Why pack even a traditional canvas tarp? Lightweight cotton tents date at least from the nineteenth century so must be thought of as traditional. But why carry anything like that at all if you are able to make or find a natural shelter? Surely the ultimate in traditional. Or just a bivvy bag which is as old as you like to go back in time, try a cloak which can be very pleasant. If able use fire more than coverings as has been done for many thousands of years. Should be a term for all these traditional ways, bushcraft?
Traditional Vs modern
- Thread starter vizsla
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I build my shelters out of natural materials most of the time but only were permision is granted. And for alot of people that isnt posible as most owners wont alow it plus alot of people like to set out at say 7 and be packed up and back for 7am so time may be a issue
I use a mix of both more often than not, in my mind trad = heavy and modern = light
If I'm backpacking I'll use the lightest gear possible with few extra luxuries, if I'm out in the woods or heading out in the canoe then I'll pack cast iron cookware, polycotton tarps, heavy canvas packs with plenty of sharps and shinies
If I'm backpacking I'll use the lightest gear possible with few extra luxuries, if I'm out in the woods or heading out in the canoe then I'll pack cast iron cookware, polycotton tarps, heavy canvas packs with plenty of sharps and shinies
I like ascetics of trad but in this region things can get harsh so the cheat of modern gear becomes attractive, especially sitting in a tent in a tornado season downpour. Between the snakes, poisonous spiders, diseased ticks and weather that can kill you i lean toward modern. I guess the hybrid of the two is the most enjoyable. I do love trad in my heart of hearts though.
I like traditional gear, it has a primitive feel to it, and reminds me of the books I've read about the pioneers. I feel closer to nature and a connection to the past. I do however prefer some of the modern gear when it comes to cutting tools. Modern materials are idea for this, however I like a traditional natural handle not synthetic and a leather sheath. My tarp and hammock are modern only because sourcing the correct fabric is difficult. I use wool blankets when I can, but do use modern sleeping bags as well although I prefer nature fillings like feathers. So in general I try to combine modern with traditional when possible.
Just my thoughts though.
Just my thoughts though.
The misconsception is that modern gear is far more superior than traditional gear, as it is always advertised as having many uses, hence saving space and weight.
But the idea of bushcraft is that you use skills you have learned to do certain jobs such as making fir with flint and other primitive methods that can be sourced from your surroundings, saving you even more weight.
I personally wrap my bedroll in my tarp (which happens to be a poncho, so doubles as waterproof clothing which also covers my gear I'm carrying on my shoulder.) I also put anything else I'm wanting to take out bushcrafting, in my bedroll and have this wrapped up, so everything is carried in one simple lump. I then double my length of paracord up a few times and tie it to each end of my bedroll and sling this on one shoulder.
I have also seen roycraft backpacks, which are simple backpacks which you can construct from your tarp or shelter to carry the rest of your gear, saving more weight.
But the idea of bushcraft is that you use skills you have learned to do certain jobs such as making fir with flint and other primitive methods that can be sourced from your surroundings, saving you even more weight.
I personally wrap my bedroll in my tarp (which happens to be a poncho, so doubles as waterproof clothing which also covers my gear I'm carrying on my shoulder.) I also put anything else I'm wanting to take out bushcrafting, in my bedroll and have this wrapped up, so everything is carried in one simple lump. I then double my length of paracord up a few times and tie it to each end of my bedroll and sling this on one shoulder.
I have also seen roycraft backpacks, which are simple backpacks which you can construct from your tarp or shelter to carry the rest of your gear, saving more weight.
Car to camp camping then the traditional stuff has appeal but you'd not want to go hiking twenty miles a day with it, this is where modern kit comes in.
Why did traditional kit go out of favour? Better designed stuff came along. While your heart may say 'go trad' your back and knees in twenty years won't agree.
Why did traditional kit go out of favour? Better designed stuff came along. While your heart may say 'go trad' your back and knees in twenty years won't agree.
I wouldn't want to go hiking twenty miles a day, period. Not sure where this idea comes from that we have to be kitted out to tab for endless miles. This isn't a hiking forum.
