Trekking Poles

[Paul_B]

60km? As every good American man knows they should be able to walk 50 miles every day according to a certain deceased president (TR). It's the origin of the Keswick to Barrow charity walk.

The idea being that every military man in USA should be able to March 50 miles in 20 hours on 3 consecutive days. Of course some us marines took that further and did 3 days of such matches in 20 hours straight. Having done it, or the reduced 40 mile version they got forced into because of traffic out of Keswick, 9 hours stiff walk over Lakeland hills. I've done 50 milers in about 16 hours. That's when I wasn't exactly a trained individual. You certainly learn to look after your feet doing those distances and greater.

 

[Erbswurst]

Yes, and that's surely the limit because you become tired after 16 hours anyway.
And otherwise after such a distance it's more likely to get problems with the skin on your feet. I become tired after 85 km and I think I never walked more in one day.

Nevertheless 100 km was still a trained distance in the Prussian army but meant for emergencies. It was even trained with light luggage in the Hitlerjugend. But only one day and not more in that case. Older boy groups also trained that during the night to sharpen the navigation skills.

(If you have modern carbon fibre walking stiks you surely can achieve much more, because you will be much faster, if it's right what I learned here.
And don't forget your antenna, the red plastic nose and your folding stainless steel hobo stove.
Good luck!)

 

[grizzlyj]

Another option is bread, cheese and salami or jam.

What do you use to light that?
Soak it all in meths or cover it in vaseline beforehand?
Any particular type of salami better suited to titanium pot use?

Apart from building up to it, what sort of things would be considered as training to do 50 miles on consecutive days for instance?

 

[TLM]

What do you use to light that?

as a guess I would say that the point is no fire needed for eating ...

Apart from building up to it, what sort of things would be considered as training to do 50 miles on consecutive days for instance?

We had a few scout badges like that, walking was considered the best exercise for walking. I did 50 clicks at about 12. Later while serving we did 60 clicks with 15-20 kg packs, I was lazy and walked, the top 10 ran. Walking long distances is not really that difficult with light weight packs and healthy joints.

 

[Minotaur]

8 minutes? I took 50 minutes and still no burn with a trangua once. Cold weather and borrowed stove. There's so many factors involved with burning fuel stoves that you simply cannot say a time to boil without clarifying the details. Air temperature, fuel temperature, starting water temperature are just a few things that can make your 8 minutes completely wrong.

I have never had that sort of issue. Will keep an eye out for that. It might be related to were I have brewed and maybe I have never gone outside the perfect window for the stove.

If you're interested there's catalytic stoves such as the very, very efficient MSR ones. They are the most fuel efficient gas stoves according to independent testing. Not sure if they'll burn the groundad much as naked flame stoves but they're a very good stove if you have the money free for its high price.

You can get very cheap gas stoves made by the same people to similar designs so have been thinking about the change.

 

[Minotaur]

I am not against blowing into the coals.
I just wouldn't use an antenna to do it.

Me either however using a straw works and I carry one so may as well use it. It tends to stop you getting a face full of ash.

I recently called a few French Camping grounds and asked about meth burners.
In dry and often windy areas they only allow gas, nothing else.

Yeah, it does seem to be becoming a thing due to drier temperatures.

The Roman army wasn't especially fast. The Prussian army also counted with 60 kilometres per day. And Roman legionaries did usually carry less than the Prussian soldiers. The Romans didn't schlep around their stuff, most of it was usually brought behind them in cars.
On the march they were very light armed.

60 Kilometres is 37 miles so 40 miles a day is faster. Also Roman were ready to fight with 3 days of kit so that got to be up there weight wise. It would be hard to work out what the carry would be like compared to a more modern soldier. Modern infantry carry a lot of weight. Compared to a modern hiker I bet the Roman Soldier has more weight.
Also something to keep in mind they did this day in day out for weeks and months plus every night they set up fortifications.
I am sure there are accounts of legions crossing distances at amazing speeds when you consider they were walking.

In flat country you can walk with a load of approximately 15 kg easily 6 km/hour. You just have to continue that for 10 hours and have your 60 km together. Usually you have to add 2 hours of intermissions. I did that with 14 years old boy scouts in the Easter holydays what means, they were sporty young men, but so early in the year not yet especially trained. And we also walked with complete luggage on a technical equipment level of WW2 65 or more kilometres in moderate hills, Alsace for example. If you are used to walk it isn't that much. Before the pandemia I walked nearly every day for 10 hours due to my job. Doesn't matter if +45 or -20°C or something in between. I don't carry so much luggage, but anyway. I am 51 now, no selected and professional young soldier.
It simply depends on if you are used to walk, that's all. Of course that's much for someone who spends most of his days at a writing desk and doesn't get regularly out for hiking. And we also want to stop and sit around from time to time of course if we do that as a recreational hobby. 25 or 30 kilometres are also long enough to see something. That's nowadays my usual hiking distance. But when we were young we were of course also interested to learn which distances are possible.

