TRACKS: Who dunnit?

[blacktimberwolf]

bobcat skull (lynx rufus) skull...http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2628/4107412018_e0291300fb.jpg

& puma skull ...http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2640/4106647749_16ac11ff70.jpg


Let the viewers decide..


Bearing in mind that a puma skull is twice the size of a bobcat's.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

... Caracal came in as the second option, but Puma was clearly the chosen one.

Considerng that a Puma's skull is nothing like a Caracal's & that your skull is nothing like a puma's I'd say your 'specialists' have done a remarkable job.....

 

[JonathanD]

I never said the same people claimed it was either or. Three peolple have now said it was Puma, one said Caracal. From the pictures you posted above, I'd have to say Puma too.

 

[JonathanD]

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Puma it is then................. prehaps it's a new sub- species,..... a miniature cougar

 

[JonathanD]

Dentition, scale and sutures are spot on. The only thing off are the small caninines which is one of the reasons along with suture formation and thickness and development of the bone, they said it was clearly juvenile. Compared to L rufus, the dimensions of the skull itself are completely different to that picture you posted. Remember though, it is a juvenile skull so differs from adults slightly in dentition and cranial formation.

I know nothing about cats, but i've been looking at the caracal skull too, and the adult is very very like this skull. Moreso than an adult Puma that is. There just aren't any decent pics of a juvenile puma skulls out there to compare, so I can see why Caracal was a contender.

 

[mrcairney]

Well, blimey.

 

[JonathanD]

Puma it is then................. prehaps it's a new sub- species,..... a miniature cougar

As people are unwilling to commit or help in any detailed study. I doubt we'll never know 100% for sure. That is annoying and disheartening from my perspective. Unfortunately I had to tell the truth about where I found it, just in case it was an endangered species I shouldn't be in possession of.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

& what if it was a cub with milk teeth.....................................even if they don't look like milk teeth

Honestly, do you really think you could hold a puma skull between thumb & forefinger like you have done on one of the photos, even a junvinile's ?

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Dentition, scale and sutures are spot on.

Anyone can see that the skull you found & the photos you posted are so similar there can't be any room for doubt now

 

[Retired Member southey]

Cool, do ou reckon you found a kill or dump site? (animal dead on delivery)

 

[JonathanD]

Cool, do ou reckon you found a kill or dump site? (animal dead on delivery)

No idea, the bones were well dispersed. Hardly any left around the skull area apart from a couple of leg bones, loads of ribs and vertebrae.

 

[Trunks]

A Puma !...... that's stretching credulity a little too far..

And so it begins...

 

[JonathanD]

Here are some excellent reads that show the massive size difference in Puma skulls in adults let alone juveniles too. The canines also don't fully develop until they reach a two year maturity in males...

http://carnivoraforum.com/index.cgi?board=zoological&action=display&thread=9423

&...

Journal of Mammalogy © 1996 American Society of Mammalogists

[h=3]Abstract[/h]Measurements of skulls were used to determine if growth continues throughout the lifetime of a puma (Puma concolor) and if growth patterns differ between sexes. The dataset included 1,201 adult pumas and consisted of 14 cranial and 5 mandibular measurements. Ages (estimated by the amount of staining and wear of teeth) of specimens examined during our study suggested that few pumas live past ca. 9 years of age in the wild (16 of 609 adult males and 35 of 592 adult females). For both sexes, all of the characters showing no significant variation among age groups were those related to measurements of dentition, indicating that teeth reach their full-grown size by ca. 2 years of age. Growth of the cranium of pumas continues throughout most of the animal's life; males continue to grow to 7-9 years of age, and females continue to grow to 5-6 years of age.

&...

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2931/skull207.jpg


Note that the graph above shows adult Puma skull study measurements of 2 years old and above. A sub adult skull the size of mine would clearly and easily fall into the parameters of the Puma.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Let's not forget the vicinity of the prints here either.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

& what if this little blighter was inbred.......that would in part explain the small size & bad dentition......it would also pose two interesting questions; Firstly is there a breeding population, albeit closely related & secondly, is there someone breeding them & either releasing unwanted specimens (runts ?) or dumping carcasses.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

No idea, the bones were well dispersed. Hardly any left around the skull area apart from a couple of leg bones, loads of ribs and vertebrae.

Shame we don't know about the caudal vertebrae 'cause they would have been conclusive, the phalanges would have been interesting too.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Nothing to do with this but I'm sat here reading Time magazine and there's a good article on page 36 about exotic-pet ownership. Apparently it's easier to buy a lion or tiger than it is a pitbull in Ohio.

 

[nitrambur]

... Caracal came in as the second option, but Puma was clearly the chosen one.

Two good guesses there then, I better have a go on euro-millions tomorrow

 

[Taffy63]

This has been a most interesting and informative thread, I doff my imaginary cap to you all. How exciting, any plans for camera traps?