Veganism, Vegeterianism, Omnivorism

[Fadcode]

1. Apples
Pesticides cling to apple skin, and can be absorbed into the flesh beneath. Wash fruit thoroughly, and peel before eating.

2. Celery
An average of 64 difficult-to-wash-away chemicals can be found on any given bunch of celery, and considering that celery is basically a water-uptake plant that draws liquids (and toxins) from the soil, do you really want to think about what might be running through your veins after you’ve eaten a stalk or two?

3. Sweet bell peppers
Insects love these sweet, crunchy vegetables, and if you don’t buy organic, you are consuming all kinds of harmful pesticides with every bite.

4. Peaches
If you love peaches, go for canned instead of fresh. These luscious globes are right behind celery as far as toxin levels go.

5. Strawberries
Strawberries are the most chemical-intensive crop in California, and those grown in South America may be laden with even more, as restrictions aren’t as severe in developing countries. Some organic growers apparently joke that conventionally grown strawberries can be ground up and used as pesticides themselves, since they’re so contaminated.

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6. Nectarines
These peachy cousins are just as coated with chemicals, and have even thinner skins to absorb them through.

7. Grapes
A single grape may test positive for 15 different chemicals. How many would be consumed by eating a handful of them?

8. Spinach
Spinach is so prone to insect nibblings that conventional farmers have to douse it in (carcinogenic!) chemicals just to keep the bugs off. Guess what gets absorbed into each and every leaf?

9. Lettuce
Non-organic lettuce and kale are contaminated with more chemicals than you really want to think about. If you can’t grow your own, please buy organic instead.

10. Pears
Like apples, these fruits are sprayed constantly to get rid of mites, aphids, moth eggs, and countless other critters.

11. Raspberries and Blueberries
Insects absolutely love these berries, and the fruits are so delicate that they can fall apart right on the bush. Naturally, they’re soaked in fertilizers for growth and stability, and an absolute cocktail of pesticides to keep the insects from nibbling them.

12. Potatoes
First, potato “eye” seeds are doused in pesticides to keep insects from eating the sprouts. Then, they’re sprayed with herbicides so no other plants grow near them. They’re basically exposed to chemicals every week for their entire growing season, resulting in chemical accumulation to the core of every tuber.

If you’re fond of eating these fruits and veggies, it’s far better for you to choose organic options, or try to grow your own organic/heirloom varieties in your garden, if possible.

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It would seem that foods that have thick outer rinds can stand up to contamination better than those above, and the cleanest choices you can make include onions, avocado, pineapple, cabbage, melons, eggplant, squashes, sweet potatoes, and non-GMO corn.

Naturally Toxic
There are also several foods that contain high levels of toxins on their own, long before they’re doused in poisonous chemicals. Although some of them lose their initial toxicity during the cooking process, they may still have properties that can be harmful to both people and pets. Let’s take a look at them, shall we?

13. Chocolate
Most people will never have a bad reaction to the theobromine found in chocolate, thank goodness for us choco-fiends, but those with compromised immune systems may find themselves getting quite ill after eating it. That said, chocolate can be fatal to dogs and cats, so don’t share your favorite candy bar with any of your furred friends.

14. Beans
Most legumes (beans and lentils) contain a chemical called phytohaemagglutinin, though it’s most concentrated in red and white kidney beans, followed by fava beans. Lima beans also contain a toxin known as limarin, which can only be neutralized if the beans are cooked thoroughly for about 15 minutes. The same goes for the kidney and other beans mentioned above: they MUST be boiled for at least 10 minutes before any other cooking procedure, including slow-cooking.

Failure to rid these legumes of their toxins can result in severe gastro-intestinal distress, and can even be fatal at higher doses. Never let pets eat raw beans, as they can be fatal nearly instantly, especially to pet birds. (Canned beans are fine.)

Advertising
15. Green Potatoes
If you go for organic potatoes, they’re absolutely fine for you‒until they start to go green. When spuds start to go green (yay chlorophyll!) it’s a warning that solanine is now present in the tubers, and eating them will make you seriously ill.

16. Rhubarb
Although the stalks lend a lovely tartness to pies and preserves, be sure that you don’t eat ANY part of the leaves‒the convulsions and death really aren’t worth a nibble or two.

17. Mushrooms
The mushies that you find at the supermarket will be harmless to anyone except those with an allergy to fungi, but some people are fond of foraging for wild mushrooms in forests and such. Most mushroom-related deaths occur when people eat the death cap (Amanita phalloides) or destroying angel (Amanita bisporigera) mushrooms by accident. If you’re not an absolute expert when it comes to wild mushroom identification, err on the side of caution and don’t put anything in your mouth.

