What gear would you take with you thread and why.
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The fact that the OP is more interested in discussing the merits of waterbottles with people on the other side of the planet rather than using the meet at North Wood this coming weekend as an opportunity to field test his already extensive portfolio of outdoor kit is enough for me aswell!
I guess you could make
in a Trangia but I wouldn’t want to be the one cleaning it afterwards! 
That's pretty funny here!
Yes, we have different opinions about kit, but we also agree in a lot of points!
For example: Nearly everybody of us owns a Victorinox Knife.
I recommend this here:
VICTORINOX COMPACT
https://www.victorinox.com/de/de/Pr...esser/Mittlere-Taschenmesser/Compact/p/1.3405
It is the lightest Victorinox in this size that contains every tool you need for trekking, hiking, traveling.
Some will ask for a tin opener. I tell you it is integrated!
So, others will recommend the older version Victorinox Climber.
Others want a saw, who recommends a Knife without saw usually has a longer more efficient saw on top if needed.
A few take the scissors seperatly.
Experienced people don't need additional a fix blade knife in most conditions, others always take one with them.
But NOBODY will tell you Victorinox Compact or Climber would be bullshit.
Your sleeping mat is heavy like everything from Savotta. I wouldn't buy it. But I tell you, that every thing made by Savotta in Finland is high end quality equipment.
I don't use it, because it is to heavy, but I know, that all and every thing from them belongs to the best you can buy for bushcraft.
But then, you really don't need a titanium spoon. Everybody will agree in this.
A titanium spoon is nice to have. A stainless steel spoon is round about 20 g heavier, but stronger.
Some use a Coke bottle, some a military canteen, some a stainless steel bottle, it doesn't matter. But nobody uses a glass bottle.
I gave you the links to approoved stuff in the low budget list, I gave you the link to Paul Kirtleys Packing list.
Another Option would be something like the Hilleberg Akto or Nallo 2.
I recommend you to show us a list about the stuff you just own.
In a house you own it's nice to have everything you could need.
In the rucksack it is nice to have just that, what you really need.
I gave you the links to 2 different packing lists from very experienced persons.
You should start with a similar packing list!
Yes, we have different opinions about kit, but we also agree in a lot of points!
For example: Nearly everybody of us owns a Victorinox Knife.
I recommend this here:
VICTORINOX COMPACT
https://www.victorinox.com/de/de/Pr...esser/Mittlere-Taschenmesser/Compact/p/1.3405
It is the lightest Victorinox in this size that contains every tool you need for trekking, hiking, traveling.
Some will ask for a tin opener. I tell you it is integrated!
So, others will recommend the older version Victorinox Climber.
Others want a saw, who recommends a Knife without saw usually has a longer more efficient saw on top if needed.
A few take the scissors seperatly.
Experienced people don't need additional a fix blade knife in most conditions, others always take one with them.
But NOBODY will tell you Victorinox Compact or Climber would be bullshit.
Your sleeping mat is heavy like everything from Savotta. I wouldn't buy it. But I tell you, that every thing made by Savotta in Finland is high end quality equipment.
I don't use it, because it is to heavy, but I know, that all and every thing from them belongs to the best you can buy for bushcraft.
But then, you really don't need a titanium spoon. Everybody will agree in this.
A titanium spoon is nice to have. A stainless steel spoon is round about 20 g heavier, but stronger.
Some use a Coke bottle, some a military canteen, some a stainless steel bottle, it doesn't matter. But nobody uses a glass bottle.
I gave you the links to approoved stuff in the low budget list, I gave you the link to Paul Kirtleys Packing list.
Another Option would be something like the Hilleberg Akto or Nallo 2.
I recommend you to show us a list about the stuff you just own.
In a house you own it's nice to have everything you could need.
In the rucksack it is nice to have just that, what you really need.
I gave you the links to 2 different packing lists from very experienced persons.
You should start with a similar packing list!
The fact that the OP is more interested in discussing the merits of waterbottles with people on the other side of the planet rather than using the meet at North Wood this coming weekend as an opportunity to field test his already extensive portfolio of outdoor kit is enough for me aswell!
I guess you could make
But is it not nicer to have a discussion with a dude from the other side of the world about water bottles, than getting verbally slapped by people living locally?
Yes you can make popcorn in a Trangia. You need to use the restrictor collar on the burner. And lift the pan to shake now and then.
