Weekend's gear testing - Thoughts

[Quixoticgeek]

So my [thread=121879]weekend trip[/thread] was partly a kit shake down session. I had a few new things I was trying out. Some worked well, others, less so...

I thought some of you may find the thought processes useful/interesting.

• Seat matt: For years I have carried a German army folding sleep mat mainly as something to sit on, folded up it gives you lots of insulation from the cold ground when you sit for a cuppa. It is however very bulky, and for just a warm bum, quite bulky. So for this trip I tried out a replacement. Using a piece of silvered bubblewrap insulation similar to the pot cosy material that Backpackinglight sell. Only being cheap screwfix stuff, it has half the R value of the BPL stuff. But given I had it instock, it represented a "free" item, and so was worth a test. I copied the size of the German sleep mat, which is enough to fit an backside on, but if it's grassy, the grass is going to be in contact with you anyway. I am thus thinking of making one a bit bigger. It weighs next so nothing, so will certainly have a place in my pack. Not sure if I will leave the German mat behind yet tho.
  
• Sleep matt upgrade: With a whole roll of the bubble wrap I used for my sit mat still left over, I cut a 2m length to use as a sleep mat under my Exped synmat. It rolls up and weighs next to nothing, and in theory has an R value of about 4, not far off that of the exped. The BPL material has an R value of nearer 8! Which would work even better in winter conditions. As well as the added insulation from the cold ground, the purpose of this mat is to provide protection for the underside of my exped, keeping out thorns, stones, etc... In this, it seems to work well. I found a bramble under it in the morning. As an idea, it works ok, would work better with the better insulation of the BPL material... which is now on my shopping list...
  
• Food cosy: I had an off cut of the insulation stuff left over, so I fashioned it into a pocket type shape, kinda like a pot cosy, but just big enough for a single portion of meat. I made 2. One contained the chicken, one the sausages. As an idea, it kinda worked, it was a light weight way of transporting food without too much risk of damage. It didn't keep it as cool as would like, tho was still very good in the heat I was hiking in. Maybe I'll try it again with the BPL material and see if it is more effective
  
• Cat can stove: It worked, for the most part. The flame was erratic and heated the handles more than it had in my garden tests. The ali also softened a lot with the heating and cooling, so a slight nudge of the food meant it collapsed in on itself. Not ideal. Yeah it works, but I am definitely going to save up for the evernew set, I think the durability will be worth it. I also went through lots more fuel than I expected heating up 1.25L of water
  
• Tarp: With lines my British army basha is just shy of 1kg. If I replace this with the RAB siltarp 1 I shave 800g off my pack. When lowland camping, I do like to use a camo tarp tho, so I shall be investigating lightweight camo tarps...
  
• Pack: My deuter Futura 32AC pack is lovely, but it's 1.6kg, and while comfy with 16kg in, it's not ideal. Will be investigating alternatives.
  
• Sleeping bag: My Snugpak SF1 is lovely and small, but it seems to be getting colder as it gets older. Am not sure if that's me changing, or the bag. Will be contacting snugpack and asking them if there is anything I can do to get some of it's old performance back. There are so few decent centre zip sleeping bags out there I am loath to change it.
  
• Water bottle: My lovely Nalgene Stainless bottle is lovely, but it weighs the same as 350ml of water. Will be investigating alternatives. Maybe platy bottles. Maybe the plastic Nalgene. Suggestions welcome. It wont be the '58 pattern bottle tho.

So that's my tests from the weekend. Would be interested if anyone has any suggestions for ways to improve things, and suitable kit choices.

Thanks

Julia

 

[santaman2000]

Question: What's your objection to the 58 pattern? Is it the plastic material?

 

[copper_head]

Regarding the sit mat I always carry a cut down (say 1.5m) closed cell foam matt. Doubled or tripled over it makes a good seat, obviously you can lay out on it, it adds some extra insulation (and protection) to your sleep mat and can be used for a windshield. Weighs very little and cost a fiver. Pretty much what your doing with the reflectix but a bit more durable maybe?

Water bottles, I do love my Nalgene's but for lightness and value your not going to get better than a empty pop bottle or two.

