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No, it´s not. One end is pointier than the other.Trekking Poles
- Thread starter Wushuplayer
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No, it´s not. One end is pointier than the other.A dual fuel stove which folds flat or into itself and means we in the UK can burn wood a lot of the time is a fashion item?
How do you restart a fire from embers? 40 years ago and it was much older then hanging next to my Scout Master's fire was a set of bellows. He taught us to use a 5 gallon bucket lid in the wild however a pipe makes a lot more sense as it replicates what people used in their homes.
This is literally anti-bushcraft thinking. What did the people who had to do it every day do and lets copy them i.e. bushcraft.
Explanations are no good. Show me the peer reviewed scientific evidence that it will make my hike faster or safer.
I have my doubts about faster but during the elk season it might save your life.
Apparently elks kick with their front legs forward and they are scary fast runners, a big tree might be your best bet. Unless you habitually carry a really stout elk spear as a walking stick.
I don't want to derail the thread. But if open fire is dangerous it's also dangerous in a folding stove or old tin.
Otherwise one can make the fire on the ground and put the pot on two sticks or three stones or hang it over the fire, using a tripod or a wooden fork how it was always done.
It works far better than anything else, so far you are able to make a good fire.
And you can blow into it without an antenna.
These skills one can't sell in shops and via the internet of course. But I assure you that they are very light and cheap.
It's amazing which unneeded stuff the outdoor industry developed in the last decades.
Well, for some it may have a good reason to use, but surely not for the vast majority.
"The more you know, the less you carry."
Mors Kochanski
Otherwise one can make the fire on the ground and put the pot on two sticks or three stones or hang it over the fire, using a tripod or a wooden fork how it was always done.
It works far better than anything else, so far you are able to make a good fire.
And you can blow into it without an antenna.
These skills one can't sell in shops and via the internet of course. But I assure you that they are very light and cheap.
It's amazing which unneeded stuff the outdoor industry developed in the last decades.
Well, for some it may have a good reason to use, but surely not for the vast majority.
"The more you know, the less you carry."
Mors Kochanski
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We are slightly off from trekking poles but: I don't see lighting small fires a problem if it is done in a safe way and without leaving too many marks. A small twig fire on gravel and pot hanging from a pole is not going to cause much problems. Too many forest fires have been caused by people not caring or not knowing how to light a safe fire and I am not certain the various metal contraptions to ease the burning are going to help all that much, emptying the embers on a burning material is still dangerous.
(A lot of pots he had.)
(A lot of pots he had.
)@C_Claycomb
I assume that these videos were made when he was captured by Them and he was forced to say that.
I assume that these videos were made when he was captured by Them and he was forced to say that.
There's many a pennine moorland fire from an open fire or disposable bbq on the ground. Not much gravel on moorland in UK to safely have ground based fires. Mind you stoves of various kinds can damage the ground too. That's why a lot of wildcampers who know what they're doing carry a soldering mat for under stoves. A sub 100g mat is good for gas, meths and wood stoves. I don't see why you'd not carry one in case.
I think it's sometimes difficult for people with experience from one or several areas with their unique conditions to understand the requirements from another area they have no experience of. I recall the lightweight re-emergence of a decade or more ago when the us lightweight tent brands rushed to the UK market with their existing range of tents designed for the American market. My friend got one and it simply didn't work. She had to use a bivvy bag inside it to stay dry. The high flysheet with mesh inners simply meant the rain went straight into the bathtub groundsheet. They didn't know about horizontal rain! They later sold uk spec versions with at least solid inner to halfway up the tent. I think the fire vs wood stove argument has elements of this difference.
I think it's sometimes difficult for people with experience from one or several areas with their unique conditions to understand the requirements from another area they have no experience of. I recall the lightweight re-emergence of a decade or more ago when the us lightweight tent brands rushed to the UK market with their existing range of tents designed for the American market. My friend got one and it simply didn't work. She had to use a bivvy bag inside it to stay dry. The high flysheet with mesh inners simply meant the rain went straight into the bathtub groundsheet. They didn't know about horizontal rain! They later sold uk spec versions with at least solid inner to halfway up the tent. I think the fire vs wood stove argument has elements of this difference.