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I would say traditional, in that I cannot wear synthetic clothing for any great length of time, my most comfortable ruck and day sacks (after 30 years of experimentation) are canvas and frameless, I like stainless steel, cast iron and wood when it comes to cooking and eating and I admire the traditional craftsmanship of hand made essentials such as Jojo's knives and Gransfors axes...
...but...looking at life as a whole...my fishing gear is up to the minute technology (carbon fibre and synthetic waterproofing), my rifle is computer machined, my camera is digital, I have an iPhone and macbook which are indispensable to me.
I guess the wonderful thing about living in this era is the ability to choose. Look to the future - but keep the good of the past.
...but...looking at life as a whole...my fishing gear is up to the minute technology (carbon fibre and synthetic waterproofing), my rifle is computer machined, my camera is digital, I have an iPhone and macbook which are indispensable to me.
I guess the wonderful thing about living in this era is the ability to choose. Look to the future - but keep the good of the past.
Agreed, it's a Bushcraft forum which means it encompasses hiking along with a lot of other stuff... A red event jacket and a ultralight weight back pack is as much at home here as a woolen shirt and canvas + Leather.
Whats the actual definition of 'Traditional' in a Bushcraft kit sense anyhow???
I use what ever i think works best, i continue to use it until i find something i think works better.
What works best depends on what i'm doing, where i am and when.
A wool jumper would be of absolutely no use to anyone in august in Greece, like a light weight waterproof jacket i'd be no use to anyone in Scotland in February.
I take a flint and steel when i'm out camping as they're more reliable than any lighter i've come across.
But on the other hand i wear modern fabrics as in my experience doing the activities i do they work substantially better than traditional fabrics.
I don't use a wood burning stove here as i find it easier to use a meths or a gas stove, plus wood burning in Greece in the summer is a BIG no, no.
I think if you took a bronze age man and plomped him out in a field with the gear i use he's be pretty lost on what does what.
Probably the only thing je'd recognise is one of my knives, but even then it'd most likely be a folder
When i was a kid i used to like the romance of acting out the way things used to get done, i used to wear wool jumpers and smile at the itchiness thinking that's the same way someone my age would have felt hundreds of years ago.
As i've gotten older though if it came to going out wearing a wool jumper or staying in, i'd stay in.
So for me, i have absolutely no loyalty to any era or time, i don't care if my jacket was made in Sweden by elves or China by a machine, all i care about is if it does the job i want it to do.
What works best depends on what i'm doing, where i am and when.
A wool jumper would be of absolutely no use to anyone in august in Greece, like a light weight waterproof jacket i'd be no use to anyone in Scotland in February.
I take a flint and steel when i'm out camping as they're more reliable than any lighter i've come across.
But on the other hand i wear modern fabrics as in my experience doing the activities i do they work substantially better than traditional fabrics.
I don't use a wood burning stove here as i find it easier to use a meths or a gas stove, plus wood burning in Greece in the summer is a BIG no, no.
I think if you took a bronze age man and plomped him out in a field with the gear i use he's be pretty lost on what does what.
Probably the only thing je'd recognise is one of my knives, but even then it'd most likely be a folder
When i was a kid i used to like the romance of acting out the way things used to get done, i used to wear wool jumpers and smile at the itchiness thinking that's the same way someone my age would have felt hundreds of years ago.
As i've gotten older though if it came to going out wearing a wool jumper or staying in, i'd stay in.
So for me, i have absolutely no loyalty to any era or time, i don't care if my jacket was made in Sweden by elves or China by a machine, all i care about is if it does the job i want it to do.
You might not, others may, this is an outdoors forum; soldiers TAB, hikers hike. Going for ten or twenty miles a day on foot as part of their travels is not uncommon for many outdoor folk, they can because they are not humping 50lb packs on their backs
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I don't know, I've walked longer distances just to get a bit of peace for a few days. Traditional doesn't always mean heavy, as long as I'm not packing a Dutch oven or my axe collection then I can usually keep the weight way down. However if I'm on a really long walk then its modern all the way.
