Ventile Poncho

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Is £110 too much?


  • Total voters
    162

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
Looks like we are on target to get the poncho to Wayland to bring it to the moot to show everyone. :D

Should be with Wayland sometime next week. Final modifications as per Lawrence/BushVen's last comments are being undertaken.

LBL
 

crazydave

Settler
Aug 25, 2006
858
1
54
Gloucester
not sure why I've just caught this thread, having used american, german and civvy poncho's I think the brit 58 pattern has the best design as it was designed to go over kit but the super thick super tough material made it uncomfortable to wear.

the US ones are too flimsy and like the rubber german one are smaller than the brit. I can camp out under a brit one all week.

one thing that is missing from the design is a waist tie so you can stop it blowing allover and most ponchos have snaps along the edges so you can double them up, fold them over or make sleeves out of it and turn it into a rain coat.

just my 10p's worth but if you are going to copy a design then you should pick the best :)
 

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
not sure why I've just caught this thread, having used american, german and civvy poncho's I think the brit 58 pattern has the best design as it was designed to go over kit but the super thick super tough material made it uncomfortable to wear.

the US ones are too flimsy and like the rubber german one are smaller than the brit. I can camp out under a brit one all week.

one thing that is missing from the design is a waist tie so you can stop it blowing allover and most ponchos have snaps along the edges so you can double them up, fold them over or make sleeves out of it and turn it into a rain coat.

just my 10p's worth but if you are going to copy a design then you should pick the best :)

The Poncho was modelled initially on the 58 Pattern Brit one but after some feedback was made a bit larger.

Wayland now has the Poncho for testing and will take it to the moot for people to see. I am sure he will give his thoughts as and when......:D

LBL
 

lmanton

Tenderfoot
Jun 11, 2007
98
0
Shropshire, UK
I am very interested also please. Unfortunately due to other commitments, I am unable to attend the bushcraft moot. Will it be possible to still get one before September?
 

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
I am very interested also please. Unfortunately due to other commitments, I am unable to attend the bushcraft moot. Will it be possible to still get one before September?

Ermm, well. It has taken nearly a year to get this far....so September 2011? ;):p

Seriously, it all depends if Wayland's final testing is positive, how much, if anything further NEEDS to be done to the design. Plus the feedback from the moot. It may mean that the poncho will need to go back for further modifications. Personally I am less keen on endlesslessly adding/changing things on it to take in everyone's foibles and wants (I would like an expresso maker attachment on it...but I expect that is taking it a little too far :lmao:) After this, depending on demand (they will be made to order), agreeing on a final price (hopefully in the region of what we first envisaged and taking into account inflation and material costs increases) we can look to getting these out to people who want them.

Bags me first in the queue :eek::argue::twak::AR15firin
 

Tripitaka

Nomad
Apr 13, 2008
304
0
Vancouver Island, BC.
I LOVE ventile! Much better than this Gore-Tex muck but only when you look after it.

My British Army SAS Ventile jacket that I bought back in the late '80s has only just given up the ghost on me but I'm still looking at ways to repair it. With the right proffing there is nothing to beat it.

I'm very interested in this. I'll take a look at the moot.
 

Jacko

Life Member
Aug 3, 2004
420
1
54
SHROPSHIRE
I for another shall have a look at this at the moot as well. Sounds spot on for our needs, please add me to any list going, now or in the future!!:) :swordfigh
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
OK... I got the poncho just before the weekend, so I took it with me to Womad, which was nicknamed Womud last year, but this year was blazing hot all weekend.

Not much of a test there then, but I did set it up as a sun shade for a little while which it handled with no problems.

I've just compared it with my issue poncho and it comes in at 300g heavier (Roughly 1200g as opposed to 900g for the synthetic one.) but it feels a lot nicer and is much more comfortable to wear.

It's slightly longer and very slightly narrower. Pack size is bigger but it still fits in the top pocket of my bergen where I normally pack my poncho.

The hood rolls back fairly well for hat wearers like me and functions well enough for people that like the confounded things. (In case you hadn't noticed I'm not a fan of hoods.) ;)

One thing I'm interested to see is whether the material stiffens up much when wet but we'll have to wait for some rain for that. My Double Ventile jacket stands up on it's own when really wet.

I think the web loops can be improved a lot. The current application is a bit over engineered and uses extra material, adding to the weight and presumably the cost.

I will try to put together my suggested construction on a test piece in time to take it to the moot and then send it back with the poncho.

Should get some piccies at the moot and sound out a few people as well. I'll probably use it as my main shelter on the Mors K. course so that should make a decent test.

Will post updates when I get back.
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
Ok, I took the poncho to the moot to give it a try and used it pretty much like I would use my squaddie poncho for a meet up.

Poncho-under-tarp.jpg


Some of the time it was used as a gear cover for my bergen and pack, and here you can see it doing just that with my squaddie poncho, which is very similar in size, being used on the left as an extra fly.

At meet ups this is typical of my most common use for a poncho but not much of a test.

I had intended to use it as my primary shelter on the Mors Kochanski course but in the end we did not need to move camps so that plan fell by the wayside.