 

[bearpark]

On the sit mat front I prefer the Multimat foam one. Cheap and light but not particularly massive. I tend to stick it down behind my water bladder, flat against my back. I carry a sheet of tyvek-type stuff too to keep my pack dry if the ground is wet.

I agree with copper_head on the pop bottle point, but if you've got some cash burning a hole in your pocket I highly recommend the Platypus Softbottle range.

I can't really add anything to your other points other than Osprey make some fantastic, lightweight-yet-sturdy packs. You'll pay a few quid for the upgrade but it's worth it IMO.

What is it about centre zip sleeping bags that you like so much?

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Question: What's your objection to the 58 pattern? Is it the plastic material?

I prefer round bottles. I used to use the 58 bottles, in the days when I would hike with a fullset of PLCE Webbing plus a berghaus vulcan pack.

On the sit mat front I prefer the Multimat foam one. Cheap and light but not particularly massive. I tend to stick it down behind my water bladder, flat against my back. I carry a sheet of tyvek-type stuff too to keep my pack dry if the ground is wet.

I agree with copper_head on the pop bottle point, but if you've got some cash burning a hole in your pocket I highly recommend the Platypus Softbottle range.

The platypus softbottle is top of my list. I am tempted by it largely as light weight backup bottle to carry, even if it's not my permanent use bottle.

I can't really add anything to your other points other than Osprey make some fantastic, lightweight-yet-sturdy packs. You'll pay a few quid for the upgrade but it's worth it IMO.

What is it about centre zip sleeping bags that you like so much?

Funnily enough, the top of the list pack wise is an Osprey pack. The one I am looking at is half the weight of the one I have now. I really like the look of the stow on the go system they have too.

As for centre zips: I first got into using them in cheap hammocks, and have since come to wonder how anyone would think to have anything other than a centre zip. It just makes more sense to me. I also like the fact that you can just stand up and the zip undoes as you do. They work so much better with hammocks and bivvi bags than any other kind of bag. I won't use anything else these days.

Julia

 

[redandshane]

On the stove front Pop can stoves are really great in Blue Peter sticky back plastic theory world; but in the field/reality they do not perform very well at all. See all the tests done in kitchens and sheds not out in the woods or on the hillside pissing with rain and howling a gale. If you re using meths then get a Trangia otherwise gas is far more efficient and convenient but costs more.

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

Dont believe the R values that get quoted. Bubble foil is fine as a pot cosy but it adds little if you are going to sleep on it. See below for R vlaues and how they are derived. Also allow for the fact that compression will lower the stated R value too. CCF doesnt have the greatest R value either but it doesnt deform as much and wont lose its air on sharps like bubble wrap.

(R 1.5) where the bubble layer is between two layers of foil without air spaces in front of the foil.

(R 3) where the bubble layer is between two layers of foil with only one air space in front of the interior facing foil.

(R 3.5) where the bubble layer is between two layers of foil with air spaces in front of the foils.

(R 3.5) where the foil layer is between two clear layers of bubbles acting as air spaces

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

On the stove front Pop can stoves are really great in Blue Peter sticky back plastic theory world; but in the field/reality they do not perform very well at all. See all the tests done in kitchens and sheds not out in the woods or on the hillside pissing with rain and howling a gale. If you re using meths then get a Trangia otherwise gas is far more efficient and convenient but costs more.

Have to disagree with that. My caldera cone and 12-10 pop can stove is much more efficient than a trangia. Its all about controlling the air flow. If the windscreen is up to the job then meths is a superb fuel

 

[tiger stacker]

Silk liner may help your softy sleeping bag, add a poncho liner too.
Nalgene do a canteen version of the GI water bottle, fellow bushcrafter Marti from finland can source Finnish canteens.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Silk liner may help your softy sleeping bag, add a poncho liner too.
Nalgene do a canteen version of the GI water bottle, fellow bushcrafter Marti from finland can source Finnish canteens.

I was using a Snugpak TS1 liner inside my sleeping bag. From skin out I had cotton clothes, TS1 liner, SF1 sleeping bag, Bivvi bag.

Then under me: Exped Synmat 7 UL, foil insulation thing, German army mat.

J

 

[PDA1]

Water bottle, as others have stated, use a pop bottle. Damn near indestructable and a 1 litre bottle weighs 37 grams.

