washing up

[Thoth]

+1 for mares/horse tail [Equisetum] as 'natures brillo-pad. I cleaned out my crusader-mug a few weeks ago with nothing but a handful of this plant (just the 'leaves' not the main stem) and a very small amount of water. It came up better than using detergent & our usual household pot-scrub. I brew tea in my mug as it boils on the stove so the tannin staining was substantial before I started with the horsetail. Came up good as new and dealt with burned-on rice too. I'd have used horse-chestnut leaves if I'd have had any as they do lather-up well. Birch does the same but you get a lot of small broken bits of leaf to deal with and I didn't have much water spare to rinse with. Horse-chestnut leaf remains are less messy. Worth remembering if you intend to wash yourself and don't want to end up covered in little green bits of leaf!

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

Sand from the river.

Maybe leave outside for dogs if lots stuck to the pot. In morning bring back inside and wash. Hungry dogs will lick everything off a cooking pot except the metal - but they try..

Don't forget to give it wash out though as normal.

 

[cbr6fs]

One question, how can a drop of soap be more environmentally unfriendly then the plastic bags you get the Boil in bag food in....

I just use a bit of boiling water and a scotchbright if the food is stuck on

Hi Stu,

Not using soap is my choice, as i say in areas of heavy traffic like say Angle tarn you may only be using a bit of soap, but it's a rare day that there is at least 1 person camping there in all but the worst conditions.

Lets say 1 person uses 1 litre of water for cleaning themselves and their pots, i don't think it's a stretch to say at least 500 people camp there each year, that all adds up to a fair bit of dirty water.
Now throw in human waste, say 2 urinations per stay account for say 1 litre and that really does start to add up.

It's like if every camper had a fire, there are areas that would be hardly changed and heavy traffic areas like say the Peak district or the Lake district that would be unrecognisable after a few years due to the amount of fire scars.


So it's not just the impact we make ourselves that needs to be taken into consideration it's also the area, the throughput of people etc etc.

Now i'm not saying if every camper used a bit of soap it'd turn Angle tarn into a green toxic waste, but i'm also of the view that it can't be doing it or the people that take water from there any good either.

So my own personal choice is to try and minimise the impact i have on any area i stay, part of that is carrying out my waste, the other is trying to act responsibly.


Should clarify that i don't leave my plastic bags on site, i bag EVERYTHING and carry it out, once i;m in a village or town then i'll place the items i've used in the appropriate recycle bin.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I have found that with careful menu planning, you can avoid all the washing up. Sausages cooked over an open fire, then served in a bun, no washing up... Bacon sarnies for breakfast...

I do carry a folding washing up bowl on some trips, but have yet to find a good solution for the rest of the wash kit, I'll watch this thread with interest.

Julia

 

[BlueTrain]

I keep wondering which planet soap comes from, if it's so unnatural. However, in any given place, it's going to rain enough, especially in the U.K., to cancel out the effect of just about anything short of a gallon of oil being poured on the ground. But trash is another story. I'm always surprised at how much trash, both paper and plastic, I generate even on a day trip.

I was also thinking about fires, too. Three-quarters of the places I go do not allow fires, so there is no source of ashes and I think sand is much too harsh on the sort of utensils I have. And leaves just don't do it for me. So it's the traditional method of using detergent and hot water. But I also always have along some paper towels (that's one of the sources of the trash I mentioned). The paper towels don't have a million uses but they do have at least two. It's worth the effort to avoid getting the utensils dirty in the first place.

 

[John Fenna]

If you want a simple, easy to carry bowl....
Take a piece of waterproof fabric a couple of foot square (this can double as a "take off pad" groundsheet for by your hammock, seat cover, kneeler etc etc) and with it line either a depression in the ground or line a "raised depression" formed by putting a couple or four bits of firewood/rocks/mounds of leaf-mould/soil/whatever - instant bowl!
A binbag works just as well as fabric and can later be used to carry home all the trash....

 

[pysen78]

Lots of great tips in this thread I'll take with me.
The use of horse tail, I've never previously heard of, and shall try out. Any kind better than the other? (I think Shady- Field- and Wood Horse tail are the most common in Sweden.)
The "bag of twigs" thingy for catching leftovers. Good thing to use when several people are out together.

