What is the difference

[Humpback]

SNIP
I can't explain it any simpler than this:-
What can an AW woodlore knife do that any other knife cannot that justifies the prices that some people are prepared to pay,Is there some thing it can do that only this knife can and no other can.SNIP

Apparently it can through personal choice please their spirit, and thats ok by me as ownership doesn't harm anyone, is legal and provides someone with an income!
(I think thats what Ferraris and Rolex watches do for some people who can afford them)

Alan

 

[Toddy]

Hmmm, patience is a virtue I'm sure I've been told. So is courtesy.

What can it do better than any other knife ?
It imbues one with the confidence that some of the best in the game consider that knife to be the most reliably suitable tool for bushcrafting.
A bit like folks buying the same equipment that they see top sportsmen using; fishing rods, skiis, trainers and the like.

Does it perform any better, well of course it does it's an Alan Wood

It's all very subjective though, but then, we do like our shinies

sapper1, instead of getting shirty with folks perhaps you would explain why you feel what is an apparantly self evident question needs an answer ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Fin]

I've never understood the Woodlore clone thing. I'm sure they function well enough but I want something a bit more individual.

A knife is just a knife, some do particular tasks better than others but a "bushcraft" knife has to be multifunctional, so no one design is ever going to be the "perfect" bushcraft knife.

All that really matters is how you like the knife you use.

Apparently it can through personal choice please their spirit, and thats ok by me as ownership doesn't harm anyone, is legal and provides someone with an income!
(I think thats what Ferraris and Rolex watches do for some people who can afford them)

Alan

Agree with both.

Some time ago I bought an SM Bushcrafter made to exactly the same spec as the AW/RM one - but because it didn't have the AW/ RM mark on it - it was considerably cheaper. Later on, with more experience I found that I actually preferred a JoJo Nessmuk as my all round camp knife - cheaper still and with the same build quality. So much so that I'm in the process of commissioning another from him to my own spec. As, Wayland said - it's individual, has quality handcrafted feel and - most importantly - suits me and my needs better than the Woodlore design (I also carry an axe, multitool and a Carving Jack - a sort of folding carving multitool).

So - to answer the original question - I would say their would be little or no difference, in use, between a AW/ RM Bushcraft knife and one of the many fine clones out there on the market. The price comes with owning an original with both the maker's and the designer's marks on it.

A friend of mine owns two Rolex watches. They both look and feel identical but one is a cheap Far East copy. The cheap Far East copy actually keeps much better time than the original - but he wouldn't get as much for it on Ebay

 

[sapper1]

The question:-What can an AW Woodlore do that another knife cannot?
To buy one new will cost £250 (i think) why do they sell on ebay for 3-4 times this amount?
Is it because they can do something other knives cannot ,some seem to think so.
Why do they think so ,what has given this impression that there is nothing better?
So far no-one has come up with that one thing it can do better,What is it?
Myself I think it's a very well made and shaped knife that has a large following,but it's still a knife and does the same as mine.
Anybody have anymore thoughts on this?

 

[robin wood]

Oh so confrontational, as Toddy said the answers are so obvious it is hardly worth asking. I have met quite a few folk now who own these knives and I don't think any of them believed that it would do the job 3 times as well as clone or 200 times as well as a mora. Or even do anything that those knives wouldn't do.

If you want a good cheap knife there are plenty available. If you want the knife endorsed by the most influential chap in the field and they are only made in small numbers it is a supply and demand situation small supply large demand, long waiting list = high prices.

How much do you think it would cost to use exactly the boots David Beckham uses or the clubs Tiger Woods uses?

Why are you so stressed about it?

 

[sapper1]

I'm not stressed or confrontational,It seems as if no-one is able to justify the cost of these knives solely on their abilities ( knives not people) Is it that people see them as a status symbol?

