Vegietarian and Bushcraft

[xylaria]

You can't avoid insect protien in wild plants and fungi. Everyone goes on about how no-one can live in the wild without red meat, we don't have a wild to live in, and meat is not that easy to catch without equiptment. Even if I got stuck somewhere, i am that inexperianced in any form of hunting and fishing I would be living off woodlice ect. Hell I have eaten enough drisophila lavae in my time, and tree aphids are yummy. Fergus the forager is still on his foraged diet the last I heard, he has being at it about six months.

 

[Toddy]

Having listened to Sandsnakes talk about this to some bushcrafting veggies, including a vegan; I know he would point out that the one thing missing from that particular diet is protein.
Having been in a couple of extreme bushcrafting environments where the menu choices were take it or leave it (i.e. to starve) you will disobey the cowgod in order to get through.

Protein is easy, it's getting the mix right that's hard.

Sorry, but no, fish makes me physically ill......I really am allergic......and meat is just not something I have ever considered to be 'food' for me, even when I did eat it, it was always under duress Now, I would literally starve than eat it.

There is a huge misperception that in a survival situation then all gloves are off and it's raw in tooth and nail. Not so, people are just that, people. If your ethos, your beliefs, your choices are such that to commit an act so against your nature is too repugnant then you will do without.
The fact that most humans are genuinely omniverous does not preclude the will of those who cannot subscribe to that view.

I'm genuinely not out to stir trouble, but there are a great many people, who for one reason or another, cannot, would not, eat meat. There is no one size fits all humanity.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Tadpole]

There is a huge misperception that in a survival situation then all gloves are off and it's raw in tooth and nail. Not so, people are just that, people. If your ethos, your beliefs, your choices are such that to commit an act so against your nature is too repugnant then you will do without.
cheers,
Toddy

Were the gloves really off, and I mean really off, then always do bushcraft with a slower fatter person. meat is meat after all when the gloves are off.
People just can't get to the point where they will do anything to survive. Most would rather starve to death, then go that one step beyond their owen flexible moral stand point.

 

[spamel]

If it came to the crunch, I'd even eat beetroot!

 

[Toddy]

But Spam, I like beetroot



cheers,
M

 

[spamel]

It's the devils' spleen!

 

[hog]

Remember Guys there is something called rabbit starvation, ok short term but you can actually starve to death on a long term diet of only rabbit meat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation
Link to wikki for those who might want a bit of background.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

Plenty of calories if you Farm crops. Just like when our ancestors stopped wandering. Why do we farm crops now ? Do we go out hunting for crops ? Potatoes have stacks of calories as do other staple root vegetables, that store over winter.

Nick

 

[robwolf]

hi to all if you are living off the land for any length of time say in winter there isnt much in the way of plants and the fungi has run out you are going to be missing one key thing vitamin b12 which comes from meat and dairy products its also found in fungi but not in winter so much as frosts get um, regards rob

 

[Tadpole]

hi to all if you are living off the land for any length of time say in winter there isnt much in the way of plants and the fungi has run out you are going to be missing one key thing vitamin b12 which comes from meat and dairy products its also found in fungi but not in winter so much as frosts get um, regards rob

B12 is mostly in the soil, so don't wash your root veg too much and you will be ok. Anyway and avrage human has enough B12 stored in their liver to live healthly for upwards of five years.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

Think it's Vitamin C that's the only vitamin that your body can't store, basically need it everyday. Hence - scurvy.

Nick

 

[Bimble]

The human brain is such an energy intensive organ that scientist don’t think we could have evolved, even in Africa, without switching our diet to a large proportion of meat. The protein needed to grow the brain just wasn’t available from any other food source.
Even our closest animal relatives are omnivorous. Yes, even the chimpanzees hunt other monkeys.( though you won’t see that in a Disney movie! :yikes: )
I doubt if it’s possible to survive at our latitude with just naturally occurring plant food sources. Why spend ten hours looking for a small tuber, when five minutes of kicking over logs will furnish you with a cup full of woodlice?
All that said, it is possible to live a vegetarian life style quite healthily in modern times, it’s not for me, but each to their own.
I am truly omnivorous, In my time I have eaten elephant, giraffe, Red deer, Zebra (my personal favourite) kudu, impala, crocodile, locusts, whale, grubs, lobsters, crabs, sushi of a thousand types, and even, though I don’t recommend it, tofu!
I also love sprouts, beetroot (sorry spam), greens, cabbage, carrots, beans, lentils; the list goes on. I also regularly eat vegetarian meals.
I have not felt guilt for any of the above as they have all been ecologically sourced, with the possible exception of the whale (I was not about to insult my host), in case anyone is upset by the list.
I will not however eat North Sea Cod, they are endangered!!!!
I find esoteric food politics a bit hypocritical. If you were hungry enough, and unfortunately plenty of people are on the planet, you’d eat anything!
P.s...........on second thoughts, possibly not Spamel, you don’t know where he’s been. (I await the crude one liners! )