A note on the use of detergents and pollution. If you pour your soapy water on the ground a good bit away from the water, then no great harm is done. Earth bacteria are good at handling that kind of stuff. It's when you pour it back into a stream or lake that you do most harm.
I occasionally work with city drain systems, and it's astonishing, the levels of pollution that nature can handle. Small amounts of anything, even diesel, can be dealt with by bacteria as long as it doesn't go directly into open water and damages the micro-cultures there. It's when you move above threshold amounts and bacteria can't cope, that you're in trouble.

 

[mrcharly]

I keep wondering which planet soap comes from, if it's so unnatural.

You know soap is not the same thing as detergent, don't you?

 

[cbr6fs]

I keep wondering which planet soap comes from, if it's so unnatural. However, in any given place, it's going to rain enough, especially in the U.K., to cancel out the effect of just about anything short of a gallon of oil being poured on the ground.

Deadly nightshade, European yew, Oleander, Rosary pea, Hemlock all grow naturally on the same planet, you really wouldn't want to go eating any great quantity though.

Even things that seem harmless like apples, pears etc contain trace amounts of Cyanide, many beans contain trace amounts of Ricin.

All natural and all deadly enough of processed or if consumed in enough quantities (you'd have to be pretty determined to eat enough apple seeds to harm yourself)

Earthquakes, Tsunami's, floods, Hurricanes, methane, volcano's, Malaria and a million other things that cause thousands or millions of deaths each year also come from the same planet.

In fact the only thing that i can think of that does NOT come from this planet that causes harm, death and destruction is asteroid impacts, other than that every single death and illness on this planet is caused or is a result of something that comes from this planet.



As i say it's 100% my choice, i'm not telling anyone else what they should or should not do.

It's only basic common sense that if enough people dump even a small amount of a chemical into a small lake it's only a matter of time before problems start to occur.

Rain run off isn't a answer either, as if a lake becomes polluted with human waste (including pot washing detritus and soaps) then all the run off will just go down to the next lake and/or river.


Again this is just my choice when i visit areas that have a high footfall or high rate of campers.
As yet, out of 30 odd years of camping i can't honestly say as i've once thought "i wish i'd bought some dish washing soap with me" so it's not like i'm living any great hardship by mot taking washing up liquid.

 

[Goatboy]

An unlikely one that was on Gardeners Question Time the other year was if you have stuff burned on to the pan was to leave it for the slugs, their rasping mouthparts get even welded stuff off.

 

[Harvestman]

An unlikely one that was on Gardeners Question Time the other year was if you have stuff burned on to the pan was to leave it for the slugs, their rasping mouthparts get even welded stuff off.

Great idea. You can pack a slug in a small container, and it weighs nothing in your pack, and is there when you need it. Then afterwards all you need is a way to get the slug slime off, which isn't easy because it is waterproof. You need to sort of scour it off, with ash for example. Oh wait...




(I'm trying to be humorous, in case anyone takes offence)

 

[Goatboy]

Great idea. You can pack a slug in a small container, and it weighs nothing in your pack, and is there when you need it. Then afterwards all you need is a way to get the slug slime off, which isn't easy because it is waterproof. You need to sort of scour it off, with ash for example. Oh wait...




(I'm trying to be humorous, in case anyone takes offence)

They did say that you had to wash off the slime, but it was mainly for getting roasting dishes and the likes clean after use. I just liked the idea of making slugs useful. Most folks hate them. I suppose you could purge wallfish (snails) in a dirty pan before eating them, a nice fresh source of protein that does the dishes for you! How lightweight is that.

 

[Harvestman]

It is a good tip.

 

[cbr6fs]

Think i'd sooner eat the burnt bits than slug trails

 

[woodsorrel]

When I take groups out in the woods, hygiene becomes very important. I remember a study by the National Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS) a while back that found illness due to poor hygiene was a common problem.

For dishes, I take two or three collapsible "sinks". These are shallow waterproof fabric pails that store as 4-inch disks. The first pail is filled with water to "rinse". The second pail is filled with soapy "camp suds" water. If using the two-pail system, the dishes are left in the soapy water while the first pail is refilled with clean water. To the clean water I add a couple of drops of chlorine bleach. The dishes are then taken from the soapy water, dunked in the bleach water, and then air-dried.

I wash at least 100 feet from natural water sources. As long as the soapy water is allowed to dry away from natural water sources, the small amount of soap I use should break down in a relatively short amount of time.

I also carry a small square of screen door material (stored rolled-up in a pot). I empty the pails through the screen door mesh. This captures small amounts of food that I transfer to my garbage bag to carry out.


