waterproofing versus water management
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Spent three hours today walking in constant light rain wearing a wool duffel coat with a wool base and mid oayer underneath. The coat was damp at the end, no more, and although its inside around the shoulders was also damp my mid layer was bone dry. The other thing was I felt much more at home in the wet wearing something that absorbed the water rather than something that repelled it.
Just a small test I know, but an encouraging start.
Just a small test I know, but an encouraging start.
I worked in the BC bush for years. We tried the various synthetics with no luck. The trouble is there are no so called breathable synthetics that breath well enough during exertion,real work. We wore wool, pants and shirt/sweater, in the rain as well, unless it was a downpour then we would dawn a waterproof for a short period gladly taking it off when the downpour was over so we could breath again. We used to like it when we stopped working , you could see the steam rising off our shoulders. Today i wear wool when hiking and throw on a down jacket and cotton anorak when i stop for lunch or camp.
bill
Ps when working in the bush we could get our wool cloths dry every night,,,that's important.
bill
Ps when working in the bush we could get our wool cloths dry every night,,,that's important.
http://www.timberlineinternational....r/cold-weather-oilskin/oilskin-butterfly-cape
I'm going to try one of these soon - lots of different versions available - just Google NZ butterfly cape or carry cape. (A carry cape because they are meant to be good for carrying an animal out without getting too much blood on your back.)
I'm going to try one of these soon - lots of different versions available - just Google NZ butterfly cape or carry cape. (A carry cape because they are meant to be good for carrying an animal out without getting too much blood on your back.)
You can stay dry all winter wearing just wool if you have a thin goretex layer over the top.
It's great seeing a bunch of wool clad people all steaming away like kettles around a campfire, trying to dry out between downpours.
Wool is perfect for dry cold and damp weather but if it's going to pour down with rain and you're going to be staying out in it, you're going to get soaked through.
It's great seeing a bunch of wool clad people all steaming away like kettles around a campfire, trying to dry out between downpours.
Wool is perfect for dry cold and damp weather but if it's going to pour down with rain and you're going to be staying out in it, you're going to get soaked through.
Treadlightly thinks it should be possible to keep weather out with wool only and will put this to the test?
John, Ive got goretex jacket's, but i rarely use them,when im out camping etc(mostly beach stuff so in the exposed open) i do tend to use as a outer garment a old dye'd swedish snow smock over varying layers of man made or natural fibre clothing, and do sit /walk around if there's shower's etc and i am ok, but if it became a heavy prolonged downpoor its under the tarp of in the tent, if i stayed out in them without goretex or the like,id be soaked through and then be uncomfortable the rest of time out,and that's why i agree totally with Squidder's last line. I personnely dont find wool in anyway waterproof,and i have a few good wool layer's yes they are warm,comfy,and ok in the damp,but take a age to dry when soaked.
Before synthetic fabrics were developed then wool was used extensively as a waterproof layer.
I rather think that wool of the apropriate type/weave/treatment is readily available these days (replaced by cheap synthetics and now uneconomic to produce) but a good tight-woven/felted oiled wool would most likely be a lot more waterproof than most woolens easily available today.
Personally I find a good Ventile - especially double layered - over a wool layer a warm, comfortable and almost totally waterproof layer system. If that prooves too warm then I usually throw a poncho on over a single Ventile to beat a thorough downpour
I am looking forward to hearing the results of Treadlightlys test as I would prefer to go "all natural" in my clothing.
Most of my outdoor activity now centres around camp due to old injuries making themselves felt - but lat time I spent any time in thrashing rain I was wearing the jacket I made from the fabric Topknot found - a Ventile clone type fabric (ultratight woven cotton but with a surface treatment of some sort of wax that apears to be fire retardant) and even after 30 mins in pouring rain my body was still dry ... my legs in cotton combats were soaking and I was so wet my socks were soaked from water running down my legs!
It was a good thing I was in town doing the Xmas shopping and could go home and get dry!
The fabric of the jacket is so waterresistant that when I put it on a 40degree was with ordinary non-bio powder the jacket did not get cleaned of its construction marks as the water did not penitrate the fabric!
In hot weather the jacket feels as light and comfortable as Ventile...
Having tried various MVP waterproof over the years as part of my paying work I think that mostly they are uncomfortable, overpriced, un-ecco and too shortlived compared to naturals and if you can "manage" water ingress rather than rely on wearing MVPs (like managing wet/dry clothing in the jungle for instance) and stay within your comfort tollerances then great
Let us see how the light footed one gets on with the wool
I rather think that wool of the apropriate type/weave/treatment is readily available these days (replaced by cheap synthetics and now uneconomic to produce) but a good tight-woven/felted oiled wool would most likely be a lot more waterproof than most woolens easily available today.
Personally I find a good Ventile - especially double layered - over a wool layer a warm, comfortable and almost totally waterproof layer system. If that prooves too warm then I usually throw a poncho on over a single Ventile to beat a thorough downpour
I am looking forward to hearing the results of Treadlightlys test as I would prefer to go "all natural" in my clothing.
Most of my outdoor activity now centres around camp due to old injuries making themselves felt - but lat time I spent any time in thrashing rain I was wearing the jacket I made from the fabric Topknot found - a Ventile clone type fabric (ultratight woven cotton but with a surface treatment of some sort of wax that apears to be fire retardant) and even after 30 mins in pouring rain my body was still dry ... my legs in cotton combats were soaking and I was so wet my socks were soaked from water running down my legs!
