Would people say its possible to survive along period in the wild in britain and europe without eating meat? Is there enough fruits and veg out there in the wild to support a man?
Vegietarian and Bushcraft
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In a word, no.
Edited to add, do a search on this site for the thread on Nomadic vegetarian, (I'd post a link but every link I post just shows the home page
thats what i thought, during the wimter months you would have to make camp somewhere and have gathered supplies during the summer. but i guess this would be time consuming. i dont eat meat now so i would find it difficult out in the wild, however i am considering a prolonged period out so i think meat would need to be on the menu (only small animals though and fish)
I'm not a very knowledgeable forager, but I'd have to agree with the above posts. Without being able to trap and eat meat, I think you'd expend far more calories in trying to gather a vegetarian diet than you'd consume in eating it.
I guess your right it would be easier to set a trap and wait rather than walk around all day looking for berries to eat. Even though i would rather avoid killing animals i believe in some enviroments it would be impossible to survive with out them.
Tadpole
If you go to the forum section you want i.e. "Kit Chatter", find the thread you want in the list but instead of left clicking to open it, right click then go to properties then highlight the URL at the bottom. Paste this into the thread and fanny`s your aunt.
Rich
It might be possible to surive without big mammals like deer but I think fish,shellfish and to a lesser extent small mammals and birds are so very important if not essential.
I don't think there is enough storeable vegtable protein and fat in the plants native to this climate to surive through winter .
I don't think there is enough storeable vegtable protein and fat in the plants native to this climate to surive through winter .
I'm not entirely convinced that it's currently possible to survive a long period in the wild in Britain at all - without breaking the law that is. And I think it unlikely that it was ever possible on a strictly vegetarian diet. Ovo-lacto-piscatarian, maybe...
its possible in the milder southern areas but it depends on just how vegetarian as some will eat fish or shellfish. however bugs would have to be the answer otherwise you wouldn't get enough fats and proteins unless you were fortunate enough to pitch camp under a mature monkey puzzle tree thats fruiting.
in most cases though you would have to preserve and stockpile food for the winter. the lack of summer would make life for the hunter gather extremely hard as a lot of croppable stuff is ruined just like my mates allotment. the only thing doing well is the pumpkins.
I wouldn't call it bushcrafting either as you would literally be down to pure survival at times if you wanted to live through it. if you planned well for the second year then you could get more comfortable by starting to plant out hedgrows and encourage growth.
in most cases though you would have to preserve and stockpile food for the winter. the lack of summer would make life for the hunter gather extremely hard as a lot of croppable stuff is ruined just like my mates allotment. the only thing doing well is the pumpkins.
I wouldn't call it bushcrafting either as you would literally be down to pure survival at times if you wanted to live through it. if you planned well for the second year then you could get more comfortable by starting to plant out hedgrows and encourage growth.
I was also a strict vegetarian, because to most meat available over here is from factory farms. But I'm 'softened' a bit: I would eat a freshly trapped/hunted hare if I should get one. Its illegal in the Netherlands to trap, but I think trapping (by yourself) is more 'humane' than the things that happen in the meat industry. A hare that lived his life free and than is choked to death in a trap is less cruel than a cow that is in a small box his whole life and eats powerfood, injected with growing hormones and stuff like that.
I wouldn't said this if I didn't known bushcraft.
I wouldn't said this if I didn't known bushcraft.
there is guy over here called fergus who is a professional forager - he describes himself as vegetarian except for road kill so is frequently eating badger burgers 
I often pass a dead deer and think about hacking a haunch off.
I often pass a dead deer and think about hacking a haunch off.
In a bush craft situation I think it would not be to much of a problem, however in a survival situation it will be different, flesh of some kind may become a necessity for life preservation, then revert back to normal diet when the situation no longer calls for it.
i think the the conclusion for a vegetarian is only eat meat when you really need it and make sure its treated humanely. whats the best meat to survive on, fish?
Depends on what meat is about, Rabbit is nice, and providing you eat all of it that is edible, you'll do ok. fish, squarrel, pigon. what more could a man need?
Didn't we do this one a while back?
I'm a card-carrying vegetarian (no meat, no fish) but I'm pragmatic enough to accept that in a true survival situation, I would certainly have to eat meat.
I have no issues with that as I'm assuming that any meat would be wild/killed by me.
I'm a card-carrying vegetarian (no meat, no fish) but I'm pragmatic enough to accept that in a true survival situation, I would certainly have to eat meat.
I have no issues with that as I'm assuming that any meat would be wild/killed by me.
there is guy over here called fergus who is a professional forager - he describes himself as vegetarian except for road kill so is frequently eating badger burgers
I often pass a dead deer and think about hacking a haunch off.
he also has or is trying to live of foraged food bit differnt than living wild of wild food
http://www.wildmanwildfood.com/index.html
he did a month and was going to go for a year dunno where he got to
ATB
Duncna
I've been vegetarian most of my life, and recently have changed my diet to gluten and dairy free too, effectively going vegan overnight
This isn't a moral rant, just that for health reasons it's better for me, that's me the individual, not me advocating it for anyone else, to limit my dietary options.
