best practice is too apply the tourniquet and leave it on. Note the time applied.
Obviously the longer the application the more complex the medical situation becomes but there have been cases of limbs being saved beyond 6 hours. I will try and dig out a few studies for you when I have time.
You are highly unlikely to stop all blood flow to a limb using a tourniquet, hence the new recommendation not to release the pressure.
If you puncture a major vein or artery ( femoral, axillary) you will die. Simple as that.
Carotid / jugular you can not tourniquet of. So again, you will die.
Other, smaller arteries and veins can be closed off for a long time successfully, other veins and arteries will supply the limb with blood.
The extremities where you can easily cut all bloodsupply with resulting necrosis are fingers and toes plus the penis.
If you puncture a major vein or artery ( femoral, axillary) you will die. Simple as that.
Carotid / jugular you can not tourniquet of. So again, you will die.
Other, smaller arteries and veins can be closed off for a long time successfully, other veins and arteries will supply the limb with blood.
The extremities where you can easily cut all bloodsupply with resulting necrosis are fingers and toes plus the penis.
Arterial bleeding can be stopped with a tq, if it is still bleeding, put a 2nd one proximal (above) the original. There are videos proving it with dopler ultrasound. Soldiers with traumatic amputations have survived due to them, victims at the Boston marathon also survived due to the use of commercial tourniquets.
Improvised ones may be less effective, and certainly take longer to apply.
In theatre we use tourniquets for 2 hours (sometimes longer) with no problems. In trauma the evidance is acceptable for much longer, it is not a case of loose the limb to save the person.
Do not release a tq once applied for catastrophic haemorrhage.
Improvised ones may be less effective, and certainly take longer to apply.
In theatre we use tourniquets for 2 hours (sometimes longer) with no problems. In trauma the evidance is acceptable for much longer, it is not a case of loose the limb to save the person.
Do not release a tq once applied for catastrophic haemorrhage.
Yes, if a well traind person applies the tourniquet, then the patient is transported quickly to a medical facility.
The scenario was: late afternoon, getting dark, you are alone in the nature.
The scenario was: late afternoon, getting dark, you are alone in the nature.
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