- Woodsorrel

 

[Harvestman]

Some really excellent tips in this thread.

 

[BILLy]

Thanks all for your inputs and advice, its just what i was looking for, it's given me a lot to think of, I think every one of us has it in them to do the naturally correct thing,be it for ease of carrying caring about our land, but in certain circumstances it can't be done, so other methods can be used, ill try to clean my pots and pans with naturally sourced materials when I can from now on, and when I can't ill use a small amount of either (if I can research some) processed natural soap, there is bound to be someone selling this stuff that has no or less harming chemicals in it, or come to that I may even research making my own.
Cheers
Bill

 

[bearbait]

...For dishes, I take two or three collapsible "sinks". These are shallow waterproof fabric pails that store as 4-inch disks. The first pail is filled with water to "rinse". The second pail is filled with soapy "camp suds" water. If using the two-pail system, the dishes are left in the soapy water while the first pail is refilled with clean water. To the clean water I add a couple of drops of chlorine bleach. The dishes are then taken from the soapy water, dunked in the bleach water, and then air-dried...

I always use the two-pail system - both in camp and at home, albeit without the chlorine. I recall reading an old Scouting manual from the 20s/30s stating this system for washing up. In fact I think it suggested two rinsing stages.

I always like to use VERY hot water, with detergent, for the washing stage, figuring that the heat of the water will help kill a good number of the bugs. Rubber gloves minimise the pain in the digits when doing the actual washing, although perhaps not "cool".

At home I used to use the dogs to do the initial clean of baking trays and so on. They get rid of all the fat/grease, saving kitchen paper, and have a good go at the burnt-on bits. Then a soak in hot water for a while before the "proper" wash. No snail trails that way.

 

[BlueTrain]

To Mr. mrcharley, I am mostly aware of the difference between soap and detergent (you can use both to wash you hands but not your face, for instance) and to 6br6fs (how do you pronounce that?), I am also aware that there are many natural things that are dangerous. My point was that in one sense, everything is natural. But I am speaking of doing these things in the middle of the woods where fewer than 500 per year do visit overnight. I'm not speaking of the local park, your front lawn or Salisbury Plain but the middle of the woods. There is no runoff when it rains, except for the gully washers and frog stranglers; everything soaks into the ground, which is always at least damp. When I do camp in places visited by at least 500 people a year, I go to the wash house, same as everybody else.

Remember, I lived in a place with no inside toilet once upon a time. Everything went into the ground. Wastewater from the sink (there was running water of sorts, sometimes) went one place, everything else went somewhere else. And the cinders and ashes from the coal stove and the wood-burning kitchen range went in another place. The grass was really green around the johnny house. At home where I live now, we have modern conveniences and good water all the time. But I also sometimes hand-wash large garments that I don't want to go through the washing machine, because it's hard on certain garments. I use cold water, a large bucket and Woolite detergent. I dump the water on the grass on the lawn, Chesapeake Bay drainage notwithstanding. I feel confident I am causing no environmental damage and it doesn't repel the foxes, the deer or the raccoons either.

 

[cbr6fs]

To Mr. mrcharley, I am mostly aware of the difference between soap and detergent (you can use both to wash you hands but not your face, for instance) and to 6br6fs (how do you pronounce that?), I am also aware that there are many natural things that are dangerous. My point was that in one sense, everything is natural. But I am speaking of doing these things in the middle of the woods where fewer than 500 per year do visit overnight. I'm not speaking of the local park, your front lawn or Salisbury Plain but the middle of the woods. There is no runoff when it rains, except for the gully washers and frog stranglers; everything soaks into the ground, which is always at least damp. When I do camp in places visited by at least 500 people a year, I go to the wash house, same as everybody else.

I believe i was very clear in my statement

I'm also concerned about the environmental impact if i use soap.
All because it says "biodegradable" on the packet it doesn't really mean anything, even mountains are "biodegradable" given enough time.

On some of my hikes/camps it's unlikely that spot will see another camper within my life time, so the cumulative effect will be inconsequential, if i'm camping somewhere like Angle tarn or Red tarn though these places see campers pretty much every day of the week, often it's difficult to find a decent camping pitch because they're so busy.
So in these areas even a mild detergent will have a cumulative effect, PLUS many hikers use these tarns as a water source so it's even more important to keep out any detergents.

As i say personally i choose not to use dish washing detergent, as i say for the type of cooking i do i've never really felt the need.