What is the best bushcrafting dog?

Niels

Full Member
Mar 28, 2011
2,582
1
23
Netherlands
Officially there are in fact only 2 species of wolf canis Lupus ( grey wolf) & canis rufus (red wolf) although some researchers claim that the Eastern timber wolf (canis lupus lycaon) is ia seperate species but the jury's still out on that one. The variants such as , timber, arctic, Iberien etc. are sub-species.
Wolves range in colour from white through to coal black passing by greys, yellows,tans, browns,golds, reds & mixtures of all of them, even pie wolves have been seen.. Arctic wolves (canis lupus arctos) are usually white, Canadian & Alaskan wolves are usually grey or black & European wolves are mostly greyish brown..
Unlike dogs, a wolf's coat is rarely uniform in colour.

Before the arrival of man, wolves were the most wide spread mammal, occupying most of the northern hemisphere. Helas, quite a few other sub-species are now extinct.
I thought Canis lupus arctos was also a recognised subspecies? And what about Canis Lupus Dingo?
How can you determine wether something is a subspieces?
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
0
Elsewhere
Anyone take their dog out sleeping under a tarp? I've got a collie and I worry about him getting cold when sleeping outside, on the ground.
When you say collie, is that a Border, Rough, Smooth or Bearded ? sheepdogs are as a rule resistant to cold with a good double coat but a lot depends on their lifestyles. If they spend most of the time in a centrally heated house then there is a risk they may feel the cold passing the night under the stars, but with good ground insualtion they should be OK. Damp is more of a problem as is wind & rain.
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
0
Elsewhere
I thought Canis lupus arctos was also a recognised subspecies?
It is indeed a sub-species.


And what about Canis Lupus Dingo?
The dingo was originally a domestic dog (canis lupus familiaris ) bought to Australia by humans over 6,ooo years ago & then escapees or abandoned individuals reverted to the wild. Since dogs are descended from wolves & dingos from dogs it could be argued that dingos are a sub -species of wolf but science doesn't see it that way.:)



How can you determine wether something is a subspieces?

Good question..............originally it was based on taxonomy but now it's done with DNA testing, the results & conclusions though, are still argued about & disputed by the scientific communities so there are still lots of 'sub-species' yet to be classified definitively.:)
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,387
876
63
Florida
It is indeed a sub-species.




The dingo was originally a domestic dog (canis lupus familiaris ) bought to Australia by humans over 6,ooo years ago & then escapees or abandoned individuals reverted to the wild. Since dogs are descended from wolves & dingos from dogs it could be argued that dingos are a sub -species of wolf but science doesn't see it that way.:)






Good question..............originally it was based on taxonomy but now it's done with DNA testing, the results & conclusions though, are still argued about & disputed by the scientific communities so there are still lots of 'sub-species' yet to be classified definitively.:)

Actually according to DNA testing there are ONLY subspecies. ALL wolves AND dogs have the same DNA as a single species.
 
Last edited:

Niels

Full Member
Mar 28, 2011
2,582
1
23
Netherlands
It is indeed a sub-species.




The dingo was originally a domestic dog (canis lupus familiaris ) bought to Australia by humans over 6,ooo years ago & then escapees or abandoned individuals reverted to the wild. Since dogs are descended from wolves & dingos from dogs it could be argued that dingos are a sub -species of wolf but science doesn't see it that way.:)






Good question..............originally it was based on taxonomy but now it's done with DNA testing, the results & conclusions though, are still argued about & disputed by the scientific communities so there are still lots of 'sub-species' yet to be classified definitively.:)
Good post:) Gives me some matters to think about:)
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
10
Scotland
Morning,

Neither of mine would touch a mushroom, even in a stew they would eat 'round them or spit them out. Snoop also wouldn't touch prawns or pidgeon, and he loved fish and other birds in general. I think one of the funniest half hours was watchinh him try to deal with live razor clams when I was out collecting them one day, he was freaked out by them but wanted to help catch them. (Though his big treat was pasta with pesto and parmesan cheese, he'd mug someone for parmesan). Nelson the wolfhound would pick brambles and put them in the punnet undamaged when we were out picking, for a dog of nearly 12 stone in weight and teeth like knives I thought it showed his gentle side. (Not that he ever showed it to deer!