As to trekki6gbng poles I've had periods of using them. I got into backpacking and challenge walks. They do encourage faster movement. The feeling of running with poles was exhilarating when I first did it. A few mates did a few munroe late autumn. Two of us peeled off for the last one before catching the others up. We ran to catch them. I had two poles and was quicker even though my poleless friend was fitter. Running along the narrow, eroded path the shortened poles on the higher, un-eroded sides as it twisted down and around.
There's very light poles too. Ones that fold to 30cm but fold out for even 2m tall people with the weight to go with it!
Mountainking were a good, British pole maker if they're still around. Twistlock can be dodgy if on a cheap pole, in that case get flicklock. Cheap isn't always worth the hassle.
Trekking poles vs tarp poles? Aiui tarp poles need to be bigger diameter than tent poles and if they have much adjustment can be a heavy or heavier than some trekking poles. So IMHO I'd rather use trekking poles of the same weight just in case their other function is needed. There's been many a time I've had to lower my tarp profile to keep it from blowing away in the fells.
As to third point of contact I say use two poles to walk with or none. There's been research into it and that's the conclusion of experts I've read on the matter. One sets you up for a biomechanical imbalance, two doesn't and none doesn't.
I got them in the early days of going lightweight before my pack weight dropped low enough for n my liking. That was in my walking, strengthening period when I was strengthening my feet in increasingly lighter footwear and getting more hill fit too. My balance in rough terrain was improving too so poles were still needed. Then my balance, speed, agility and fitness meant poles were then only needed for tarps. So that's when I carried them. Actual walking in the fells I rare found they were needed for walking. If you've ever seen a good lakeland fell runner descend a very steep, boulder strewn drop, virtually climbing territory you'll know how good agility looks like. I thought I was good until I saw what looked like a 60 plus year old run up red screen, around a few tops and back down before I'd reached the top when I thought I was a quick walker. He descended in a few minutes maybe 5 tops. Jumping a metre out to, land on the next large boulder a couple of metres below with each step.
There's very light poles too. Ones that fold to 30cm but fold out for even 2m tall people with the weight to go with it!
Mountainking were a good, British pole maker if they're still around. Twistlock can be dodgy if on a cheap pole, in that case get flicklock. Cheap isn't always worth the hassle.
Trekking poles vs tarp poles? Aiui tarp poles need to be bigger diameter than tent poles and if they have much adjustment can be a heavy or heavier than some trekking poles. So IMHO I'd rather use trekking poles of the same weight just in case their other function is needed. There's been many a time I've had to lower my tarp profile to keep it from blowing away in the fells.
As to third point of contact I say use two poles to walk with or none. There's been research into it and that's the conclusion of experts I've read on the matter. One sets you up for a biomechanical imbalance, two doesn't and none doesn't.
I got them in the early days of going lightweight before my pack weight dropped low enough for n my liking. That was in my walking, strengthening period when I was strengthening my feet in increasingly lighter footwear and getting more hill fit too. My balance in rough terrain was improving too so poles were still needed. Then my balance, speed, agility and fitness meant poles were then only needed for tarps. So that's when I carried them. Actual walking in the fells I rare found they were needed for walking. If you've ever seen a good lakeland fell runner descend a very steep, boulder strewn drop, virtually climbing territory you'll know how good agility looks like. I thought I was good until I saw what looked like a 60 plus year old run up red screen, around a few tops and back down before I'd reached the top when I thought I was a quick walker. He descended in a few minutes maybe 5 tops. Jumping a metre out to, land on the next large boulder a couple of metres below with each step.
Except it is less sparky and campsites see it as a bbq rather than me committing arson.
I have heard a lot of hikers getting asked not to use meths last year so an open fire would have been really un-welcome.
Like restarting a fire in the morning using blown air.
Except everything you are arguing against is not a new invention including poles which are an adaption of Nordic skiing poles and/or hiking staffs so 200 years-ish. The hobo stove is at least as old as the train. Blowing air into a fire is at least 5th century BC.