 

[Fadcode]

I am not decrying veganism, I am just saying that you have to look at both sides, and make your mind up yourself, there is plenty of info and warnings about eating meat, and eating plantlife, you will kill any debate by quoting facts without the proof, if all the athletes in the world , and footballers, sportsmaen, etc were vegan, then I would concede the point that being a vegan is a better lifestyle choice,, but they are not, we are a diverse race, and the longer it stays like that the better.

 

[Prophecy]

1. Apples
Pesticides cling to apple skin, and can be absorbed into the flesh beneath. Wash fruit thoroughly, and peel before eating.

2. Celery
An average of 64 difficult-to-wash-away chemicals can be found on any given bunch of celery, and considering that celery is basically a water-uptake plant that draws liquids (and toxins) from the soil, do you really want to think about what might be running through your veins after you’ve eaten a stalk or two?

3. Sweet bell peppers
Insects love these sweet, crunchy vegetables, and if you don’t buy organic, you are consuming all kinds of harmful pesticides with every bite.

4. Peaches
If you love peaches, go for canned instead of fresh. These luscious globes are right behind celery as far as toxin levels go.

5. Strawberries
Strawberries are the most chemical-intensive crop in California, and those grown in South America may be laden with even more, as restrictions aren’t as severe in developing countries. Some organic growers apparently joke that conventionally grown strawberries can be ground up and used as pesticides themselves, since they’re so contaminated.

Advertising
6. Nectarines
These peachy cousins are just as coated with chemicals, and have even thinner skins to absorb them through.

7. Grapes
A single grape may test positive for 15 different chemicals. How many would be consumed by eating a handful of them?

8. Spinach
Spinach is so prone to insect nibblings that conventional farmers have to douse it in (carcinogenic!) chemicals just to keep the bugs off. Guess what gets absorbed into each and every leaf?

9. Lettuce
Non-organic lettuce and kale are contaminated with more chemicals than you really want to think about. If you can’t grow your own, please buy organic instead.

10. Pears
Like apples, these fruits are sprayed constantly to get rid of mites, aphids, moth eggs, and countless other critters.

11. Raspberries and Blueberries
Insects absolutely love these berries, and the fruits are so delicate that they can fall apart right on the bush. Naturally, they’re soaked in fertilizers for growth and stability, and an absolute cocktail of pesticides to keep the insects from nibbling them.

12. Potatoes
First, potato “eye” seeds are doused in pesticides to keep insects from eating the sprouts. Then, they’re sprayed with herbicides so no other plants grow near them. They’re basically exposed to chemicals every week for their entire growing season, resulting in chemical accumulation to the core of every tuber.

If you’re fond of eating these fruits and veggies, it’s far better for you to choose organic options, or try to grow your own organic/heirloom varieties in your garden, if possible.

Advertising
It would seem that foods that have thick outer rinds can stand up to contamination better than those above, and the cleanest choices you can make include onions, avocado, pineapple, cabbage, melons, eggplant, squashes, sweet potatoes, and non-GMO corn.

Naturally Toxic
There are also several foods that contain high levels of toxins on their own, long before they’re doused in poisonous chemicals. Although some of them lose their initial toxicity during the cooking process, they may still have properties that can be harmful to both people and pets. Let’s take a look at them, shall we?

13. Chocolate
Most people will never have a bad reaction to the theobromine found in chocolate, thank goodness for us choco-fiends, but those with compromised immune systems may find themselves getting quite ill after eating it. That said, chocolate can be fatal to dogs and cats, so don’t share your favorite candy bar with any of your furred friends.

14. Beans
Most legumes (beans and lentils) contain a chemical called phytohaemagglutinin, though it’s most concentrated in red and white kidney beans, followed by fava beans. Lima beans also contain a toxin known as limarin, which can only be neutralized if the beans are cooked thoroughly for about 15 minutes. The same goes for the kidney and other beans mentioned above: they MUST be boiled for at least 10 minutes before any other cooking procedure, including slow-cooking.

Failure to rid these legumes of their toxins can result in severe gastro-intestinal distress, and can even be fatal at higher doses. Never let pets eat raw beans, as they can be fatal nearly instantly, especially to pet birds. (Canned beans are fine.)

Advertising
15. Green Potatoes
If you go for organic potatoes, they’re absolutely fine for you‒until they start to go green. When spuds start to go green (yay chlorophyll!) it’s a warning that solanine is now present in the tubers, and eating them will make you seriously ill.

16. Rhubarb
Although the stalks lend a lovely tartness to pies and preserves, be sure that you don’t eat ANY part of the leaves‒the convulsions and death really aren’t worth a nibble or two.