 

[Tadpole]

The human brain is such an energy intensive organ that scientist don’t think we could have evolved, even in Africa, without switching our diet to a large proportion of meat. The protein needed to grow the brain just wasn’t available from any other food source.

if meat eating was linked to evolving, why has the chimp not evolved? meat has little to do with evolving... the practice of cooking food had more to do with evolution, and that included cooking vegetables.

 

[Bimble]

Evolution is a process of survival after mutation.
Hang on ‘cus this is going to get deep. It’s magical that I am alive. In order for me to exist every one of my ancestors had to survive to sexual maturity. If you think about it my family tree, and yours, runs all the way back to the first single celled creature. If it didn’t we couldn’t exist.
The mathematical probability of existing is so astronomical that it is incredulous, though we plainly do exist. Evolution works by a specific mutation increasing the likelihood of surviving to adulthood. This mutated gene is then passed on to offspring.
Man evolved a large brain because each mutation in brain size helped increase his odds of survival, What he ate was important because malnutrition effects the brain growth. In order to sustain a large working brain you need a high energy food source. The only practical way for mankind to maintain a large brain ‘mutation’ was to eat meat to attain adulthood and thus pass on his mutation.
Chimpanzees survive because they eat meat, insects, etc. They are in effect viable, but prototype humans (this is not meant in a derogatory way). Who knows if our specific genetic line is wiped out from eating Big Macs and food additives, maybe they will evolve into a better race.
The ratio of brain weight to body weight for fish is 1:5000; for reptiles it is about 1:1500; for birds, 1:220; for most mammals, 1:180, and for humans, 1:50.
Roughly 2% of our body weight is our brain. That's a serious overhead for a herbivore.

 

[Tadpole]

Evolution is a process of survival after mutation.
Hang on ‘cus this is going to get deep. It’s magical that I am alive. In order for me to exist every one of my ancestors had to survive to sexual maturity. If you think about it my family tree, and yours, runs all the way back to the first single celled creature. If it didn’t we couldn’t exist.
The mathematical probability of existing is so astronomical that it is incredulous, though we plainly do exist. Evolution works by a specific mutation increasing the likelihood of surviving to adulthood. This mutated gene is then passed on to offspring.
Man evolved a large brain because each mutation in brain size helped increase his odds of survival, What he ate was important because malnutrition effects the brain growth. In order to sustain a large working brain you need a high energy food source. The only practical way for mankind to maintain a large brain ‘mutation’ was to eat meat to attain adulthood and thus pass on his mutation.
Chimpanzees survive because they eat meat, insects, etc. They are in effect viable, but prototype humans (this is not meant in a derogatory way). Who knows if our specific genetic line is wiped out from eating Big Macs and food additives, maybe they will evolve into a better race.
The ratio of brain weight to body weight for fish is 1:5000; for reptiles it is about 1:1500; for birds, 1:220; for most mammals, 1:180, and for humans, 1:50.
Roughly 2% of our body weight is our brain. That's a serious overhead for a herbivore.

Chimpanzees are not prototype humans, they are a different branch of the tree, they split off millions of years ago, they eat more than insect and bugs they eat monkeys, and each other or some of them do.
Nothing magical about each and everyone of us, just random chance, some one has to win the loto, and nearly every week some one does. Humankind have had longer and played more times that is all The human brains is getting smaller, are we de-evolving?
Neanderthal has a bigger brain than us, and was fitter stronger taller more able, more prolific. we managed to wipe him out. :AR15firin
Shellsuit man is breeding faster than we are, we'll be over run and consigned to a footnote of history with in a few generations.
If it was as simple as we think, we'd be too simple to think.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

Most of the brain is water, 77%, hence the weight.

Nick

 

[robwolf]

well i didnt know that thanks tadpole

 

[robwolf]

well i didnt know thwt thanks tadpole

 

[Tengu]

Bimble, woodlice are no good; have you ever tried peeling one?

 

[gregorach]

if meat eating was linked to evolving, why has the chimp not evolved?

if buying a lottery ticket is linked to winning the lottery, why has my Gran never won the lottery?

Satisfying one precondition for a given outcome does not guarantee that outcome. You have to buy a lottery ticket to win, but it certainly doesn't guarantee it.