Yeah as I said above a lot of people mentioned the thing about being asked not to use meths or any sort of open flame.
Yeah that is why I like the Three Points Of The Compass blog. He is lightweight and UK based. I know people do it however I cannot work out how you would cold soak in the UK.
The big thing against poles for me is stiles however those 2 extra points of contact do seem to make moving around bad ground easier. I own them(2 sets), and have watched the video just need to use them.
This is the video I liked about pole use.
Have we got a Roman expert on the forum? A thought I had last night was I wonder if Roman soldiers used 2 poles? They would have had carried more than 2 poles so I wonder if that is how they managed a speed of 40 miles a day.
If alcohol burner is open flame then a gas burner is also one. What is left, catalytic heaters?
During fire season in New Zealand I heard that they prohibit solid and liquid fuel stoves. On the basis that burning fuel could be spilled if the stove is overturned. A gas canister has an off valve, which a Trangia or hobo do not. In my experience a gas stove is much less likely to cook the ground than a Coke can meths stove.
I quite agree there but overturning a trangia is more difficult than kicking a gas stove over. Matter of taking care whatever form of open flame is used.
Sounds really like they just had to prohibit something, the std bureucratic reaction.
What about a gas burner in a trangia? Best of gas with best of transit.
BTW I have used various meths stoves and only caldera cone and trangia with meths burner were more stable than remote can stoves or can top stove with stabilisation feet or the lightweight option of two heel impressions in the ground to create a circular depression the size of a canister that acts to stabilisation the stove.
I also once owned the honey stove which was very stable. Although it scorched the vegetation and soil when burning hot. I've also burnt the vegetation with meths spilt when topping up meths burners. I've knocked over plenty of meths stoves from the excellent burning but very, very unstable white box stove to the vargo triad stove, even caldera and trangia too in rather unusual clumsiness instances.
Personally I went off meths stoves because of the spilt, burning meths and the slow boil times. I started to carry the solders mat because of spilt meths and found it to be great for all stoves. Before that I used a double layers of foil cut from cheap foil baking trays or roasting trays. Whatever stove you use I think the mat is a very sensible thing to use.
BTW I have used various meths stoves and only caldera cone and trangia with meths burner were more stable than remote can stoves or can top stove with stabilisation feet or the lightweight option of two heel impressions in the ground to create a circular depression the size of a canister that acts to stabilisation the stove.
I also once owned the honey stove which was very stable. Although it scorched the vegetation and soil when burning hot. I've also burnt the vegetation with meths spilt when topping up meths burners. I've knocked over plenty of meths stoves from the excellent burning but very, very unstable white box stove to the vargo triad stove, even caldera and trangia too in rather unusual clumsiness instances.
Personally I went off meths stoves because of the spilt, burning meths and the slow boil times. I started to carry the solders mat because of spilt meths and found it to be great for all stoves. Before that I used a double layers of foil cut from cheap foil baking trays or roasting trays. Whatever stove you use I think the mat is a very sensible thing to use.
Actually Paul B is on the money, it not the stove itself so much as the owners spilling the fuel and a lot of people who never played with Ethanol in a chemistry lab at school or no flaming sambuca drinkers.
Meths burners are just so easy to make/use and as a primary or back up stove they just work. I think it is 8 minutes for a brew so how much faster is a gas stove?
8 minutes? I took 50 minutes and still no burn with a trangua once. Cold weather and borrowed stove. There's so many factors involved with burning fuel stoves that you simply cannot say a time to boil without clarifying the details. Air temperature, fuel temperature, starting water temperature are just a few things that can make your 8 minutes completely wrong.
ime it's nearer 10 to 15 minutes and in similar conditions I've had very simple can top stoves take 5 minutes. My trangia gas burner takes about 8 minutes this past week at about 5 or 6 degrees air temp and cold water from an outside tap using a low temperature gas such as an iso butane, propane, butane tri mix gas that supposedly gives better lower temperature performance.