Goatboy.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,387
876
63
Florida
I thought Canis lupus arctos was also a recognised subspecies? And what about Canis Lupus Dingo?
How can you determine wether something is a subspieces?
Perhaps in Europe. here Canus Arctos is a separarte species. There is no Canus Lupos Arctos. Or at least that was the case a few years ago. Taxonomy itself is evolving with research.
 

andyc54

Settler
Dec 28, 2010
600
0
40
durham
Well lots of people have their favourites here is a picture of my sidekick MEG she is a little beauty
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-duR9_z9dgYk/UN8F8G88GRI/AAAAAAAAEhg/f8XB3Qctni0/s679/PB140014.JPG
cracking picture ive been walking/training the in laws year old jack russell really changed my mind about them hes happy to sit around with me,well behaved and he has a thing for pheasants lol i still have nt got another dog after loosing our whippet 6 months ago but the next will be a rescue and theres a staffie whos tempting me in our local kennel but not sure what they like as an outdoor dog ?
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
0
Elsewhere
Perhaps in Europe. here Canus Arctos is a separarte species. There is no Canus Lupos Arctos. Or at least that was the case a few years ago. Taxonomy itself is evolving with research.

True enough,some biologists are trying to reduce the number of wolf subspecies which is pretty hard to keep up with & there is often cross breeding between subspecies where there ranges overlap. In 2005 the red wolf, after many decades considered a separate species was relegated to a subspecies of the grey wolf but this decision was not accepted by all the scientific bodies. Today it is vaguely considered a subspecies as are the subspecies of the red wolf but it really depends on who you talk to whether it's a subspecies or species. Confused ? :)
Very often a group of 'experts' decide to reclassify certain groups of animals or plants but their peers do not always agree, which is not only confusing for the scientific community but also for the general public. For example, in 1992 some scientifics decided to 'clean up' this wolf subspecies issue by rearranging some of them under 7 distinct species;

  • Canis arctos: The Arctic islands and Greenland species: arctos, bernardi and orion.
  • Canis baileyi: The Mexico and the extreme southwestern United States species: baileyi, mogollonensis,and monstrabilis.
  • Canis dingo: the Austrailian wild dog.
  • Canis familiaris: the domestic canine.
  • Canis lycaon: The southeastern Canadian and northeastern United States species: lycaon (except for those in Minnesota).
  • Canis nubilus: The SE Alaskan, central and northeastern Canadian and western United States species: beothucus, crassodon, fuscus, hudsonicus, irremotus, labradorius, ligoni, lycaon (those in Minnesota), manningi, nubilus and youngi.
  • Canis occidentalis: The Alaskan and western Canadian species: alces, columbianus, griseoalbus, mackenzii, occidentalis, pambasileus and tundrarum.
Needless to say, for the moment at least, this proposal has not yet been unanamously accepted & so the long list of wolf subspecies is still "de rigueur' which goes something like this....http://www.graywolfconservation.com/Information/subspecies.htm


Interestingly both the dog & dingo are classed as seperate wolf subspecies on the linked list which is news to me :D & the new Guinea singing dog is considered a primitive breed of domestic dog in some countries & not a seperate sub species.
 
Last edited:

