Traditional Vs modern

charliefoxtrot

Full Member
Sep 9, 2011
177
0
North Lancs, UK.
Sorry to troll, but I just came across this thread, and it's something I care about.

For me, the important distinction is between equipment that's made using materials largely derived from petrochemicals, in far-eastern sweatshops, and transported halfway round the world, eg. most contemporary gear, and that which is made using materials of renewable origin (cotton, leather etc.) by more local makers. Its about impact on the planet and ethics.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Ok I think that's four (someone will say 3) people to correct me on that point so well done. I stand corrected.

My main point (again) is that the argument that traditional gear is too heavy to be practical is not a valid one. It's only an issue if you're walking miles and miles day after day. In that case we're not talking about suitability for bushcraft purposes but rather suitability for hiking purposes. And then there is the issue of durability. Generally, modern gear of comparable durability to canvas stuff such as Kifaru is a similar weight to traditional stuff. I'm not saying traditional is better or vice versa, it's just whatever you prefer. Each to their own.




Sent from my phone.

Agree there is no right or wrong, just what each person prefers.

For me personally though the weight is only a small part of it, even if i'm car camping with the kids i tend to take mainly modern kit simply because i've found it works better.

As an example take a modern down filled sleeping bag.
It's light, packs small and is warmer than a toast in a furnace dumped in a volcano in hell.

I've slept with wool blankets outdoors and they were miserable itchy and drafty nights in comparison.

I guess being traditional is a matter of opinion, but ventile is another material that seems popular with the re-enactment type bushcrafters, again i've spent many many a miserable hour sweating buckets in wetted out ventile.


So for me i don't care when a product was designed, where it was manufactured, when it was designed i don't even really care what colour it is, all i want is for it to work better than anything else i've tried.


*Edited to add
I am looking for some wool blankets for the car, as they're cheap, still retain some heat when damp and are easy(ish) to wash.
So i'm not adverse to older tech for certain solutions.


Well the obvious gain of somebody else carrying the gear. But more realisticly it's mainly the nostalgia rather than any practical reason.

Does nostalgia really exist though?

Our summer house is in a small village that has around 30 year round inhabitants, most of those have been there for generations and when i first went in 1999 one old lady there was not yet on the mains power.
In the summer though the folks that have flown the nest return to play at being village folk.

Last easter it was a bit nippy and the guy next door (a guy that NEVER gets his hands dirty when back in Athens but suddenly gets overtaken by romance and nostalgia when returning to the village) decided to use his grandads ancient axe to chop some wood.

Now the vast vast majority of year rounders have wood burners in their house, so wood chopping is pretty much a daily occurrence, so i thought it a bit odd that the axe he was using was rusted up with a dirty (unused dirt) handle.
My suspicions were raised even more when i sat next to his grandad and mates and they were giggling away like school girls.

Turns out the have a automatic foot operated wood chopper and they were all laughing at the guy and taking the mickey because they thought it was funny that anyone would want to go back and do things the hard way.

I think if it were possible to zap back in time and bring someone back from say 100 and 200 years ago to today, they'd think it very funny that folks would have a easier way to live but choose to do things the older harder way.
 
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cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Sorry to troll, but I just came across this thread, and it's something I care about.

For me, the important distinction is between equipment that's made using materials largely derived from petrochemicals, in far-eastern sweatshops, and transported halfway round the world, eg. most contemporary gear, and that which is made using materials of renewable origin (cotton, leather etc.) by more local makers. Its about impact on the planet and ethics.

As valid a reason as any and certainly not trolling.

Can't say as it's anything that affects my buying opinion though if i'm being honest.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
68
Florida
Sorry to troll, but I just came across this thread, and it's something I care about.

For me, the important distinction is between equipment that's made using materials largely derived from petrochemicals, in far-eastern sweatshops, and transported halfway round the world, eg. most contemporary gear, and that which is made using materials of renewable origin (cotton, leather etc.) by more local makers. Its about impact on the planet and ethics.