It is amazing what effects walking speed. My goal is to be doing 5 to 6 miles an hour on flat surfaces. We hit a bit of a dragon teeth moment recently and it dropped us below 2 miles an hour. It was muddy and up and down hill constantly. It one of the reasons I am going to start using poles, my knees were gone after that. We did a walk of 4 miles more and I was fine a month later however it was a lot of time on the canal towpath so almost perfect conditions.

It's nothing special about that. Others go by bike all the day or spend the time on a soccer field. Teenagers simply run around.

It really hard to compare endurance feats. Take a marathon is the cycling version 100 miles or 300 miles? I think you have to add a time or terrain component for the level of effort to be the same.
Also no one is really looking at hiking in that way at all so it hard to find good practical evidence for what works. If you want to cycle long distances I can tell you how to do, what to use and how to eat and drink with a lot of science to back up my advice.

 

[Broch]

I did the Lyke Wake Walk (40 miles) when I was 16 in 16.25 hours (the same day I had played a game of rugby!); many people have done it a lot lot faster. The top of Fylindales Moor in a thunderstorm is not fun though

 

[Erbswurst]

Of course the Roman army didn't do all and everything identically everywhere and during all centuries.
Should legionaries have walked regularly 40 miles they surely didn't carry much more than leather armour and the short sword on the man and everything else was on the horse cart.

The first attac of the Germanic cavallari in the Varus battle was so horribly successful because the way was too narrow. The legionaries had to fight with what they carried on the man and couldn't reach their equipment on the horse carts.
And that wasn't in the own Empire!

 

[Minotaur]

Of course the Roman army didn't do all and everything identically everywhere and during all centuries.
Should legionaries have walked regularly 40 miles they surely didn't carry much more than leather armour and the short sword on the man and everything else was on the horse cart.

Well for a start they went from leather to plate to chain mail armour however for all of it they carried 3 spears and a shield or at least they were supposed to. Plus 3 days stuff.

The first attac of the Germanic cavallari in the Varus battle was so horribly successful because the way was too narrow. The legionaries had to fight with what they carried on the man and couldn't reach their equipment on the horse carts.
And that wasn't in the own Empire!

That was not a group of highly trained roman legionaries. They were basically walking with the camp followers for a start.

 

[Paul_B]

What do you use to light that?
Soak it all in meths or cover it in vaseline beforehand?
Any particular type of salami better suited to titanium pot use?

Apart from building up to it, what sort of things would be considered as training to do 50 miles on consecutive days for instance?

I just walked and walked whenever I could. I was a member of a few lakelabd groups and developed many friends. Usually someone fitter than me to go out with to push me. Until I became the fitter one others tried to keep up with.

Then I got invited to do a short 24 miler. Didn't feel it so a year later I got asked if I wanted to form a team for the Keswick to Barrow charity walk.

That was founded by a US team, Royal navy team and vickers Barrow team I response to TR's 50 mile challenge. The three teams challenged each other to be the fastest overall team back when the US team were working on the British nuclear submarines being built back then. Later shortened to 40 miles because of a major traffic issue in and around Keswick caused by it.

I did it three times resulting in a best of sub 9 hours. Then lost interest. First time I messed my ball off my feet up badly. One threatened TY delaminate the skin or thick callous pad or flesh on the ball of the foot. I still did q good 20 miler group walk with friends the day after.

Then a friend had tried un successfully to do a certain 45 miler and was giving it one last attempt, third one, but wanted to do it with a friend. So I got asked. We thought we'd failed and missed the cutoff on last checkpoint but after 20 minutes sitting down got asked if we had given up. We did it in 16 hours. We'd taken a long cut at one point. Known for being longer but a lot quicker and not outside the rules. So that added a bit of mileage. Add to that we got lost at one point made it 50 miles or more.

Not nice by the end and I took a day to recover, two or three days to stop feeling stiff and achy. My partner took over a week. I still had to drive home from Aber on the Welsh coast the day after. That didn't help.

IMHO it's good to know you can do longer walks but tbh 10 to 25 miles is the sweet spot for me at the time. I did do a few longer events but usually only one that had 3 loops and you could pick how many you wanted to do over a weekend. All based on a hub base of Shap where the three loops all came out of. We did one or two and had fun. Full 3 loops was 100km of 67 miles I believe.

 

[Pupers]

Bit of very poor advice about the “uselessness” of Trekking Poles on this topic, quite ridiculous tbh.

I did the Kilimanjaro treck in 2014, I was very fit and had prepared by hiking, I live and worked on Dartmoor, gym work and Strength and conditioning with a former Royal and a Tri Athlete….They killed me if I am honest, but I felt great and well prepared.

I had never used Trekking Poles, never felt a need for them, after all, I never used them carrying the world on my back when I served as an NCO in a Reserve Infantry Battalion!

The “Kili” group got together for a pre meet, beer and kit discussion in Exeter a few months before our treck. The leader of our group was a recently retired Royal Marine Major, who was, to say the least, pretty clued up on the RM Arctic and Mountain Warfare Cadre training in Norway. The topic of trekking poles obviously came up, I had no intention of taking any tbh, only for wimps apparently!