 

[littlebiglane]

• It buys you 'instant access' to the bushcraft community?
• It buys you a slice of our most esteemed and celebrated British bushcrafter?
• It imbues the owner with the perception that they are part of an special club?
• It broadcasts to the impressionable that you must share some of the skills and kudos of the big man himself (without ever having to demonstrate it).
• The knife is truly iconic.
• It encapsulates all that endeavour by RM to popularise Bushcraft
• Its a piece of history. A living legend. There must be few things more alluring than owning a living legend?
• No one can put the finger on what is can do better...but can anyone put the finger on what it does worse?
• It creates envy and lust in young and old bushcrafter alike.
• It feeds into the more superficial side that shinies and ownership and desire of kit is what bushcraft is all about rather than knowledge and getting out there and doing it.

I dunno - its a great knife that can brings out mixed feelings. I know people who have bought AW RM knives several years ago and really (and I mean REALLY) used them. They have never seen them as anything but workhorses. However you will see them in the hands of the most modest, expert hands and also in the hands of brash bling novices. In each hand it gives different meaning. One of respect and the other a snort of derision.....!?

Best of all - I don't know what I am talking about. Never used one. So I might be missing something. I know that I love my knife...and its not an AW.

If I had a million pounds and I needed a good knife then I might just buy one as £100 and £1000 would be so close together. But then I might shave with it every morning then throw it away and get a fresh one out of the draw

 

[robin wood]

It seems as if no-one is able to justify the cost of these knives solely on their abilities

Why do you think they should?

 

[Toddy]

I'm not stressed or confrontational,It seems as if no-one is able to justify the cost of these knives solely on their abilities ( knives not people) Is it that people see them as a status symbol?

Ah, now that's not the question you first asked. No wonder you weren't getting the answer.

Justify the cost ? Why would one have to ? It's just one of the iconic knives of modern bushcraft. It costs what the market will bear.

Status symbol ? Well the first meet I went to there were a selection of them, and they were all pretty much the owner's main user. These days I suspect most of the latest ones out of the workshop are drawer queens.
At that first meet it was obviously the experienced 'bushcraft' folks who had them, I think the growing numbers of people interested in bushcraft nowadays makes the limited numbers of these knives more appealing as a status symbol to many, but the original owners/ users just thought of them as really good, ideal for the job, tools with a quality reputation.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[John Fenna]

I did actually try one (a clients) and found it a bit clumsy in my hand....
The blade felt too thick (I am used to Moras) and the handle was too short for my comfort - I have square hands and like a thinnish longish handle....
Not a knife I realy like.....but the finish was excellent!

 

[Toddy]

Not long after I joined the forum I was offered one by another member who had two. At below cost price too But, beautiful knife though it was, and it was beautiful, I'm small, it just didn't fit me comfortably enough. So I asked Son1 if he'd like it for his birthday, but he preferred a pile of electronics
Could kick myself now

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Wilderbeast]

It can't do anything that another bushcraft knife can't do I don't think, after all when we come down to basic principles, a knife is just a sharp bit of metal (I'm aware that alot of thought goes into designs etc, not trying to degrade anyones work!) But what can a BMW one series do that a VW golf can't? If these questions were so easily answered, think how slim the market for all products would be. The western world loves image and I think the Alan Wood is the gucci of bushcraft!

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

I like mora's, does that make me an amatuer then?

The best of kit matters not if you don't know what to do with it! When I started in Mountain Rescue we where forever getting the jeans and t-shirt brigade getting caught out in the changing Scottish weather. That eventually changed where people seemed to have more disposable income and where prepared to splash out on the must haves of the time. Heading off into the hills with the best of kit but no idea how to use it. Loads still needed rescuing but at least they looked good in the photos.

Learn your trade...............

 

[pentrekeeper]

This thread got me thinking so I decided to calculate the grind angle on some of my knives using the following method, two measurements, the thickness of the steel and the width of the grind (assuming a flat grind) and the following calculation