D-Cell camping lanterns are not for back packing, they are for vehicle/horse camping. A head torch with a single lithium cell (even a good AA) should last you a week of camping, unless you really are going to sit around long into the night reading...which many think they will do, but fewer actually do. I read at home, almost never when camping. Generally after sorting out camp, cooking, and cleaning up, I am ready for bed and might get 15 minutes reading before going to sleep.
Fenix HL50 head torch, which is what I have.
Brightness Levels:
(Using 1 x NiMH AA Battery)
Burst: 285 lumens
High: 150 lumens (2 hrs)
Mid: 55 lumens (6 hrs 20 min)
Low: 3 lumens (110 hrs)
(Using 1 x CR123A Lithium Battery)
Burst: 365 lumens
High: 170 lumens (3 hrs)
Mid: 60 lumens (9 hrs 45 min)
Low: 4 lumens (150 hrs)
7 days, use from 6pm to 9pm, three hours per night = 21 hours
most of that can be on LOW since it is just bimbling around, reading, cooking, brushing teeth. Also, even in winter it is unlikely you need to have a light running continuously from sun-down to bed time.
For getting away from it all, people etc, there isn't much need to actually back pack into the wild at this time of year. I was in the Lake District in October a few years ago and the camp sites that are usually full in May were empty. The ones that are usually pretty empty in May were even more deserted in October. Not hard to find a whole camp site (complete with a toilet block and drinking water) to myself. Then I could do 5-10 miles day hikes up into the mountains, only carrying what I wanted for the day. I could enjoy the hills without buckling my knees under unaccustomed pack weight.
Actually, did much the same in May too. Some sites were rather full, but during the week I was able to camp on sites where there were just another couple of tents, 60+ metres away.
Fenix HL50 head torch, which is what I have.
Brightness Levels:
(Using 1 x NiMH AA Battery)
Burst: 285 lumens
High: 150 lumens (2 hrs)
Mid: 55 lumens (6 hrs 20 min)
Low: 3 lumens (110 hrs)
(Using 1 x CR123A Lithium Battery)
Burst: 365 lumens
High: 170 lumens (3 hrs)
Mid: 60 lumens (9 hrs 45 min)
Low: 4 lumens (150 hrs)
7 days, use from 6pm to 9pm, three hours per night = 21 hours
most of that can be on LOW since it is just bimbling around, reading, cooking, brushing teeth. Also, even in winter it is unlikely you need to have a light running continuously from sun-down to bed time.
For getting away from it all, people etc, there isn't much need to actually back pack into the wild at this time of year. I was in the Lake District in October a few years ago and the camp sites that are usually full in May were empty. The ones that are usually pretty empty in May were even more deserted in October. Not hard to find a whole camp site (complete with a toilet block and drinking water) to myself. Then I could do 5-10 miles day hikes up into the mountains, only carrying what I wanted for the day. I could enjoy the hills without buckling my knees under unaccustomed pack weight.
Actually, did much the same in May too. Some sites were rather full, but during the week I was able to camp on sites where there were just another couple of tents, 60+ metres away.
The last couple of pages of posts have made me wonder if Daniel shares a similar thought process to Tengu and a few of our other members. A great deal of focus on research and analysis, being extra certain to be ready before making a start, not acting on social signals that some people are becoming frustrated. Everything is super logical and reasoned, but a little over-thought and inflexible. Perhaps not jumping at the chance to meet strangers face to face before they are "ready". There are a couple other things, but I am certainly wondering.
If Daniel is a little further along the spectrum than the average engineer (me), perhaps we need to be a little more patient than we have been? If I am right, it would hardly surprise me. I have met more people who think in this manner at the Moot, or through this site, than I have anywhere else, or everywhere else combined.
Chris
If Daniel is a little further along the spectrum than the average engineer (me
), perhaps we need to be a little more patient than we have been? If I am right, it would hardly surprise me. I have met more people who think in this manner at the Moot, or through this site, than I have anywhere else, or everywhere else combined.Chris
I think we all had this same enthusiasm when we started out... This obsession with 'Getting out into the wild' for a couple of nights..
Overladen with all the kit we have spent our hard earned money on, i'll prepared plans, weekend ruined by rain or not finding a suitable pitch before nightfall.
My advice would be, start smaller, more locally. Maybe just a day out with a small shoulder bag. don't sleep out, just recce the area for future camps.
Maybe try your local Bushcraft meet up? Safe, secure, you can try out all the kit you want and see what suits you best.
Sometimes, just getting out for a walk and taking pictures of wildlife or mushroom hunting can be more rewarding than spending hours on the motorway then hiking miles in the rain to a spot where you aren't even sure
where to camp?