No. Not trolling at all. But perhaps a bit misinformed. The so called "traditional" kit (leather and cotton) is just as widely made in those sweatshops as any other kit (and generally of cheaper grade material) Add to that the fact that many, if not most, modern synthetics are derived from renewable corn oil.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
It always amuses me when we discuss 'traditional' v 'modern'. The truth is, mostly we are discussing modern now, and modern a few years back. If we are talking true tradition in regards to kit used over the most hundred year span, then we are talking skins and using flint tools. Mostly it's the same thing with us traditional archers. We still like our fibreglass/wood laminates versus compound bows and recurves with metal risers, but it's till modern stuff unless you go and make your own longbow out of yew. But that is still modern (1000 years-ish). I say choose the kit that works well for you and that will last and is repairable for decades to come, and you are laughing. Be it modern titanium/ rip stop/nylon or flint/tool steel or skins. Do what you want. In 100 years time, all of our modern stuff will be looked upon as traditional/vintage.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
68
Florida
Well said JD. It's mostly a matter of perspective. My own nostalgia is to a particular era that interests me (actually more than one era)
 
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mountainm

Bushcrafter through and through
Jan 12, 2011
9,990
12
Selby
www.mikemountain.co.uk
n 100 years time, all of our modern stuff will be looked upon as traditional/vintage.

My antigravity backpack will enable me to carry my pocket sized fully portable water synthesising unit and fusion generator out into the woods. Floating in my antigravity bed I will have no need for a tarp as my ion shield force field keeps heat in and rain out. Coupled with my invisi cloak I can sit back and watch the mutants slither by completely unnoticed.

That's if there will be any woods left outside the museums.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
It's mostly a matter of perspective. My own nostalgia is to a particular era that interests me (actually more than one era)

Me too. Everyone has their era of nostalgia regarding certain pieces of kit that spans more than one depending on what kit we are talking about. There are no rules.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
My antigravity backpack will enable me to carry my pocket sized fully portable water synthesising unit and fusion generator out into the woods. Floating in my antigravity bed I will have no need for a tarp as my ion shield force field keeps heat in and rain out. Coupled with my invisi cloak I can sit back and watch the mutants slither by completely unnoticed.

That's if there will be any woods left outside the museums.

Fat lot of use that will be when I point my EMP emitting traditional recurve bow firing arrows at you.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
So you're slithering with the mutants then... Figures. I was only having a brew.

Nah, It'd just be funny watching you spill your brew and hurtle towards the slime. Whatever happens in the future, I will still be amazingly childish and up for giggles.
 

RonW

Native
Nov 29, 2010
1,580
131
Dalarna Sweden
Sorry to troll, but I just came across this thread, and it's something I care about.

For me, the important distinction is between equipment that's made using materials largely derived from petrochemicals, in far-eastern sweatshops, and transported halfway round the world, eg. most contemporary gear, and that which is made using materials of renewable origin (cotton, leather etc.) by more local makers. Its about impact on the planet and ethics.

This comment struck a nerve with me. Couldn't have said it better.... really couldn't have.
Add the element of feeling to it and the picture is complete for me. Feeling good when touched, feeling a connection to the once living tissue and feeling a connection to the past, from which we try to learn.

Plus I think that love of nature and a true care about our planet and all it's living things and resources does not match using materials and gear which are addressed in the quote. To me those are 2 very different things.
It's like the sportsmen, taking the car for a 2-minute drive to buy a pack of cigarettes. It's like saying one thing and than doing the other.
 
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Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,260
464
none
It always amuses me when we discuss 'traditional' v 'modern'. The truth is, mostly we are discussing modern now, and modern a few years back. If we are talking true tradition in regards to kit used over the most hundred year span, then we are talking skins and using flint tools. Mostly it's the same thing with us traditional archers. We still like our fibreglass/wood laminates versus compound bows and recurves with metal risers, but it's till modern stuff unless you go and make your own longbow out of yew. But that is still modern (1000 years-ish). I say choose the kit that works well for you and that will last and is repairable for decades to come, and you are laughing. Be it modern titanium/ rip stop/nylon or flint/tool steel or skins. Do what you want. In 100 years time, all of our modern stuff will be looked upon as traditional/vintage.

indeed - reading kepharts work for instance is a real eye opener - he was not a traditional woodsman/traveler
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
13,011
1,638
51
Wiltshire
No, Kepharts book I find to be very modern, even though it is a hundred years old.

And yes, he was a Leatherstocking.
 

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