The Major absolutely recommended using poles…..What! Does he know what he talking about! So anyway, I bought a pair of Leki’s, and got on the Moor after watching a couple of very informative You Tube videos. OMG, what a revelation! I even got an Osprey with the really handy pole carriers when not needed. I have used poles ever since, and could not recommend them highly enough.

Despite playing rugby for 29 years as a forward, my knees, hips and ankles are in pretty good nick, but still never go out without my poles.

So, with respect, please don’t take any notice of the negative comments about walking poles, they really are quite ridiculous, bordering foolish. The known benefits of walking poles is well documented.

The only thing I will say, is learn to use them properly. Once you have done that, you won’t go back.

 

[Herman30]

So, with respect, please don’t take any notice of the negative comments about walking poles, they really are quite ridiculous, bordering foolish.

My thoughts excactly.

 

[SaraR]

I think it might have been mentioned already, but for a tarp or tent that requires a pole, you can often get a walking pole- like pole to do the job instead. Many companies who do these types of tents offer these and they may be cheaper/lighter than a walking pole if you don't want one. Or if you don't like the idea of not being able to use the poles for walking while you're shelter is up.

 

[Paul_B]

They do good but I found I was only carrying them. I did a lot of walking and built up my foot strength through using fell shoes. I also improved my ability and balance. I was able to move through tough uk terrain with speed and balance. I found that carrying a pole in each hand meant that I rarely needed to put them down to the ground. They just got in the way so eventually they became dead weight in my hands. They became rucksack adornments only good for tarp based camps in the fells.

That's not the same as saying they are not good for what they are used for. Just that without needing the benefits they were not good for me. I last used a pair when carrying my son in a child carrier on my back. By that time I had one good mountain king and one for black diamond pole. The second of each got broken.

They're not great for boulder fields where I've had too many getting trapped. One time I somehow got both poles trapped in a gap between boulders resulting in them acting as springy catapult sending me backwards in a kind of somersault onto my behind! Once trekking poles were considered great for all terrains if you read outdoor group tests in magazines, but now the recommendation is that on certain terrains you're better putting them away.

 

[Nice65]

Reading all this pro and anti, you’d wonder where the idea of a walking stick as an aid came from? It must have been when aluminium or carbon fibre was first invented, before the first shepherds and mountain dwellers discovered wood sticks to help with load carrying, balance, and structural use.

The original post was a simple, specific, and well worded ask.

Hi All,

Was thinking of getting a pair of trekking poles, mainly for propping up a tarp for shelters, camping and a little hiking.

I usually travel on Motorcycle so something which doesn't take up too much space would be good.

Anybody have any recommendations on foldable vs telescopic and preference materials wise?

 

[Minotaur]

I think it might have been mentioned already, but for a tarp or tent that requires a pole, you can often get a walking pole- like pole to do the job instead. Many companies who do these types of tents offer these and they may be cheaper/lighter than a walking pole if you don't want one. Or if you don't like the idea of not being able to use the poles for walking while you're shelter is up.

That is the original poster's plan.

Reading all this pro and anti, you’d wonder where the idea of a walking stick as an aid came from? It must have been when aluminium or carbon fibre was first invented, before the first shepherds and mountain dwellers discovered wood sticks to help with load carrying, balance, and structural use.

LOL I think if Born To Run is even slightly right it must have been with the invention of the spear as it in your hand anyway. That was what made me wonder about the Roman Soldiers as they carried 3 or 4 at a time.

 

[Minotaur]

Did 9 miles yesterday with poles and very positive. Much faster recovery than normal I think.
At one point would have tripped however the extra contact points seemed to stop that.

 

[C_Claycomb]

A couple of weeks ago I was in the Lake District. The first day saw me hiking around the northern side of Great Langdale, from Stickle Ghyll and Stickle Tarn round to Angle Tarn. The plan was to carry on around the west and south side, but the wind was getting up to over 40mph (other walkers forced back from an attempt on Scafell thought 50-60mph) and Bow Fell and the rest of the route became crowned with cloud and rain. Anyway, I used my trusty hazel thumb stick, a hefty staff with a rubber foot.

I was very grateful for my stick which was a great help on some of the paths. As I climbed this one, I thought of comments here about how "absolutely useless" sticks are and thought it possible that our ideas of trails/paths and where sticks are useful might not be the same, so took some photos to illustrate.


After which, the path shook itself, vanished, then did some more up,
followed by some down before really reappearing.

Sure, I saw plenty of people walking without sticks, and most were going really slowly. So much so that one group of four who had a good 400 metre head start on me at Angle Tarn, were caught up and passed before they made it another 400 as we descended Rossett Gill

 

[Minotaur]

I have noticed something odd. I seem to have moved my aches during walking from my knees or outer hips by using poles to my inner hips. Think there must be more of a twisting motion going on or something.
Still seem to have faster recovery though.