I agree, meat eating didn't cause humans to evolve into what we are now, no doubt it helped, as did cooking our food and learning to speak, and hunt, and work as a pack, migrating coperation, growing our own food helped also rather than rely on forage. No doubt sun-spots and solar radiation did add a little something to the melting pot as well. I'm sure that if our forbears had not eaten meat as part of their diet, we would have still evolved, maybe not as quickly or into humans as we know them now. We can never know, from pointing to meat and saying that eating meat was the cause of humanity as we know it, is not a simple answer, just look at hunter gatherers of today, they don't eat as much meat as part of their diet as say Domestica humas/ domesticated humans.
Vegietarian and Bushcraft
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Scots_Charles_River
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Chimpanzees are not prototype humans, they are a different branch of the tree, they split off millions of years ago, they eat more than insect and bugs they eat monkeys, and each other or some of them do.
Nothing magical about each and everyone of us, just random chance, some one has to win the loto, and nearly every week some one does. Humankind have had longer and played more times that is all The human brains is getting smaller, are we de-evolving?
Neanderthal has a bigger brain than us, and was fitter stronger taller more able, more prolific. we managed to wipe him out. :AR15firin
Shellsuit man is breeding faster than we are, we'll be over run and consigned to a footnote of history with in a few generations.
If it was as simple as we think, we'd be too simple to think.
This is a common fallacy that shellsuit man aka "The lower classes" are beeding faster than "us" , I assume 'us' being smarter than them? Your social class has little to do with intelligence, nor are they breeding any faster than the in past. the people on the bottom rung of the ladder, are infact, having less children than they did a few hundred years ago.
The middle classes with jobs and mortgages may predict they cannot have a career and more than two children and so , either consciously or subconsciously have a smaller family, but THEY have defined THEMSELVES as the intelligencia and imagine their success and other peoples failure is based on genetic prowess not culture.
We could wipe everybodies memories clean and start again, you will find intelligence is evenly distrubed amonst the classes and its the cultures and attitudes of where you live that define much of your sucess not genes. I live in an area where people are still frowned on me going to university , or they pass on attitudes to their children that school is unimportant because thats the attitude their own parents had.
Too be fair Tengu, I'm obviously a bit of a woose and not a total foodie. I have eaten woodlice, worms and maggots. By eaten I mean swallowed in a onerer and washed down with water straight after, so I didn't 'taste' them. It was more of a laddish 'dare' than a serious meal. Still, I managed not to honk so convinced myself I could do it if I had to.
As far as prototype humans is concerned, I would Imagine, like in most things, dumb luck had a lot to do with the survival/evolution of man along the way. My line would have been snuffed out if my granddad had of died during WWII. He came close, but fortunately Im still here to bore you all.:sulkoff:
Firecrest, you are right, to people who reason, what you do by your action is a much better indication of the quality of character than how you speak or dress. Unfortunately, to quote Bertrand Russell, Most people would rather die than think. Come to think of it most people do!
Still, I managed not to honk so convinced myself I could do it if I had to.As far as prototype humans is concerned, I would Imagine, like in most things, dumb luck had a lot to do with the survival/evolution of man along the way. My line would have been snuffed out if my granddad had of died during WWII. He came close, but fortunately Im still here to bore you all.:sulkoff:
Firecrest, you are right, to people who reason, what you do by your action is a much better indication of the quality of character than how you speak or dress. Unfortunately, to quote Bertrand Russell, Most people would rather die than think. Come to think of it most people do!
I'm lower working class and come from a long line of lower working class people, Sadly I'm also dumb as a box of rocks, so I'm well suited to be shell suited, but I have two things that most of shellsuit man doesn't have. Pride, humour, and a wardrobe. ok thats three things I have Pride, humour, a wardrobe, and a respect for my apperance, danm thats four things....
I'm lower working class and come from a long line of lower working class people, Sadly I'm also dumb as a box of rocks, so I'm well suited to be shell suited, but I have two things that most of shellsuit man doesn't have. Pride, humour, and a wardrobe. ok thats three things I have Pride, humour, a wardrobe, and a respect for my apperance, danm thats four things....
wow you really are poor if all you own in the world is a wardrobe! I have a chest of drawers going if you want it you poor thing
guys the arguments on both sides of the fence (lets call it) are well considered but if it came down to it and the only way to survive was to eat your fellow servivor would you have the guts for it, because i would like to believe i would.
The reason for the above question is because as some one said above meat is just that the flesh off an animal and well when it comes down to it we are animals.
The reason for the above question is because as some one said above meat is just that the flesh off an animal and well when it comes down to it we are animals.
Is the more courageous person the cannibal or the one who accepts fate while still remaining true to their moral standpoint ?
Toddy
Toddy
very true toddy and yes i believe your right the more courageous person is the one who accepts fate and stands to there morals but i would rather survive and still be here to tell the tale than accept it wouldnt you?
I watched a programme many years ago about the pilot who survived in the Canadian Artic because he ate from one of his dead passengers. Despite reassurances by his rescuers that what he had done was not wrong or unknown, and that discretion would be assured, word got out. Shunned, vilified, cause celebre, papparazzi, the lot ensued.
He ended by saying that if he had been given the same circumstances to deal with again he wouldn't do it. Sometimes it's not the world that isn't kind, but humanity.
Personally, if I were dead and you were hungry, feed and be strong. For myself, no, I wouldn't.
cheers,
Toddy
He ended by saying that if he had been given the same circumstances to deal with again he wouldn't do it. Sometimes it's not the world that isn't kind, but humanity.
Personally, if I were dead and you were hungry, feed and be strong. For myself, no, I wouldn't.
cheers,
Toddy
Remind me never to go out into the woods with you scary, as my wife says I die every night not sleep. Lol
Remember the Argentinian team that crashed in the Andes the survivors at the end lived on the meat from their dead teammates, no one vilified them if I remember correctly.
I remember hearing a very clever vegetarian moral dilema from the mouth of Ali G (of all people)......
"If i had a plate of cooked chicken in my right hand, a live chicken in my left hand, and i said to you that i'd kill the live chicken if you don't eat the cooked chicken, what would you do?"
"If i had a plate of cooked chicken in my right hand, a live chicken in my left hand, and i said to you that i'd kill the live chicken if you don't eat the cooked chicken, what would you do?"
Kill the bird, I'm not for eating it, that's all.
I'll clean it, cook it......just not in the pot I cook my food in.
cheers,
Toddy
I'll clean it, cook it......just not in the pot I cook my food in.
cheers,
Toddy