Overladen with all the kit we have spent our hard earned money on, i'll prepared plans, weekend ruined by rain or not finding a suitable pitch before nightfall.
My advice would be, start smaller, more locally. Maybe just a day out with a small shoulder bag. don't sleep out, just recce the area for future camps.
Maybe try your local Bushcraft meet up? Safe, secure, you can try out all the kit you want and see what suits you best.
Sometimes, just getting out for a walk and taking pictures of wildlife or mushroom hunting can be more rewarding than spending hours on the motorway then hiking miles in the rain to a spot where you aren't even sure
where to camp?
In the beginning I bought a book for boy scouts and packed exactly what was recommended there.
My kit never really changed from the first beginning until now, 40 years later.
It's totally unnecessary to start with to much equipment.
My kit never really changed from the first beginning until now, 40 years later.
It's totally unnecessary to start with to much equipment.
Research for gear on a computer is fine to give you ideas. But you need to visit a good camping store to see the things and handle them feel the weight and quality get advice from the assistants about your choices and possible alternatives.
Take your list to several stores and do this. Make notes about the recomended kit then buy what is recomended in your price range .
For what you want to pay for the water filter for instance you could get a realy good tent that will be both lighter and more suited to backpacking than the one you said you wanted to get. A packet of water purifying tablets costs a few pounds and will do the job just fine. You realy don't need a filter to start with. I'd only buy that if I was going to spend months in the Canadian wild. It's well overkill.
I think we have all learned that the more kit you have does not nessasarily mean more comfort. In fact often the opposite.!
I know that sounds stupid but it's true. There is no fun in carting all this stuff about with sore shoulders aching blistered feet, trying to cook a meal and put up a huge tent in the wind etc when exhausted.
Good boots and socks, waterproof jacket warm clothes a first aid kit two man tent good rucksack and sleeping mat and bag are where you need to spend your most money. Remember that a big price isn't nessasarily the best kit.often cheaper versions are just as good.
A lot of the guys use second hand army surplace and it's cheap and works much better in many cases than expensive civvy gear.
Take your list to several stores and do this. Make notes about the recomended kit then buy what is recomended in your price range .
For what you want to pay for the water filter for instance you could get a realy good tent that will be both lighter and more suited to backpacking than the one you said you wanted to get. A packet of water purifying tablets costs a few pounds and will do the job just fine. You realy don't need a filter to start with. I'd only buy that if I was going to spend months in the Canadian wild. It's well overkill.
I think we have all learned that the more kit you have does not nessasarily mean more comfort. In fact often the opposite.!
I know that sounds stupid but it's true. There is no fun in carting all this stuff about with sore shoulders aching blistered feet, trying to cook a meal and put up a huge tent in the wind etc when exhausted.
Good boots and socks, waterproof jacket warm clothes a first aid kit two man tent good rucksack and sleeping mat and bag are where you need to spend your most money. Remember that a big price isn't nessasarily the best kit.often cheaper versions are just as good.
A lot of the guys use second hand army surplace and it's cheap and works much better in many cases than expensive civvy gear.
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No one is “verbally slapping” the OP and I am confident that if and when he decides that the time is right, he will get a very warm and encouraging welcome at any of the meets/moots organised by members if this group - or indeed by anyone else.
I suspect that C_C is on the money in post #107 - for whatever reason Dan seems to be suffering from paralysis by analysis. If you honestly believe that the only thing that is holding him back from enjoying backpacking/wildcamping/bushcrafting adventures is the lack of a decent waterbottle then crack on with your recommendations - I’ll just get the
ready and pop back over the next few days to see whether a consensus has been reached on the ultimate waterbottle before the 1000 post mark.IMHO Dan has all the kit he needs and just needs an encouraging nudge in the right direction to get him started however autumn is definitely upon us and he only has a few weeks before camping in the UK become a more challenging experience especially for a newbie.
Several people have suggested sensible opportunities to get started (below is a link to another one) but Dan still seems focussed on kit which should be a means to an end, not an end in itself and while people on while away their time churning out lengthy lists of alternative kit suggestions, that is unlikely to change.
https://nearlywildcamping.org/
The finest waterbottle that money can but is no better than a recycled plastic pop bottle if they are both sat at home on a shelf!
Well..... He has been told early in the thread to go out and meet more knowledgeable people ( meetings, course) but he still wants to discuss equipment.
So, why not?
Yes, I was one of those that 'verbally slapped' him a bit, I confess, but when I saw he still wants to get our opinion, I did, and will do, that.