If you're interested there's catalytic stoves such as the very, very efficient MSR ones. They are the most fuel efficient gas stoves according to independent testing. Not sure if they'll burn the groundad much as naked flame stoves but they're a very good stove if you have the money free for its high price.
ime it's nearer 10 to 15 minutes and in similar conditions I've had very simple can top stoves take 5 minutes. My trangia gas burner takes about 8 minutes this past week at about 5 or 6 degrees air temp and cold water from an outside tap using a low temperature gas such as an iso butane, propane, butane tri mix gas that supposedly gives better lower temperature performance.
If you're interested there's catalytic stoves such as the very, very efficient MSR ones. They are the most fuel efficient gas stoves according to independent testing. Not sure if they'll burn the groundad much as naked flame stoves but they're a very good stove if you have the money free for its high price.
I am not against blowing into the coals.
I just wouldn't use an antenna to do it.
I recently called a few French Camping grounds and asked about meth burners.
In dry and often windy areas they only allow gas, nothing else.
Another option is bread, cheese and salami or jam. If you would have to carry your water over longer distances it's often the better choice.
The Roman army wasn't especially fast. The Prussian army also counted with 60 kilometres per day. And Roman legionaries did usually carry less than the Prussian soldiers. The Romans didn't schlep around their stuff, most of it was usually brought behind them in cars.
On the march they were very light armed.
In flat country you can walk with a load of approximately 15 kg easily 6 km/hour. You just have to continue that for 10 hours and have your 60 km together. Usually you have to add 2 hours of intermissions. I did that with 14 years old boy scouts in the Easter holydays what means, they were sporty young men, but so early in the year not yet especially trained. And we also walked with complete luggage on a technical equipment level of WW2 65 or more kilometres in moderate hills, Alsace for example. If you are used to walk it isn't that much. Before the pandemia I walked nearly every day for 10 hours due to my job. Doesn't matter if +45 or -20°C or something in between. I don't carry so much luggage, but anyway. I am 51 now, no selected and professional young soldier.
It simply depends on if you are used to walk, that's all. Of course that's much for someone who spends most of his days at a writing desk and doesn't get regularly out for hiking. And we also want to stop and sit around from time to time of course if we do that as a recreational hobby. 25 or 30 kilometres are also long enough to see something. That's nowadays my usual hiking distance. But when we were young we were of course also interested to learn which distances are possible.
It's nothing special about that. Others go by bike all the day or spend the time on a soccer field. Teenagers simply run around.
I just wouldn't use an antenna to do it.
I recently called a few French Camping grounds and asked about meth burners.
In dry and often windy areas they only allow gas, nothing else.
Another option is bread, cheese and salami or jam. If you would have to carry your water over longer distances it's often the better choice.
The Roman army wasn't especially fast. The Prussian army also counted with 60 kilometres per day. And Roman legionaries did usually carry less than the Prussian soldiers. The Romans didn't schlep around their stuff, most of it was usually brought behind them in cars.
On the march they were very light armed.
In flat country you can walk with a load of approximately 15 kg easily 6 km/hour. You just have to continue that for 10 hours and have your 60 km together. Usually you have to add 2 hours of intermissions. I did that with 14 years old boy scouts in the Easter holydays what means, they were sporty young men, but so early in the year not yet especially trained. And we also walked with complete luggage on a technical equipment level of WW2 65 or more kilometres in moderate hills, Alsace for example. If you are used to walk it isn't that much. Before the pandemia I walked nearly every day for 10 hours due to my job. Doesn't matter if +45 or -20°C or something in between. I don't carry so much luggage, but anyway. I am 51 now, no selected and professional young soldier.
It simply depends on if you are used to walk, that's all. Of course that's much for someone who spends most of his days at a writing desk and doesn't get regularly out for hiking. And we also want to stop and sit around from time to time of course if we do that as a recreational hobby. 25 or 30 kilometres are also long enough to see something. That's nowadays my usual hiking distance. But when we were young we were of course also interested to learn which distances are possible.
It's nothing special about that. Others go by bike all the day or spend the time on a soccer field. Teenagers simply run around.
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