17. Mushrooms
The mushies that you find at the supermarket will be harmless to anyone except those with an allergy to fungi, but some people are fond of foraging for wild mushrooms in forests and such. Most mushroom-related deaths occur when people eat the death cap (Amanita phalloides) or destroying angel (Amanita bisporigera) mushrooms by accident. If you’re not an absolute expert when it comes to wild mushroom identification, err on the side of caution and don’t put anything in your mouth.

So you can Google! Now find a study that says plants can feel pain!

I've heard of people getting gravely ill from beans.

 

[Prophecy]

I am not decrying veganism, I am just saying that you have to look at both sides, and make your mind up yourself, there is plenty of info and warnings about eating meat, and eating plantlife, you will kill any debate by quoting facts without the proof, if all the athletes in the world , and footballers, sportsmaen, etc were vegan, then I would concede the point that being a vegan is a better lifestyle choice,, but they are not, we are a diverse race, and the longer it stays like that the better.

You're completely right, I'm sorry I didn't quite understand you the first time. It's late here and I've been replying to you lot for 2 days

There are a few athletes and strong men out there who are vegan.

You say statements without backing them up will kill a debate... mate you must be skimming this thread because anything I've claimed I've backed up with science, but I feel like it's gone ignored.

Some people just don't want to go vegan because they like the taste of meat, or they think it would be inconvenient to them, or they don't want to make a big change. I think that's the biggest reason. Habits die hard. I would have more respect if meat-eaters just said that they don't really care either way.

We have two choices. To be kind to animals, or to kill them. And we can't do both.

 

[Fadcode]

If you read my post correctly i did point out i was joking about this, i dont know if plants feel pain, I dont know if all the animals feel pain, i see deer bash each other during the rut, I have never seen them go the shop for headache tablets, (a little bit of levity there), I have got no interest in reading about plants, or vegans, I am quite happy being a omnivore, I am sure I could find one crazy scientist who has a theory that plants feel pain, what would it prove nothing, I am sure there are scientists who think animals dont feel pain, academia is not always a true science, I read in the newspaper today a bunch of scientists have said pollution is going up, because people have stopped buying diesel cars, a couple of weeks ago they were saying it was diesel cars that was causing pollution.
If one of your arguments to turn vegan, was that one of the causes of climate change was the methane from cattle, and sheep, then to me that would make a bit more sense, but then you would have to kill all the cattle and sheep...................mmmm..........another dilemna

 

[Fadcode]

We have two choices. To be kind to animals, or to kill them. And we can't do both.

My daughter a couple of weeks ago had to have her dog a shar pei,put down, it couldnt walk, had lost control of its bowels etc, she would carry it out into the garden, and it had to be done every 3-4 hoursduring the night,, she held on as long as she could, because she didn't want to face the inevatable fact that the dog had come to the end of its life, the dog was 15 years old, she had saved it from being destroyed by a charitywhen it was a pup, she loved that dog, and it broke her heart what she had to do, she had the dog buried, had a headstone etc, now are you saying because she had that dog put down(killed), she wasn;t being kind to it? Of course you can be kind and kill animals, you can show compassion.

 

[Prophecy]

If you read my post correctly i did point out i was joking about this, i dont know if plants feel pain, I dont know if all the animals feel pain, i see deer bash each other during the rut, I have never seen them go the shop for headache tablets, (a little bit of levity there), I have got no interest in reading about plants, or vegans, I am quite happy being a omnivore, I am sure I could find one crazy scientist who has a theory that plants feel pain, what would it prove nothing, I am sure there are scientists who think animals dont feel pain, academia is not always a true science, I read in the newspaper today a bunch of scientists have said pollution is going up, because people have stopped buying diesel cars, a couple of weeks ago they were saying it was diesel cars that was causing pollution.
If one of your arguments to turn vegan, was that one of the causes of climate change was the methane from cattle, and sheep, then to me that would make a bit more sense, but then you would have to kill all the cattle and sheep...................mmmm..........another dilemna

It is actually a leading argument for veganism, that animal agricultural is a cause of the recent sharp change of the earth's climate.

Here's a quote from skeptical science:

The burning of fossil fuels for energy and animal agriculture are two of the biggest contributors to global warming, along with deforestation. Globally, fossil fuel-based energy is responsible for about 60% of human greenhouse gas emissions, with deforestation at about 18%, and animal agriculture between 14% and 18% (estimates from the World Resources Institute, UN Food and Agriculture Organization, and Pitesky et al. 2009).

https://www.skepticalscience.com/how-much-meat-contribute-to-gw.html

Yes you're right of course - science isn't set in stone. If it was it wouldn't be science. Science is the best possible explanation at the time with the resources available at the time, and always subject to change in the future.

We wouldn't have to kill all animals for any reason, but merely let them die out and stop breeding more.

EDIT: a word

 

[Prophecy]

We have two choices. To be kind to animals, or to kill them. And we can't do both.

My daughter a couple of weeks ago had to have her dog a shar pei,put down, it couldnt walk, had lost control of its bowels etc, she would carry it out into the garden, and it had to be done every 3-4 hoursduring the night,, she held on as long as she could, because she didn't want to face the inevatable fact that the dog had come to the end of its life, the dog was 15 years old, she had saved it from being destroyed by a charitywhen it was a pup, she loved that dog, and it broke her heart what she had to do, she had the dog buried, had a headstone etc, now are you saying because she had that dog put down(killed), she wasn;t being kind to it? Of course you can be kind and kill animals, you can show compassion.

Yes of course that was the kind thing to do. I've had to do the same to my dogs in the past. It's heartbreaking.

That wasn't the comparison I was making.

Forcing an animal into a one-way tunnel to its slaugher, firing a bolt into its head and then hanging it upside down before slitting its throat isn't being kind. Neither is gassing them to death or whatever other method you use. Even if you sneaked up behind it and killed it without it knowing or feeling a thing, you're still killing it. You're not putting it out of its misery in the same way your daughter did with her pet because the animal only got to live out a quarter of its natural life expectancy, and you killed it when you didn't actually need to.

 

[Prophecy]

Santaman2000, obviously I agree, as would anyone, that letting cows roam on pasture is a 'better' solution.

But from what I've read, up to 99% of farm animals in the US come from intensive factory mega farms. These farms are now all over the world.

6 months ago, The Guardian reported that we had 800 of these in the UK. Isn't that funny, because I would have never known of their presence unless I read that. Like slaughter houses, they try to keep them out of sight, so that consumers don't make that connection between sentient beings and food on their plate.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...00-livestock-mega-farms-investigation-reveals

A number that I'm sure has grown by now and continues to do so.

If pasture raised animals are a minority, then there's not much weight to your argument about land use.

Plus, we have to farm mono-cultures no matter what, so we have to be realistic and bite the bullet. Mono-cultures do host a variety of wildlife, but just aren't as biodiverse.

Did you read the land use study I linked earlier? What do you think about it?

 

[Janne]

As I said before, the modern, unnatural, intensive animal husbandry is because of the demand for ultra cheap meat.
How much is a cheap chicken in a UK supermarket? UKP3 or something?

Hand on heart, how many of us on this forum would be happy to pay UKP 30 (figure grabbed from thin air) for a chicken grown on a farm, field. Same for beef, pork.

It is the consumer that forces these horrible intensive factories.

Going Vegan is not a solution for us that like meat and animal products. BTW, eating meat is NOT bad for us, it is good for us. .Nature intended us to eat meat. That is why we have enzyme systems geared to digest meat.
Eating meat in huge quantities, plus processed meat, is bad for us.

 

[Prophecy]

Going Vegan is not a solution for us that like meat and animal products. BTW, eating meat is NOT bad for us, it is good for us. .Nature intended us to eat meat. That is why we have enzyme systems geared to digest meat.
Eating meat in huge quantities, plus processed meat, is bad for us.

If nature 'intended' you to eat meat, you'd have big sharp claws, huge incisors, you'd be able to run super fast, you'd salivate at the sight of a bunny or the inside of a slaughter house etc etc. Put an apple and a rabbit in a baby's cot and see which one he'll eat.

The largest study ever carried out on nutrition has proven that meat is not good for is and that diet optimal for human health is zero animal products. In order to make a statement like 'meat is good for us' you'd have to forget about all those links to cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc, and you'd actually need to debunk the studies. Without any of that such a claim is quite frankly ridiculous.

 

[Janne]

Weird that humanity including our closest ancestors for millions of years without adverse effects/

It is eating vast quantities of chemically tainted meat that is bad for us.
Our canines are pretty strong, perfect for using to rip off chunks of meat.
Our premolars are perfect to crush the meat, the muscle strength and small oclusal surface make them ideal.
The molars are perfect to crush vegetabilia, and fine crush the raw meat.
Front teeth? Perfect to hold meat and veg. No good for chewing.

 

[Robson Valley]

Open your mouth and look into it with a mirror. By your dentition, humans are NOT carnivores, we are omnivores.
Disembowel yourself and you will discover that the same is true for your digestive tract.
It is NOT the digestive tract of a carnivore at all.

What do we have? The extraordinary versatility to consume all sorts of nutrient foods.
Many days, I include meat in my meals. Many days, I don't. I'm an omnivore =
I can get away with that sort of nutritional diversity and thrive on it.
In fact, human biochemistry requires the diversity.

 

[Prophecy]

Yeh basically you have to be careful with your question. Are we carnivores? What does that mean? Does it mean what do we do? What period? Does it mean what are we best at doing? Does it mean what our anatomy is capable of doing? Or what's optimal for our health?

How do we know that our ancestors didn't have health problems due to meat consumption?

 

[Janne]

Robson V, that is exactly what I said. canines and premolars suited for meat, molars for vegetabilia.
Front to hold both.

Enzyme systems for both. Intestines for both. Gallbladder well developed to take large amounts of fat. Good for animal fat.

We know well the health of our ancestors going back at least 150 years, but what is maybe more interesting is to do two watersheds, one where chemicals were started to be used in the intensive agriculture and husbandry, and one where eating huge amounts of meat became the norm.

We can also look into the food habits and health of more "primitive" people.

Health and diseases is an incredibly difficult subject.
Diseases and cancers vary according to cultures. Food customs vary too. Not easy to draw conclusions between food and health.

Remember: Old days before refrigeration: Not much fresh fruit and veg, little lean meat. Animal fats in abundance. Lots of root veg, cereals, pulses, preserved fruit and veg ( fermented, salted, dried, sugar preserved) . Healthy eating?

 

[Robson Valley]

The terminology is best applied as a means of positioning organisms in an ecological food web.
Now, broaden that to include all the other characteristics useful in that particular niche.

Carnivores have anatomical features which are unlike those of comparison in both the omnivores and the herbivores.
Go so far as to compare the position of the eyes in the skull.
Teeth. Carnivores don't share carnassial teeth.
The carnivore digestive tract is far shorter than the others, by contrast,
a rabbit seems to have miles of it (and they practice coprophagy unlike carnivores).

 

[Prophecy]

The terminology is best applied as a means of positioning organisms in an ecological food web.
Now, broaden that to include all the other characteristics useful in that particular niche.

Carnivores have anatomical features which are unlike those of comparison in both the omnivores and the herbivores.
Go so far as to compare the position of the eyes in the skull.
Teeth. Carnivores don't share carnassial teeth.
The carnivore digestive tract is far shorter than the others, by contrast,
a rabbit seems to have miles of it (and they practice coprophagy unlike carnivores).

I don't know - that's one of my dog's favorite hobbies!

 

[mousey]

Humans may not be able to run mega fast but we can keep going for a long, long time. Isn't that how we used to hunt / kill larger animals, basically run them to death, I believe there are some tribes of people that still do this.

Chimpanzee's, with whom we share 99% of our DNA with, are meat eaters, are we so different from them?

 

[Prophecy]

Robson V, that is exactly what I said. canines and premolars suited for meat, molars for vegetabilia.
Front to hold both.

Enzyme systems for both. Intestines for both. Gallbladder well developed to take large amounts of fat. Good for animal fat.

We know well the health of our ancestors going back at least 150 years, but what is maybe more interesting is to do two watersheds, one where chemicals were started to be used in the intensive agriculture and husbandry, and one where eating huge amounts of meat became the norm.

We can also look into the food habits and health of more "primitive" people.

Health and diseases is an incredibly difficult subject.
Diseases and cancers vary according to cultures. Food customs vary too. Not easy to draw conclusions between food and health.

Remember: Old days before refrigeration: Not much fresh fruit and veg, little lean meat. Animal fats in abundance. Lots of root veg, cereals, pulses, preserved fruit and veg ( fermented, salted, dried, sugar preserved) . Healthy eating?

For the 10th time, yes, a study between food and health and disease exists. I have posted the link and referred to it both in this thread and the old one. But that won't stop you or anyone else ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist. It's almost like you don't want to look at any evidence or studies. Why? Because it would contradict your personal beliefs and values. Humans find it incredibly difficult to accept new information which conflicts with current ideas which have been there for a long time. It's called cognitive dissonance. Have a look.

 

[Prophecy]

Humans may not be able to run mega fast but we can keep going for a long, long time. Isn't that how we used to hunt / kill larger animals, basically run them to death, I believe there are some tribes of people that still do this.

Chimpanzee's, with whom we share 99% of our DNA with, are meat eaters, are we so different from them?

There are mate yes, and they still do. I listened to a podcast about them recently and it was fascinating. They tire them out in a relay team basically and then kill them with spears with they can no longer continue.

Chimps eat insects and meat as about 1% or 2% of their diet... What do chimps have to do with it?