If you want light, soda can alcohol stoves are definitely the way to go. However, they must (that is MUST) be properly windscreened. The Caldera cone type championed by Bare Thrills is a very good option, and much lighter and less bulky to pack than a Trangia 25 or 27. I find the super cat to be fiddly to use as you have to wait for it to bloom before placing your pot on it, and this must be done without a wind shield. Putting a wick in it gets rid of this problem and also makes it useable in freezing weather. See the companion forum thread Lightweight brew kit for pictures. I also find the capillary action type of pop can stove to be pretty fast and more fuel efficient than the supercat.

If you use a canister stove, it will also need to be properly wind shielded to get efficient use.

p.s. what are you heating 1.25 litres of water for? Seems rather a lot for one.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Water bottle, as others have stated, use a pop bottle. Damn near indestructable and a 1 litre bottle weighs 37 grams.

One of the bottles I was using is a 1.25L diet coke bottle. It works, but I do find they don't have the durability some people claim they have. I would like to move away from said coke bottle.

Current top of the list are the platypus soft bottle.

p.s. what are you heating 1.25 litres of water for? Seems rather a lot for one.

4 cups of tea plus a cup of gravy to go with dinner. The 1.25L wasn't all boiled in one go.

Julia

 

[tiger stacker]

How much water are you willing/able to carry.

Dromadary bags come in various sizes, from 2litres upwards.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ortlieb-Wat..._sim_sg_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1V0C85WWVBSV1EXF0M4M

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MSR-DROMEDA..._sbs_sg_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0A99Z9YFWH712CVF149F

I do tend to stick to rigid bottles though.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

How much water are you willing/able to carry.

I do tend to stick to rigid bottles though.

How much water to carry is the biggest issue, it's a bit like trying to make a more powerful rocket, more power equals more fuel equals more weight equals more power needed. I could have taken more than the 2.25L I took, but then I would drink more to allow me to carry more.

I don't want to have to carry lots of water, I would rather carry a small amount and refil often. Alas farmland is not awash with taps, and the streams were dried up, or the field next door had visible fertiliser on it. Large bladders like the dromodary bags have merit, around base camps, of for lots of people. For one, carrying it al yourself, for 24 hours overnight on the hottest day of the year so far, it's just too heavy.

I think I may end up with a solid bottle, probably a nalgene, and a pair of platypus soft bottles. Giving me upto 3l of water.

Julia

 

[northumbrian]

I use one of these for a sit mat - http://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-folding-sit-mat-782006?colcode=78200603 and here's a cheap-light weight water bottle - http://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-tritan-bottle-1l-787160?colcode=78716022 .just a quick add on ive just seen these for a water bottle - http://www.strikeforcesupplies.co.uk/index.php?method=stock&id=20301 .

cheers Andrew.

 

[spiritwalker]

have a look at source water bottles too they are like the platypus may be cheaper haven't really compared them though... just throwing another brand into it

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

have a look at source water bottles too they are like the platypus may be cheaper haven't really compared them though... just throwing another brand into it

the problem i find with platys and source bottles is they are a ball ache to fill. A rigid bottle is much easier. I carry a 1l pop bottle screwed onto my sawyer mini and an antigravity gear silnylon gallon water bag for camp of an evening. It weighs 18g for a gallon of storage so pretty damn good.

I own a 2 litre source liquitainer and the 1l too. good bottles but i tend to carry alcohol in them lol

 

[Joonsy]

I don't want to have to carry lots of water, I would rather carry a small amount and refil often. Alas farmland is not awash with taps

it is around here, they are called water troughs for livestock, just hold down the float and you have a tap to get your water from, sometimes they have a nut and bolt on the lid though as a lock.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

it is around here, they are called water troughs for livestock, just hold down the float and you have a tap to get your water from, sometimes they have a nut and bolt on the lid though as a lock.

Alas the area I was hiking in was largely hay meadows or arable land and as such no water troughs. I did look.

Julia

 

[Joonsy]

Alas the area I was hiking in was largely hay meadows or arable land and as such no water troughs. I did look.

Julia

Hi Julia, no trough in that field with the sheep in on pic 2 of your other thread? by the way loved the trees in first & last pic ATB