I rather have a NIB Sigg bottle on a shelf than an used soda bottle. ( OK, Ok, I might choose a limited Ed. Coke bottle before a SIGG..... )
Remember, it is HIS choice. We can only give him our opinion on equipment.
Somebody commented quite snidely about him not knowing about Trangia. Hand on heart, did any of you before you went onto 'bushcrafting'?
My dad ( and young me) did certainly not, hence we used his family's ancient Primus. Saw and appreciated the user friendlier and lighter Trangia in '70 or 71'. Bought it.
Remember, we were all unknowing greenhorns once upon a time. Many here still are, and are not afraid of showing it and asking questions.
So, why not?
Yes, I was one of those that 'verbally slapped' him a bit, I confess, but when I saw he still wants to get our opinion, I did, and will do, that.
I rather have a NIB Sigg bottle on a shelf than an used soda bottle. ( OK, Ok, I might choose a limited Ed. Coke bottle before a SIGG.....
)Remember, it is HIS choice. We can only give him our opinion on equipment.
Somebody commented quite snidely about him not knowing about Trangia. Hand on heart, did any of you before you went onto 'bushcrafting'?
My dad ( and young me) did certainly not, hence we used his family's ancient Primus. Saw and appreciated the user friendlier and lighter Trangia in '70 or 71'. Bought it.
Remember, we were all unknowing greenhorns once upon a time. Many here still are, and are not afraid of showing it and asking questions.
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Hate to break my silence which proves that i am a troll.
I believe when you first started bush craft i think you did not have the internet back then to gain knowledge.
I am ashamed of my self, yes i did have best interest at heart and yes my choice but what caused me to be ashamed is because i have gone with gear i fully ignored and it is a lot better as well.
The gear in question is the more compact spirit burner and spirit burner stove support thing to go with it, and the fuel is cheaper as well as having 1 litre of bio ethanol as well as going with the Trangia 0.9 litre kettle.
I believe not every single inhabitant on earth would know about the famous brand Trangia and same with me i did not know.
I apologise for my past posts.
Dan.
I believe when you first started bush craft i think you did not have the internet back then to gain knowledge.
I am ashamed of my self, yes i did have best interest at heart and yes my choice but what caused me to be ashamed is because i have gone with gear i fully ignored and it is a lot better as well.
The gear in question is the more compact spirit burner and spirit burner stove support thing to go with it, and the fuel is cheaper as well as having 1 litre of bio ethanol as well as going with the Trangia 0.9 litre kettle.
I believe not every single inhabitant on earth would know about the famous brand Trangia and same with me i did not know.
I apologise for my past posts.
Dan.
When I was introduced to what is today called Bushcraft we could hardly read about it in books. Knowledge was passed on, in my case, from dad, then my own experimenting, then from my Saami soldiers. Then came Internet and messed up the World.....
I do not care if you are a troll ( I do not think so), as you bring in interesting queries.
DO NOT BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.
Not sure what ou mean the sentence about the Bio Ethanol.
A Trangia is best used with Meths as it is called. Methanol, Ethanol, a mix of those. It does not matter, as long as the alcohol content is as close to 99% as possible.
(The alcohol type matters only if you plan to use it in the severe temperatures sometimes encountered in the Arctic. But with a few tricks even the standard ones are usable)
Bio Ethanol sounds nice, a couple of years maturing and it is very enjoyable?
As you are going to burn it, hopefully without spilling in your food container, just use the cheapest.
I do not care if you are a troll ( I do not think so), as you bring in interesting queries.
DO NOT BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.
Not sure what ou mean the sentence about the Bio Ethanol.
A Trangia is best used with Meths as it is called. Methanol, Ethanol, a mix of those. It does not matter, as long as the alcohol content is as close to 99% as possible.
(The alcohol type matters only if you plan to use it in the severe temperatures sometimes encountered in the Arctic. But with a few tricks even the standard ones are usable)
Bio Ethanol sounds nice, a couple of years maturing and it is very enjoyable?
As you are going to burn it, hopefully without spilling in your food container, just use the cheapest.
When I was introduced to what is today called Bushcraft we could hardly read about it in books. Knowledge was passed on, in my case, from dad, then my own experimenting, then from my Saami soldiers. Then came Internet and messed up the World.....
I do not care if you are a troll ( I do not think so), as you bring in interesting queries.
DO NOT BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.
Not sure what ou mean the sentence about the Bio Ethanol.
A Trangia is best used with Meths as it is called. Methanol, Ethanol, a mix of those. It does not matter, as long as the alcohol content is as close to 99% as possible.