The mornings can be chilly.
i think and don't quote me traditional in a bushcraft kit sense is canvas, leather and wool over goretex, cordura and fleece
As for hiking i don't do much of that but i can amble quite happily with traditional materials quite happily but then i never cover much more than an hours walk at a time.
were i to do something a bit more demanding (highly doubtful if i am honest with myself) i would use much more modern/lightweight kit.
but then i probably wouldn't take much of the sterotypical 'bushcraft' kit like axe, knife/knives other than a pocket knife, saw, crook knife and so on and so on
Maybe ,
Wikipedia gives a good definition of Tradition as:
A Tradition is a ritual, belief or object passed down within a society, still maintained in the present, with origins in the past
I wonder given that the current Bushcraft movement in the UK is circa 10-12 years old for the most part. The 'traditions' of using say canvas packs etc are really adopted traditions... So say a pair of original KSB boots or a early Berghaus Crusader Rucksack which are both British innovations and exemplars in the context of their period. Could just as easily be adopted as being traditional in fact they're more authentic in some ways than a modern reproduction of a classic canvas pack style that harks from a different culture and society.
As I said in my first post in this thread, if I was a long distance hiker then I would use lighter equipment. I'm not, so there's no need for me to use flimsy lightweight stuff that won't last very long.
Without being argumentative I'm just trying to answer the common reply whenever the subject of traditional gear crops up, which is that it's too heavy. It's only too heavy if you're walking long distance day after day. That doesn't sound like fun to me regardless of the equipment I'm using and I doubt if I'd fit much actual bushcraft into the trip if I'm spending all that time walking. Yes hiking can be a part of bushcraft but only in the sense that so can canoeing or dog sledding. It's the mode of transportation to get you somewhere away from modern life. Tabbing, hiking whatever you want to call it, it's just walking and you wont find a chapter in a bushcraft book on how to walk
My point is, you don't have to walk long distances to be a bushcrafter. And so the argument that an item of kit is unsuitable because it's heavy isnt a valid one on a bushcraft forum. It would be valid on a hiking forum
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Without being argumentative
I'm just trying to answer the common reply whenever the subject of traditional gear crops up, which is that it's too heavy. It's only too heavy if you're walking long distance day after day. That doesn't sound like fun to me regardless of the equipment I'm using and I doubt if I'd fit much actual bushcraft into the trip if I'm spending all that time walking. Yes hiking can be a part of bushcraft but only in the sense that so can canoeing or dog sledding. It's the mode of transportation to get you somewhere away from modern life. Tabbing, hiking whatever you want to call it, it's just walking and you wont find a chapter in a bushcraft book on how to walk My point is, you don't have to walk long distances to be a bushcrafter. And so the argument that an item of kit is unsuitable because it's heavy isnt a valid one on a bushcraft forum. It would be valid on a hiking forum
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you wont find a chapter in a bushcraft book on how to walk
QUOTE]
In Kepharts book there is a chapter on how to walk
But overall I agree with your points
In my youth and middle age I did a lot of long distance walking - up to 100km in a single trip - and lead many expeds. I tended to go as lightweight as comfort allowed and that meant "modern" kit.
However, stuff that was then cutting edge (original KSBs, frame packs like the Karrimor Jaguar S, Neoprene proofed nylon cags, cotton tents) would now apear "Traditional" and very heavyweight!
It is all relative
I like the look of canvas and leather kit and for the distances I now walk they are fine to carry .. but I also like the performance of my nylon tarp and paracord lashings.
If I want to get right back to basics I will get out my flintknapping tools, if I want to get modern I will use some of my supra modern gear that I get for review
[video=youtube_share;gRdfX7ut8gw]http://youtu.be/gRdfX7ut8gw[/video]
That nails it in my opinion..
No arguments there.
Crux AK50 rucksack, weighs less than one kilo, pictured in central Turkey, distance traveled on my back at time picture was taken, 3800 miles(ish).