I could eat dairy and gluten products in small quantities in a survival situation but I just could not eat meat, including fish, in any circumstances.
I'm a pretty fair forager, not brilliant, but not stupidly inept either, and I think I could manage, but, if, and it's a big, big IF.
If I had enough good land to wander.
If I could find enough variety of plant life to exploit.
If I could find it a good year for some kind of nuts, or legumes for over Winter stand bys.
If I could live with lean times, and gorge in gluts to build up fat reserves for later.
I think it could be done, but I do think I'd end up lean and fit and worked to the bone. I'm certain this is why people took up farming.
I think we have the best of both worlds; productive arable farming and foraging for variety and seasonality .
cheers,
Toddy
This isn't a moral rant, just that for health reasons it's better for me, that's me the individual, not me advocating it for anyone else, to limit my dietary options.
I could eat dairy and gluten products in small quantities in a survival situation but I just could not eat meat, including fish, in any circumstances.
I'm a pretty fair forager, not brilliant, but not stupidly inept either, and I think I could manage, but, if, and it's a big, big IF.
If I had enough good land to wander.
If I could find enough variety of plant life to exploit.
If I could find it a good year for some kind of nuts, or legumes for over Winter stand bys.
If I could live with lean times, and gorge in gluts to build up fat reserves for later.
I think it could be done, but I do think I'd end up lean and fit and worked to the bone. I'm certain this is why people took up farming.
I think we have the best of both worlds; productive arable farming and foraging for variety and seasonality
.cheers,
Toddy
Having listened to Sandsnakes talk about this to some bushcrafting veggies, including a vegan; I know he would point out that the one thing missing from that particular diet is protein. This is a fairly fundamental building block to sustain the human body, and even in a bushcrafting situation let alone a survival one the one thing you need is protein. I have talked with some vegan bushcrafters and they didn't look like they were doing well on it. What became clear to me was that although they were eating some protein (from pulses & nuts & seeds) they were not eating enough to meet their bodies requirements.
Please, I'm not trying to offend anyone, or to promote the mass culling of small furry animals.
Having been in a couple of extreme bushcrafting environments where the menu choices were take it or leave it (i.e. to starve) you will disobey the cowgod in order to get through.
Please, I'm not trying to offend anyone, or to promote the mass culling of small furry animals.
Having been in a couple of extreme bushcrafting environments where the menu choices were take it or leave it (i.e. to starve) you will disobey the cowgod
in order to get through.
Vegetarianism was always a bit of a funny one for me. I never understood as a youth why people chose not to eat meat. Obviously, with recent programmes about the way our food is treated before it is culled, my perceptions have been altered. Unfortunately, it was always going to be a futile effort by the small minority who wanted to do good because the vast majority didn't either care or where ignorant of the facts. Saying that, maybe they did make a small difference somewhere.
Personally, I have no problem eating meat and taking the life of an animal for food. It could be argued that I kill the animal for pleasure, that I could go to the supermarket and just buy meat pre-packaged, but I have no idea the sort of life that animal had. Was it free to run about and eat a good diet? Was it mis-treated by the owner? I cannot say for sure. When i shoot an animal in the field, I am guaranteed that it has had a good life except when it has come into contact with mixy. This is man made, a disgusting disease to let loose on an animal, and has left many rabbits to die a horrible death. I would happily shoot a mixy rabbit without any feeling of wrong doing at all. Ending that animals suffering and stopping, or trying to stop the spread of the disease to other healthy warrens is my main objective in that situation. Ending an animals life is not something I take great pleasure in, well, except flies maybe! On the flip side, I don't start getting all wierd and make offerings to the soul of the animal I've just shot. It's clinical, shoot, drop the animal, switch to next target. I also don't get all buck fevered and blaze away all night. If I shot four in the first ten minutes, I'd just go for a walk around instead. You've got to prep them at the end, and I dislike gutting rabbits!
So, in the end, I sort of agree with the vegetarian philosophy, but I like meat too much to give it up!
Personally, I have no problem eating meat and taking the life of an animal for food. It could be argued that I kill the animal for pleasure, that I could go to the supermarket and just buy meat pre-packaged, but I have no idea the sort of life that animal had. Was it free to run about and eat a good diet? Was it mis-treated by the owner? I cannot say for sure. When i shoot an animal in the field, I am guaranteed that it has had a good life except when it has come into contact with mixy. This is man made, a disgusting disease to let loose on an animal, and has left many rabbits to die a horrible death. I would happily shoot a mixy rabbit without any feeling of wrong doing at all. Ending that animals suffering and stopping, or trying to stop the spread of the disease to other healthy warrens is my main objective in that situation. Ending an animals life is not something I take great pleasure in, well, except flies maybe! On the flip side, I don't start getting all wierd and make offerings to the soul of the animal I've just shot. It's clinical, shoot, drop the animal, switch to next target. I also don't get all buck fevered and blaze away all night. If I shot four in the first ten minutes, I'd just go for a walk around instead. You've got to prep them at the end, and I dislike gutting rabbits!
So, in the end, I sort of agree with the vegetarian philosophy, but I like meat too much to give it up!