I have a knife to the same design and spec, or very close to it, as the AW/Ray Mears one. Blade thickness 4.05mm grind width 8.5mm this gives an angle of 27.56 degrees.
Next my mora frost clipper. Blade thickness 2 mm grind width 5.44 mm this gives an angle of 21.18 degrees.
Next a frost short blade sloyd, blade thickness 2.65 grind width 6.39 this gives an angle of 23.93 degrees.
Lastly a frost sloyd with the longer blade, blade thickness 2.7 mm grind width 5.59 mm this gives an angle of 27.95 degrees.
PLease note the blade thickness did vary very slightly along the length as did the grind width so I had to take an approximate average to give a reasonably accurate estimation, also I have hand sharpened all of them using a wet stone several times and am no expert at this so I may have changed the angles a little from new ?
I was surprised as the two frost sloyds feel much more "delicate" probably because of the shallow and thin blades tapering to a point.
The mora clipper is light and comfy to use but without measuring I would have said the angle was bigger than the other frosts.
The hand made bushcraft knife is much heavier, thicker blade but does feel comfy in the hand but does not feel that it could do delicate carving as well as the two frost sloyds.
I would say that any hand made knife to similar spec to the AW/RM one would be just as able to do any job the percieved more prestigeous one could.
However, compared to the others it feels clumsy if you wanted to do some fine carving type of work.

 

[Shewie]

... what can a BMW one series do that a VW golf can't?

Automatically switch off the engine when stationary in traffic ?

I`ll keep my GTi anyday though

 

[Wilderbeast]

Automatically switch off the engine when stationary in traffic ?

I`ll keep my GTi anyday though

HAHAHA!! , it's an extra though and really it just shows how bloody lazy people are that they can't turn off their own engine!!!

 

[sapper1]

Sometimes I'm afraid to turn mine off,it might not go again.

 

[firecrest]

Ive got a better question -
What does an Alan Woods woodlore knife do that a regular Alan Woods knife doesnt do?
Does he make other knives? are they cheaper? presumably he puts his best craftsmanship into each?

 

[robin wood]

This thread got me thinking so I decided to calculate the grind angle on some of my knives using the following method, two measurements, the thickness of the steel and the width of the grind (assuming a flat grind) and the following calculation

I have a knife to the same design and spec, or very close to it, as the AW/Ray Mears one. Blade thickness 4.05mm grind width 8.5mm this gives an angle of 27.56 degrees.
Next my mora frost clipper. Blade thickness 2 mm grind width 5.44 mm this gives an angle of 21.18 degrees.
Next a frost short blade sloyd, blade thickness 2.65 grind width 6.39 this gives an angle of 23.93 degrees.
Lastly a frost sloyd with the longer blade, blade thickness 2.7 mm grind width 5.59 mm this gives an angle of 27.95 degrees.
PLease note the blade thickness did vary very slightly along the length as did the grind width so I had to take an approximate average to give a reasonably accurate estimation, also I have hand sharpened all of them using a wet stone several times and am no expert at this so I may have changed the angles a little from new ?
I was surprised as the two frost sloyds feel much more "delicate" probably because of the shallow and thin blades tapering to a point.
The mora clipper is light and comfy to use but without measuring I would have said the angle was bigger than the other frosts.
The hand made bushcraft knife is much heavier, thicker blade but does feel comfy in the hand but does not feel that it could do delicate carving as well as the two frost sloyds.
I would say that any hand made knife to similar spec to the AW/RM one would be just as able to do any job the percieved more prestigeous one could.
However, compared to the others it feels clumsy if you wanted to do some fine carving type of work.

I love to see folk thinking like this, it is really the way to move forward.

There is no question your sloyd knives are better carvers than the woodlore, it is what they were designed for. The woodlore is designed as a one knife to do it all and any such knife is going to be a compromise and do most things reasonably well but not excel at many. Your sloyd knives would be very poor skinners and not stand battoning as well as a woodlore.

The sloyds normally come out of the packet at 25 degrees give or take a bit. The clipper will originally have had a tiny secondary bevel at 25-30 if you zero it they tend to edge roll as few knifes can carve wood at 20-22 degrees.

see this thread for close up images of new clipper and sloyd grinds.

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29512&highlight=mora+sharp

 

[Peter_t]

it seems to me like some people are negative or have grudges towards rays knife just because of the price. i have no doubt that it is an exelent knife and say somebody was selling one second hand for £40 i wouldnt think twice about buying it. i dont think i would pay much more for a knife no mater what knife it was, essentualy a knife is a very basic tool and even thow it is usualy the most valuable tool in bushcraft the materials used to make one can cost verry little. i certainly wouldnt pay £250 for a new one and you either have no clue of the value of money are a right nutcase to buy one for £750

well thats my opinion

pete