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,387
876
63
Florida
True enough,some biologists are trying to reduce the number of wolf subspecies which is pretty hard to keep up with & there is often cross breeding between subspecies where there ranges overlap. In 2005 the red wolf, after many decades considered a separate species was relegated to a subspecies of the grey wolf but this decision was not accepted by all the scientific bodies. Today it is vaguely considered a subspecies as are the subspecies of the red wolf but it really depends on who you talk to whether it's a subspecies or species. Confused ? :)
Very often a group of 'experts' decide to reclassify certain groups of animals or plants but their peers do not always agree, which is not only confusing for the scientific community but also for the general public. For example, in 1992 some scientifics decided to 'clean up' this wolf subspecies issue by rearranging some of them under 7 distinct species;
  • Canis arctos: The Arctic islands and Greenland species: arctos, bernardi and orion.
  • Canis baileyi: The Mexico and the extreme southwestern United States species: baileyi, mogollonensis,and monstrabilis.
  • Canis dingo: the Austrailian wild dog.
  • Canis familiaris: the domestic canine.
  • Canis lycaon: The southeastern Canadian and northeastern United States species: lycaon (except for those in Minnesota).
  • Canis nubilus: The SE Alaskan, central and northeastern Canadian and western United States species: beothucus, crassodon, fuscus, hudsonicus, irremotus, labradorius, ligoni, lycaon (those in Minnesota), manningi, nubilus and youngi.
  • Canis occidentalis: The Alaskan and western Canadian species: alces, columbianus, griseoalbus, mackenzii, occidentalis, pambasileus and tundrarum.
Needless to say, for the moment at least, this proposal has not yet been unanamously accepted & so the long list of wolf subspecies is still "de rigueur' which goes something like this....http://www.graywolfconservation.com/Information/subspecies.htm


Interestingly both the dog & dingo are classed as seperate wolf subspecies on the linked list which is news to me :D & the new Guinea singing dog is considered a primitive breed of domestic dog in some countries & not a seperate sub species.
Confused? No, not really; rather I'm convinced the "experts" really don't know much more than the rest of us. :)

However I must confess that at least some of their constant re-classifying is probably to better enable conservation efforts. Imagine if the Red Wolf were still classified as a sub-species then it would be more difficult to list it as endangered.

It does present other legal problems though. Vaccinations (specifically rabies vaccinations) are aproved on only one species at a time. Therefore the vaccine approved for dogs isn't neccessarily approved for other canines until further testing and submission. Although it is interesting to note that the Dept. of Agriculture (the parent organization to the FDA which in turn approves vaccines) has stated that ALL lupus species shall be legally considerred as dogs. That statement in theory means that said vaccines if approved for one are actually spproved for all. But it also raises the possibility of having to delist endangered species as there's definitely no shortage of domestic dogs.

The one thing they all seem to be in agreement with is that there is no significant species difference in the DNA of any wolves or dogs.
 
Last edited:

Chiseller

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 5, 2011
6,176
1
West Riding
Confused? No, not really; rather I'm convinced the "experts" really don't know much more than the rest of us. :)

However I must confess that at least some of their constant re-classifying is probably to better enable conservation efforts. Imagine if the Red Wolf were still classified as a sub-species then it would be more difficult to list it as endangered.

It does present other legal problems though. Vaccinations (specifically rabies vaccinations) are aproved on only one species at a time. Therefore the vaccine approved for dogs isn't neccessarily approved for other canines until further testing and submission. Although it is interesting to note that the Dept. of Agriculture (the parent organization to the FDA which in turn approves vaccines) has stated that ALL lupus species shall be legally considerred as dogs. That statement in theory means that said vaccines if approved for one are actually spproved for all. But it also raises the possibility of having to delist endangered species as there's definitely no shortage of domestic dogs.

The one thing they all seem to be in agreement with is that there is no significant species difference in the DNA of any wolves or dogs.
Can't all these posts, go to another thread? Don't mean to be mardy but its loosing sight of the threads foundation ;) IMHO :D
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,387
876
63
Florida
As i said up thread, i currently have a Boxer mix and a Corgi mix. Both great dogs and I hope to have them for quite a long time.

My next dog (if I'm so lucky) might well be a Catahoulas such as one of these: www.petstew.com/65/dog/catahoula-leopard-dog-videos.html or pictuered here working: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETDndwozT-I

I've also got an interest in the Malinois such as these: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOlSxumLjLg Ellen I think you might like these as they haven't been overbred yet and still don't have that awful sloped back. They're also slightly smaller than a GSD and thus less expensive to feed and keep.
 
Last edited: