Ultimate vehicle for your ultimate adventure?

[demographic]

Generally can't stand almost all 4 wheel drive vehicles, often too little space and really just how often do I need 4 wheel drive?

I generally prefer vans (Far more space inside) so I guess that would be a 4 wheel drive Merc Srinter van. Realistically I'm not even that fussed about 4WD so a more reliable van would be better. Maybe just stick with the Toyota van I already have.

Or one of these.

Most of the places I want to go I can drive close enough to, then walk the rest of the way, I'd rather be stabbed in the eye with a thistle than own a Landrover, we had them on the farm when I was a kid and the Factory Rust Chassis standard option just isn't good enough for the cost. Plus they take up a fair bit of space and don't have much internal space.

I do know that in terms of space per pound cost that Porshe 917 doesn't have must internal volume (although the 5 or so litre aircooled flat 12 does have a few CCs) and I'm never going to find enough cash down the back of the sofa to buy one.
But you did say Ultimate Vehicle and hell, I just like the noise they make, plus its not a Landy (spit).

I do have to admit that after all this Landy bashing, I did have to be towed by one in a snowy street in Kendal this year by a kind tree surgeon chap, I did give him a fiver for being such a sport though.

 

[Janne]

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bestcarmag.com/sites/default/files/ferrari-575m-maranello-1324543-9800196.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bestcarmag.com/makes/Ferrari/575M-Maranello&docid=wYcjIXCJfyPsDM&tbnid=JwX3ihSkpy5iBM:&vet=10ahUKEwit-eXChYHbAhWLm1kKHaGiBJwQMwhyKA0wDQ..i&w=901&h=601&hl=en-us&client=safari&bih=643&biw=704&q=575m maranello&ved=0ahUKEwit-eXChYHbAhWLm1kKHaGiBJwQMwhyKA0wDQ&iact=mrc&uact=8


More useful than the Porsche. Has a decent booth and space behind the seats.
Plus a bigger engine, not a Boxer but a V!

Defender chassis are a joke, they start rusting before they left the factory.

 

[ammo]

I love Land Rovers. Had a few Discoveries, and a dog of a Defender.
Done thousands of miles, in the Middle East and India, in both Land cruiser and Land Rover.
The double cab looks better, but is less practical. In a van back/station wagon, you can store more kit, don't have to get out and get wet to get at it. You can sleep in the back.
The Toyota knock the socks of them to be fair. Performance is pretty even, though the comfort level, is on another planet.
My current love is a 1994 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 4.2td

 

[Broch]

Defender chassis are a joke, they start rusting before they left the factory.

1983 SIII - no rust
2009 Defender - no rust

I just don't get the point of statements continuously thrown out like that - have you ever actually bought a brand new Land Rover to be able to objectively come to that conclusion?

I've seen rusty Pinzgauers, G-Wagons, Toyotas etc. etc. I wouldn't dream of assuming they are all like that though!

 

[Janne]

To be honest - yes I have.
3 new ones. The last one I ordered while living in UK wasin 2005, ordered through the Special Vehicles operation. Modified.
I did some 'nerd - bling bling' additions, like replacing the front bumper. Chassis legs in front started rusting. The rear crossmember ( the visible horizontal part you attach steps to) was also rusty,tiny rust specks.areas.

The dealer dealt with it.
My last new one, made in December 2015, I ordered here.
Shipped in a container. Rust specks on front of chassis, where the front bumper is attached.
(not mentioning leaking AC and the fact that LR forgot to fit a couple of accessories I ordered)

First new one was a 300tdi. Was excellent from factory, but started rusting within the first year.

G-wagen?

I never had a civilian, but own now two ex German Army I bought last year.1991

Rus on themt? The one I am modifying had three areas on the body rusty, both rear suspension top attachments rusty.
Rest of chassis - zero rust.
Second G-wagen has 5 places on body rusty, including one sill. Crash damage that later rusted.
Body - do not know, have not lifted off the body yet. Visually one rear suspension top turret rusted

I have also owned a few used Defenders, from an early ex MOD 90 to a couple of modified custom builts.
The latest one, built by a reputable 'defender builder' in UK for my son, a 20 year old one, needed a new chassis.
So yes, in my experience they rust. And have an appauling design and built quality.

But, I still love them!

In case you wonder, yes, I own a multitude of cars. I love cars.

 

[Stew1803]

Mine is my 1992 defender 90, 200 tdi. It has a Galvanised chassis and is very solid. (my daily workhorse)

I recently sound deadened it which has made very enjoyable to drive. I drove from Aberdeen to Ireland and back on £70 worth of diesel. It does everything I need it to and more, and if maintained will last a lifetime. Has a snorkel, Cooper STT pro tyres, farm jack, sand ladders, roof rack. etc.

Also have a 80 series Land cruiser amazon that has been rebuilt from the ground up with all the fancy bits (purpose was for Africa safari). this is a fantastic vehicle, more suited to longer drives than the landy for sure, but isn't as versatile. Probably a better vehicle for 90% of people though.

Other than that, the Unimog we have works wonders but is not practical for anything but logging or farm work in reality.

 

[Nice65]

1983 SIII - no rust
2009 Defender - no rust

I just don't get the point of statements continuously thrown out like that - have you ever actually bought a brand new Land Rover to be able to objectively come to that conclusion?

I've seen rusty Pinzgauers, G-Wagons, Toyotas etc. etc. I wouldn't dream of assuming they are all like that though!

They do have an inescapable history of unreliability though.

Having just inherited a third dog and bought a large coolbox, we found ourselves unable to pack enough for a long weekend camping, even with roof bars for the tent. Three door RAV4 is just too small. I soon bypassed the Landrovers, despite my love for them.

So I’m currently looking at SUVs. God, they’re boring, all of them, boring. Choices so far are Grand Cherokee or Landcruiser. Both have off road capabilities I’ll never use fully, but for some reason I feel the need. Even the Rav has Grabbers on it, it’s a joy in the mud and snow.

 

[Janne]

In I bidder ( I-bidder.com)
there are 25 ex MOD Defenders up for auction just now ( started).
Some gems there!
(rusty chassis included! )

 

[Stew1803]

They sure do have a bad rep for being unreliable.

They also have a reputation of being the first vehicle to trail blaze a large portion of the world, and have been in every continent and terrain imaginable, and have done so reliably. I think its down to the owners a lot of the time, lack of maintenance and care = brake down or rust. Just my view, I know of a few series landys that have been put through death but have been maintained and washed and painted and are still outrunning the new vehicles.

Don't get me wrong, there is plenty wrong with a landy and by no means do I think it the best vehicle, but for an expedition you have three basic choices, Land rover, Land cruiser or Mercedes. (Generally speaking that is)

 

[Broch]

They do have an inescapable history of unreliability though.

I suppose I am only prepared to quote my own experience:

94 300Tdi - between 96,000 miles and 160,000 miles, seized gearbox after the workshop dropped the gearbox and cracked it when fitting a new clutch (didn't tell me, lost all it's oil), new half shafts and wheel bearings - plus usual service items.
2009 TDCi - 110,000 miles, new clutch slave cylinder.

I don't believe that is bad reliability but maybe I've been lucky.

 

[Janne]

The mechanical problems I have had with the new Defenders only happened when they were new, within a month or two.
Once fixed - never any problems.

which problems? Noisy wheel bearing once ( TD5). Clutch twice (TD5 and 2.2 Tdi) . Diff once (TD5) Hard to change gears (adjustment of some sort) (300tdi)


Not mechanical, more a shoddy built:
Doors difficult to close ( TD5 and 2.2 Tdi) Rattle of door widows ( 2.2 tdi) . Water leaks behind dashboard ( TD5 and 2.2 tdi).
AC leaking ( 2.2tdi)

TD5 had a crap paint job, but could be polished out. Was a special order paint.

All Defenders, once sorted, perfect.

The only car with more issues generally was my Alfa Spider S5. I think the guys making that one mixed something illegal in their quadruple breakfast Espressos.

 

[Nice65]

I suppose I am only prepared to quote my own experience:

94 300Tdi - between 96,000 miles and 160,000 miles, seized gearbox after the workshop dropped the gearbox and cracked it when fitting a new clutch (didn't tell me, lost all it's oil), new half shafts and wheel bearings - plus usual service items.
2009 TDCi - 110,000 miles, new clutch slave cylinder.

I don't believe that is bad reliability but maybe I've been lucky.

I think this applies to many vehicles, there are some golden ones and some duffers. However, given the choice of Toyota or Landrover for reliability, it’s got to be Toyota.

Anyone know much about Jeep Grande Cherokee reliability? I’d be looking at second hand. I’ve read some things about electrical problems, but the V6 2.8ltr diesel seems a sound engine. Most of my driving is on road, so the trim level and road manners of the Jeep seem better than the agricultural Land Cruiser.

 

[Janne]

Which year? I do not recall a 2.8 l TD? 3.0 l TD yes. Mercedes engine.

A friend had a third gen diesel Grand Cherokee in UK. 2005 or 2006.

It was the first time I puked in a car (backseat) since I was a child.
Horrible body roll.
His wife had it for years, no problems.

 

[Broch]

Anyone know much about Jeep Grande Cherokee reliability? I’d be looking at second hand. I’ve read some things about electrical problems, but the V6 2.8ltr diesel seems a sound engine. Most of my driving is on road, so the trim level and road manners of the Jeep seem better than the agricultural Land Cruiser.

It may not bother you but I read recently that the Jeep V6 diesel had 14 times the NOx output of any other 4x4.

 

[Janne]

Diesel engines were Mercedes engines. Last gen I think Fiat? VW? Something European.
The Americans can not design a good quality small displacement Diesel for some reason.

The Mercedes ML and the Cherokees were/are cousin cars.

I do not believe the NOx was that bad.

The emissions of a car depends for which market they are built. Europe gets differently tweaked engines than Brazil.

We have lots of Grand Cherokees here. And MLs. Old and new. The old ones are old because they still run and work = decent quality. Seems to age in a similar way.
Our environment is a car killer. Salt, humid air. Lots and lots of very powerful son.

 

[Nice65]

It may not bother you but I read recently that the Jeep V6 diesel had 14 times the NOx output of any other 4x4.

That does bother me. Not as much as heavy particulate or CO2 output, but there’s no reason their engine should be producing 14x more N gases.

I’ll have to give it a google. Any links?

 

[Janne]

This?
https://qz.com/990211/jeep-grand-ch...eat-on-emissions-tests-similar-to-volkswagen/


Or this?
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...diesels-breach-pollution-limits-a6822066.html

The problem with the cheating is that the engines are more powerful and run better.

 

[Broch]

That does bother me. Not as much as heavy particulate or CO2 output, but there’s no reason their engine should be producing 14x more N gases.

I’ll have to give it a google. Any links?

Sorry, my bad, that's what comes of a senile mind trying to remember things instead of looking them up

It's 15 time the Euro 5 limit and the worse of all the cars tested not 14 times any others!!!!

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new...-car-emissions/cars-that-produce-the-most-nox

 

[Lou]

I would like an electric car - possibly a fiat 500 if they ever start making them.
I would like to go across Europe, stopping off to charge her up every 3 hours in a scenic spot.
Hopefully it will be much more than a tour of European IKEAS.

Failing that I would go on my (non-electric) Vespa.

 

[garethw]

This is mine... very happy with it.. Not many on the road here in France, but runs well is great off road, and I can get a carp fishing bedchair in the back.