Poncho-unbelted.jpg


I did get to test it out in the rain though and it performed well, as expected, in this task.

I am not a fan of hoods so not the best person to judge, but the hood seemed well made and up to the task as well. ( I suspect I will cut mine off and make it into a high collar with a drawstring instead of trying to roll the darned thing up.)

Here you can see the poncho fastened with the press studs down each side and the length is such that with a good set of gaiters I would consider myself well covered.

Poncho-Fastenings.jpg


The studs are laid out with female fastenings on the front edges and male on the rear, more on this later.

The loops have been repositioned so they no longer hang outside the line of the poncho but they still seem over engineered to me. I suspect they could hold down a marquee in a gale.

Poncho-alterations.jpg


I have made up a small patch with some suggested modifications on it. these would make the garment lighter, easier to make and still serve the same function.

Discussing this matter with people at the moot most agreed it would be an improvement with one comment being made that the tapes could be mounted flush with the edge and still be stitched into the inner side of the turned edge. A good suggestion in my opinion.

The tape fixings are made simply by cutting longways with a hot knife and this method is used on the popular Tatonka tarps with good effect.

An interesting suggestion was made by Stuart that buttonhole webbing could be used which gives a pre-made alternative available commercially.

It was also suggested that as this comes on a roll it could be incorporated into the seam along all the edges of the poncho giving a huge number of possible tie off points.

This might be worth looking into depending on the price as it would add to both strength and versatility.

Poncho-over-pack.jpg


With the stud fastenings connected together there is room for a small pack under the poncho, still giving adequate coverage to the legs at the rear.

Poncho-with-pack.jpg


The same pack worn over the top can be seen here.

This brings me to another minor modification which could be made.

A second way to wear a poncho is to bring the rear flaps to the front and the front flaps, over them, to the rear. A belt then secures it like so.

Poncho-Belted.jpg


This is the method used above with the pack in place.

However, with the press studs laid out as they are, this brings male studs to male studs and female to female.

If the studs were changed on one side so that the male were on the front and the female on the rear the poncho could be studded into this configuration without the need of a belt. A minor modification but a big advantage I'm sure you will agree.

As mentioned I did not get a chance to try it out as a shelter but being much the same size as my squaddie poncho I cannot see any reason it would not perform just as well in this roll.

The feedback I received on site was generally positive with quite a few people showing interest that they had not previously posted.

My own feelings are that this is a piece of equipment that I would make good use of. It is more comfortable in use than nylon, quieter but little heavier.

Being able to open up the whole garment, it is easier to dry than a jacket.

One final consideration, being breathable, unlike a nylon poncho, I would consider wrapping it around my sleeping bag to make a simple bivvi bag on occasions. This is another reason why the change of male / female studs on one side of the poncho would be very useful in my opinion.

Will I buy it? . . . Yes with the given modifications but I will probably want to get rid of the hood for my own use.
 

oetzi

Settler
Apr 25, 2005
813
2
64
below Frankenstein castle
On the subject of the location of the studs, my poncho from exped has them like this:
When laid out flat, short sides top and bottom, long sides left and right,
-the male studs are located on the lower left half and the upper right half of the long sides,
-the female ones on the upper left and lower right.
Thus one can close the poncho into one long tube.
BTW, I now know why it took so long to get a working prototype:
it took you so long to grow hair and beard to give the right appearance;)
 

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
Looking good! A fair and reasonable report Wayland. I have posted links to your review/report back to Dave at Hilltrek and I hope that the modifications can be looked at to see if/how they can be incorporated.

Then we will move to agreeing on price (I hope it will be close to what was initially invisaged) and then we can decide how orders will be taken. This will either be direct with Hilltrek or via myself (or another nominated person)

I reckon this is going to be a core bit of kit for me and replacing many items.

Thanks for your testing Wayland.

BCUK's first ventile poncho - designed by members is on its way :You_Rock_
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
Got to agree that the tapes used by Tatonka, although a bit surprising at first are an excellent feature. I was slightly concerned when I first opened my tarp to find there weren't any loops to pass my ridgeline through, it looked like they had been forgotten!

The tapes on the poncho looked horrible before, much better that they are tucked away and yet still functional. They may be over engineered, but at least they don't make a stylish poncho fugly!
 

littlebiglane

Native
May 30, 2007
1,651
1
52
Nr Dartmoor, Devon
Got to agree that the tapes used by Tatonka, although a bit surprising at first are an excellent feature. I was slightly concerned when I first opened my tarp to find there weren't any loops to pass my ridgeline through, it looked like they had been forgotten! The tapes looked horrible before, much better that they are tucked away and yet still functional. They may be over engineered, but at least they don't make a stylish poncho fugly!

I totally respect Wayland's views on the loops. He is much more knowledgeable when it comes to ponchos than me. However I am fairly ambivalent as to the design of the tape/loops as long as they don't hang down / don't snag and can hold up in a gale! :) However - if the feedback from Wayland and the others at the Moot say that these could be changed/improved then I am certainly one to support this.

LBL
 

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