what did everyone think then?

[jakunen]

Aside from trying to get advise on what is the best pack/knife/stove etc by general consencus, we all like to show off a bit and say "I've just bought myself a great new...".

Just human nature really, and despite that fact that a lot of us try to take as little kit as we can be comfortable in the field with (I know I keep trying to reduce the amount of kit as I'm bloody unfit), kit plays a vital role in bushcraft, whether it be bought or made, and some people are gadget mad. (Point in case, I do a lot of cooking and my sister-in-law can't believe how many gadgets I have in the kitchen).

 

[Gary]

Metala Cabinet I think you are spot on there.

Mors still uses a frost knife (or model there of - it used to be the wood handled Mora classic) after what 40 year in the business which shows his high regard for the knife and to my mind his humility and genuine skill as an instructor. It speaks volumes of the guys 'class' - however having said that there is nothing wrong with owning the best knife (or any thing else) you can afford as long as you dont lose prespective of what it is your buying.

The Wilderness gathering was a point to note, many people wondered around armed to the teeth! :yikes: I noted one chap who wore two axes, a neck knife and sheath knife on his belt and a third strapped to his sack (now I'm not say he didnt know how to safetly use them - all I'm say is there is a limit) - I didnt know whether to laugh or run! Honestly he was better armed than I used to be when I didnt full contact Dark Ages combat as a hobby and to my eye and probably the eye of anyone with an announce of experience you could see it was more ego and less ability that drove him (rambo or last of the mohicans?). On the other extreme I had a lady come over and ask me to help her sharpen her knife which was a well used Frosts training knife as I ran her through sharpening (which she already know - she just wanted refreshing and had the humility to ask) I asked her what she used it for and she produced from her daysack several very well carved and elegant spoons, I was very impressed.

Now who would you trust with a knife?

More to the point who would you want with you on a journey?

My long winded point - clothes (knives) do not maketh the man!

 

[Womble]

I assume this is a rhetorical question?

Nope, I'm genuinely stuck on level 4. <tries to keep a straight face>

 

[jakunen]

I didnt know whether to laugh or run!

In these cases I find it better to run THEN laugh. At least you're a safe distance away...):

 

[Metala Cabinet]

Sorry Womble I can't help you on that one but I'll get my son to ask around at junior school for the answer.also trying to keep a straight face.
Gary, I couldn't agree more. There's nothing wrong with getting the best kit you can but in the end the skilled practitioner can do good work with inferior kit. It's a matter of balance and priorities - better to know your stuff and have duff kit than be weighed down with expensive top-of-the-range gear and be clueless what to do with it.

 

[Gary]

Duff kit? Inferior kit?

Frost knives arent duffy kit! They may not waste money on handstitched leather sheathes or polished wooden burls from outer mongolia but they provide a 100% top quality, functional blade which is worth every penny and more, 300 years of production history and a swedish household name proves that.

Mors may have the ability to make do with a inferior knife but I doubt he would choose to use one (any more than you or I) and more importantly I doubt he would give them to his students to learn with if he thought them inferior! Where Mors trains his knife really is a tool he depends on, unlike us in blightly who mostly play at it.

This is the biggest con-trick of modern days - It is what advertisers get paid fortunes for by tv companies and big business - we are all doped into believing big is beautiful, the more you spend the better that thing is. Its capitalism at its best - quality doesnt have to cost a fortune. Indeed quiet often I have come across inferior kit which costs way more than its worth and superior kit which isnt as popular because its not seen on TV which is much better and cheaper!

 

[jakunen]

Here, here Gary!

Good kit isn't necessarily expensive, while inferior kit can be dangerous, whatever the cost.

I'm happy to pay a good price for decent kit, but if I can get perfectly useable kit at low prices, I'd rather do that and have more money for actually getting to go on trips and use my kit.

And I'd rather pay for what has been proven to be a good piece of kit rather than pay through the nose for an ok piece of kit that has been endorsed/designed by some famous name. If someone wants me to advise their kit they can pay ME not the other way round.

There's no point in spending a fortune on 'the' best kit (as modelled by the guy with the Crest ring of confidence smile), if you can't afford to get to the woods and use it.

 

[Kim]

These posts are incredibly reassuring. I've only just entered into the 'bushcraft world' and it can be really confusing when you're confronted with so many 'buy me's I'm the best', Gortex is God and 'you don't want to buy that make love, you want to buy this one...'