(The alcohol type matters only if you plan to use it in the severe temperatures sometimes encountered in the Arctic. But with a few tricks even the standard ones are usable)
Bio Ethanol sounds nice, a couple of years maturing and it is very enjoyable?
As you are going to burn it, hopefully without spilling in your food container, just use the cheapest.
I have to be careful what i say, just in case someone snoops in and pecks my eyes out but i agree with them when i look at my self in the mirror.
I love you then because i have the same heart, bringing up interesting stuff so we love that, no?
With my ignorant knowledge i seem to think it is okay to use whatever well suitable fuel to put in the spirit burner and i stand to be corrected, fuel that does not explode for one, or just use meth to be on the safe side as it is the recommended fuel that i have come across.
Edit yes i am ignorant because i have not read your post properly regarding fuel for spirit burner that you posted, i ought to pay attention, i agree with the mishap regarding that, because people just know that i have not paid attention and then get attacked.
It is like as if i am talking to my self which i am not and get mocked like that as well with the entertainment, but yea not being rude but yea if i can help it...
Also i do not know it all and yes fully i was being mr know it all when i had no knowledge what i was on about, i agree with that.
All in all you do not have to confess because i deserved it.
People will be like 'what are you on about?' so i have to edit my post so it makes sense and fit in.
Also if you want to judge a book by its cover, go ahead because me being a stranger, you don't know me and people judge by the cover as you have said when you see things like that with the posts and what i have said and all of that which shows you that i want opinions as you have said, that is judging a book by it's cover.
Same with many people here, they have judged me by the cover, okay?
But the bit where you say that you do not believe me to be a troll, you have not judged me by the cover because i bring up interesting stuff here and yes that is genuine here.
Dan.
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You can use different fuel, petrol, Avgas ( high octane petrol) Diesel oil, but that is a technique I can not recommend or would tell how to use.
Alcohols are widely available, the only limitation is how much water they added. The more water - the worse burn. I have encountered crap 'Meths' that after the alcohol evaporated, the water was enough to soak into the fluffy stuff some Trangia burners ( all?) have inside them.
Yes, there are East Asian fakes or copies out there, but I believe the money should go to the company that invented them and not to some smart@ss that wants to make a quick dollar.
Re clothes: You can use jeans as trousers, they are very suitable, but they should be very loose and baggy to be comfortable.
Some brands have those metal studs which are an irritating feature.
Alcohols are widely available, the only limitation is how much water they added. The more water - the worse burn. I have encountered crap 'Meths' that after the alcohol evaporated, the water was enough to soak into the fluffy stuff some Trangia burners ( all?) have inside them.
Yes, there are East Asian fakes or copies out there, but I believe the money should go to the company that invented them and not to some smart@ss that wants to make a quick dollar.
Re clothes: You can use jeans as trousers, they are very suitable, but they should be very loose and baggy to be comfortable.
Some brands have those metal studs which are an irritating feature.
Good grief! You need more help than a week in a tent. You’re looking to find some salvation, mentally speaking, from planning and going on this adventure. I can see you’re reaching out for help here in more ways than one, take the advice, go and have a weekend by a fire with some of the people here who’ve offered their woodland. It’ll reach you better than the easily misunderstood language of text, electronic comms etc. Just go and do it.
Nobody attacked you, just lots of people trying to point you in the right direction. Passive aggressive rubbish like that, rather than getting on with sifting through the info and absorbing it, won’t get you anywhere. Again, go and meet real, live people. Take their knowledge on board, go to enjoy the Scottish wilderness without expecting it to cure all ills.
Somebody asked something about my thought processes.
yes?
Dont let this lot intimidate or baffle you; You would have to go a long way to meet a group as good as here. (But they can be intimidating or baffling, yes, at times)
But they dont suffer fools gladly; You are allowed to be a fool once, not again. We were all beginners once.
(I too, would start local; its not like you are far from interesting places, though yes I do enjoy Scotland. )
Start slow, plan your kit and try a few simple day trips, what do you want to do? Car camping? treks? making stuff?
What do you like to explore in the outdoors?
yes?
Dont let this lot intimidate or baffle you; You would have to go a long way to meet a group as good as here. (But they can be intimidating or baffling, yes, at times)
But they dont suffer fools gladly; You are allowed to be a fool once, not again. We were all beginners once.
(I too, would start local; its not like you are far from interesting places, though yes I do enjoy Scotland. )
Start slow, plan your kit and try a few simple day trips, what do you want to do? Car camping? treks? making stuff?
What do you like to explore in the outdoors?
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