It was a good thing I was in town doing the Xmas shopping and could go home and get dry!
The fabric of the jacket is so waterresistant that when I put it on a 40degree was with ordinary non-bio powder the jacket did not get cleaned of its construction marks as the water did not penitrate the fabric!
In hot weather the jacket feels as light and comfortable as Ventile...
Having tried various MVP waterproof over the years as part of my paying work I think that mostly they are uncomfortable, overpriced, un-ecco and too shortlived compared to naturals and if you can "manage" water ingress rather than rely on wearing MVPs (like managing wet/dry clothing in the jungle for instance) and stay within your comfort tollerances then great
Let us see how the light footed one gets on with the wool
Thankfully we've had a bit more rain round here of late to test my wool's waterproofness, if that's a word.
To answer squidders' point first, the theory I'm hoping to test is that with layers of wool, even if water soaks through you remain comfortable and warm.
Anyway, I've recently enjoyed a couple of three hour walks in pretty consrant and fairly heavy rain with my trusty wool duffel, a wool medium weight jumper underneath and a wool base. Again I have been quietly amazed at the duffel!s ability to keep out the water.. Iti isn't particularly thick but fairly densely woven and the inside of the fabric was dry, even on the shoulders after my jaunts.
Nothing appeared to get through to even the mid layer never mind the base layer. Afterwards the coat was wet and remained wet overnight and well into the next day but at no stage was it uncomfortable to wear, which is the main point I think.
I plan more stringent tests when the weather allows ans when it really chucks it down I will wear a wool cape over my main outer layer which I hope will do the trick.
Thanks guys for your interest.
To answer squidders' point first, the theory I'm hoping to test is that with layers of wool, even if water soaks through you remain comfortable and warm.
Anyway, I've recently enjoyed a couple of three hour walks in pretty consrant and fairly heavy rain with my trusty wool duffel, a wool medium weight jumper underneath and a wool base. Again I have been quietly amazed at the duffel!s ability to keep out the water.. Iti isn't particularly thick but fairly densely woven and the inside of the fabric was dry, even on the shoulders after my jaunts.
Nothing appeared to get through to even the mid layer never mind the base layer. Afterwards the coat was wet and remained wet overnight and well into the next day but at no stage was it uncomfortable to wear, which is the main point I think.
I plan more stringent tests when the weather allows ans when it really chucks it down I will wear a wool cape over my main outer layer which I hope will do the trick.
Thanks guys for your interest.
Great update.
I would advise you to take some spare clothes in really really heavy rain conditions, as once even the best wool reaches a certain saturation point you will loose a lot of body temp very very quickly.
Any chance of some pics of your kit?
I would advise you to take some spare clothes in really really heavy rain conditions, as once even the best wool reaches a certain saturation point you will loose a lot of body temp very very quickly.
Any chance of some pics of your kit?
How are you finding the weight? I often wear wool, albeit not full layers and i'm wondering what the real penalty is over modern light-weight materials. Also, to take overnight and half of the next day to dr out, the clothes must have been carrying a weight of water too.
The duffel weighs 1.8kg dry and comes down to below the knee. Next time it gets wet i will weigh it to see how much extra weight of water it absorbs. But even when it was well sodden i didn't feel the extra weight.
I wear mostly wool these days in the woods. My experience has been that wool's ability to keep you warm when wet is greatly overestimated. Every time a part of me has gotten wet, it has been noticeably colder. A few weeks ago I was out, and got the knees on my wool pants wet. It was fine while I was moving around, and generating heat, but when I stopped, and certainly why I slept, I could feel the cold exactly in the areas where my cothing had gotten wet.
Wool gets wet very readily. You can treat it to make it more water resistant, but that adds significant weight to an already heavy material. Cotton overcoats are fine for the wind, but in my experience do not do much better in the rain.
Wool is a good material, but we have to understand its limitations. To disregard them is not wise. As far as weight, untreated wool clothing with a cotton cover provides about half the insulation per kilogram as modern synthetic clothing: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2011/12/comparison-between-modern-and-early.html
This has been just my experience. At the end of the day, we like what we like, and no amount of data will change that. After all that is why I wear wool clothing despite its limitations when compared to modern clothing.
Wool gets wet very readily. You can treat it to make it more water resistant, but that adds significant weight to an already heavy material. Cotton overcoats are fine for the wind, but in my experience do not do much better in the rain.
Wool is a good material, but we have to understand its limitations. To disregard them is not wise. As far as weight, untreated wool clothing with a cotton cover provides about half the insulation per kilogram as modern synthetic clothing: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2011/12/comparison-between-modern-and-early.html
This has been just my experience. At the end of the day, we like what we like, and no amount of data will change that. After all that is why I wear wool clothing despite its limitations when compared to modern clothing.
For me at least, today, St David's Day, marks the end of winter. I can honestly say I have been out and about since November without any plastic/laminate to protect me from rain, not even my nylon poncho was needed. Wool has done the job superbly protecting me from rain, snow and sleet. Roll on the spring rain.
Sounds great fun!
The only plastics I have had to wear all winter have been bits I have had to review - personal time was/is spent in wool and Ventile
Does that view come across in your reviews of kit John??
I respect your views totally in the ventile / wool v synthetics argument.
I do wonder how given your views which you've extensively given here on BCUK you stay objective and relatively impartial when reviewing say a goretex jacket for Gun Mart??
http://www.gunmart.net/accessories_review/harkilla_pro_hunter_
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