(who are you calling love anyway, don't mess with me, I've skinned a rabbit...)

From a novices point of view, kit is something I feel I need to have some basic understanding of, I guess you have to a know a little about the 'fantastic, expensive shiny' gear in order to know that you may not necessarily need it.

The more you know the more of a considered choice you can make.

 

[Gary]

Well put! :biggthump

 

[JakeR]

I like the feeling of a good knife, made by a craftsman, and having the feeling that what i have is certainly up for most tasks. (i'm only applying this to knives). And i also love knives, every one i would use, but i do like having a few to compare and enjoy.

 

[JakeR]

*add* but i do also agree with Gary on the sole practicalities.

 

[Metala Cabinet]

Gary. I've not explained my point properly. There's no way I would say that Frost knives are duff kit; I've got one myself and I think they're excellent. I wasn't pointing the finger at any particular piece of kit (and especially not Frost knives) but merely exaggerating for effect. I'm sure Mors knows his stuff and that's why he chooses to use a Frost knife. My point is that even if he was forced to use a crap blade he'd be able to do 'work' to a far higher standard than most other people using the same blade because he truly knows his stuff.
To give an example: my brother is a bricklayer and I've seen him do very good work with seriously rubbish equipment when he had to. It may have took him longer (and involved a lot more swearing) than if he had his own tools but because he really knows his stuff he can still do a high standard of work. However I, who have no ability at bricklaying, could have his preferred tools and still not build a wall it'd be safe to stand near.
And yes it's so true about people mistaking the money cost of an item for it's practical value for the task for which it's ostensibly designed. Too much weight is put on who can spend the most to promote an item or on which celebrity has lent their name and face to a product. It's even got to the point where some manufacturers have had to charge more than item's worth because otherwise people think that because their goods are cheap they must be inferior in quality. Mad world!

 

[Paganwolf]

yes well put Kim x that rabbit wont be messing with anymore carrots thats for sure !! :rolmao:

 

[Kim]

I am learning, however, that no matter how sensible you try to be as far as kit goes, you always seem to end up with certain items that are completely surplus but that YOU REALLY WANTED ANYWAY.

AND THEN YOU SPEND AGES PLAYING WITH THEM IN YOUR LOUNGE...all very outdoors.

My list of completely surplus items seems to be growing...

oh dear. :shock:

 

[Gary]

Of course knives are like that Jake, people collect knives as things of beauty, art like, they can be exprssions the makers skill, lovely to look at and treasure (I've never heard of someone collecting waterproof jackets or cotton t-shirts although I am sure someone does) but thats besides the point, would you really want to take a £500 damaccus blade with mother of pearl handle and mammoth ivory inlays into the field to butcher a dozen bunnies? And if you did would it make a better job of it than a frosts clipper?

Whatever you buy dont swallow the sales blurb to easily is all I am saying.

MC, Sorry mate I knew what you were saying and I didnt, for a second, think you thought Frosts were duff kit all I was saying in my long winded way was that just becaase something is inexpensive doesnt make it duff any more than somthing that costs a fortune is good.

Anyway isnt it amazing how this thread have now totally turned from Rays 'back to basics' approach (where have i heard that before?) on the first episode of the series into a debate about kit - maybe that is really a sad reflection on what kit junks we all are!

 

[jakunen]

(I've never heard of someone collecting waterproof jackets or cotton t-shirts although I am sure someone does)

I take it your parents never went abraod when you were a kid then mate

Mum and dad went to XXXX and all I got was this lousy t-shirt

 

[Gary]

Parents? What are they mate? And wheres abroad? :rolmao:

 

[Paganwolf]

if it works for you and you like it it doesn't matter if its got sprayway on it or Mr Buy Rights, (just an exsample you'd never see me in a shiny suit :rolmao: )but ! good outdoors gear usually has a name, even so if you bought a pice of ventile fabric and got your nan to knock up a smock it'll do the same job

 

[Gary]

Shiny suit and furry dice? Nice! :rolmao:

I can see Kim's white stilettos in your capri Jon!

 

[Kim]

[FONT=Century Gothic]white stilettos.

WHITE STILETTOS!!!!!! :yikes:



I have nothing to say.[/FONT]