To wash or not to wash...that is the question!

[bambodoggy]

Hey All,

There's a thred been running in the DIY/Traditional crafts forum about making soap....a point has arisen that I'd like to start a new thred about...

Half the books I've read and people I've talked to insist that you must wash as often as possible and keep yourself as clean as you can while the other half say only to wash hands after the loo and before you prepare food etc and nothing else as washing messes up the balance of the natural oils in our skin.

Clearly it depends on the trip your on.... a weekends camping with your partner may require a morning wash in the stream etc or a jungle tour may need much more to keep those nasty rashes away.... but what are people on here's general consensuses? ? ?

Answers on a postcard please.... ):

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

i would say always wash if you can!

if you don't wash not only will you smell terrible, but you can develop sores ect.
like goretex, to function properly skin needs to breath.

there is a line of thinking that says your hair will wash itself after a period, but i don't beleive your skin will.

during my mountain leader training, including a 10 day excursion in wild scotland, having a wash was a luxuary, even on a cold day!
we were near a river and eventually myself and several others decided to have a proper wash(on our own) yes the water was cold, some even went fully underwater, but the feeling afterwards made up for the effort.

i have heard of people useing mud or clay to wash with, as a soap substitute, as a mild abrasive that soaks up oils.

and as for the toilet, all you need to do is look up "guardia"! you do not want to introduce feacal bacteria to the campsite! :yikes:

apart from the thought of it it can cause some major health problems! :yikes: :shock:

a brave question and thread to start! :biggthump

 

[Paganwolf]

Good hygene is a must, expecially in jungle/humid conditions, in borneo i was washing morning and night and using Mycil foot powder EVERY WHERE :shock: never had a problem, Of a weekend a good wipe down with a few wet wipes and a crusader cup full of water splashed round my face and over my head wakes me up i find, if out longer i have a wash and a shave and scrub the hamsted's in the morning to freshen up. I found some stuff in ASDA a couple of days ago i havent seen for ages that i mentioned in another thread its an antibac gel that you put a thumb nail sized dollop of in the palm of your hand and rub it well in, it then peels of (like the old white glue you used to use at school ) leaving your hands clean, it comes in a little top pocket size bottle and is great for after the loo and when preparing food, cheap as chips too.The first things i do when i get up in the mornings is clean my teeth, thats after i get a bru on of course Oh keep your finger nails as short as you can you dont wanna know what you can get living under those :yikes:

 

[Tantalus]

i dunno about washing every day, specially if the weather is cold

but a mug of hot water and a cloth should give you enough to have a quick wipe around all the important bits

soap if you have it

but if the weather is very sunny i prefer not to use soap so often

a mild red sunburn can be made a whole lot worse by soaping all the oils out your skin imho

never tried this one either , but i am told, hair stops being greasy and lank after about 4 weeks and actually sets up its own self regulating care system needing only a rinse with water occasionally

the salts in sweat can build up if the weather is hot or you are in and around the sea, washing with fresh water is pretty much a must as it starts physically burning after a while

best to wash a little and often imho than try and deal with jock itch or athletes foot in the wilds

the mildly antisceptic properties of sphagnum moss may be better used for a quick "sponge wash" than other uses suggested on this forum

Tant

 

[Paganwolf]

Jock itch :yikes:

 

[Tantalus]

i guess the name says it all

caused by lots of sweat, not enough ventilation and generally poor hygeine

you can get similar in your armpits

not exactly life threatening but not too pleasant either

Tant

 

[Paganwolf]

Hence the Mycil foot powder in Borneo matie :biggthump :rolmao: when i said every where i ment it :shock:

 

[Lunty]

Superdrug do a little bottle of clean + dry antibacterial hand gel 99p. Claims to kill germs and clean hands. I find it very hand as no water is needed. Smells good too

 

[bambodoggy]

Oh and for the washers out there do you use the good old Imperial Leather, Dove, Palm Olive etc or do you use the bio-digradable soap....be honest now boys and girls? ? ?

 

[Moonraker]

Interesting thread. It reminds me that I was going to post about something related and that is the use of natural crystal deodorants.

I had always used bog standard non perfumed underarm deodorants but my brother persuaded me to try a small piece of some natural mineral salt crystal instead during the summer hols. Personally I was pretty sceptical and not the 'crystal' type Basically it is a naturally occurring alum crystal he brought a great big lump back from Morocco (no not black sticky stuff ) which he has used for years and swears by it.

Natural crystal

Lots of products

I had read about how normal deodorants work by blocking your pores to stop sweating and thus the BO associated with it. I do not like the idea of using chemicals unless necessary or blocking up pores etc so I gave it a shot.

After only a few days I was pretty amazed. It felt a LOT more healthy, I sweated more freely which was a bonus in the hot weather but the normal BO smells were really reduced, (not that I really smell normally just that after a couple of days most people start to pong). So after 5 months I use this crystal twice a day after a quick wipe down to remove build up of body salts. If water is tight I just use the crystal slightly moistened to allow it to be applied. I use a reasonable chunk normally and a smaller bit for outdoor use. It weighs only around 20-30 gms and keep it in a small plastic zip bag.

I am sure a lot of people here know more about them than me and have more experience using them. I can say they are defintiely not just for tree huggers If you lick your finger with some on it has a slight acid taste. This kills the bacteria which cause BO but does not block the pores so you can sweat naturally. I also thought to try a wipe as a control of crotch rot and it really worked too! Given the slight acidity you don't want to get it on cuts or grazes as it stings and as with any skin product I guess you are best trying it in a small patch first.

I may well try it out on my feet next (rubbing in hands then applying) as a natural alternative to Mycil. I have seen it advertised for feet use and you can get a powdered version which you use like Mycil.

From my experience as an initial sceptic, I would say they are well suited to outdoor use or normal use everyday.It would be interesting to hear if other people use these. You can buy them in a lot of places now and they are not too expensive (you can get all kinds of prepared ones but natural ones are fine and cheaper. for example £5.35 for 60gm piece) and last a long time. Easy to carry etc.

I found some detailed info on them:

Deodorant Stones are Natural - Key Points to Remember

Alum is a natural compound in nature, is present in the water we drink, in almost all the foods we eat, and in the air we breathe. According to a study conducted at the University of Wisconsin, the average American adult diet includes between 20 to 60 milligrams of alum per day, of which 20 to 50 milligrams come from FDA-approved food additives. Another 2 to 10 milligrams come from the natural content of the foods eaten.

In its natural form, alum is the third most abundant element in nature, after oxygen and silicon. It has been part of our environment since the beginning of time and is one of the basic building blocks of our universe. It makes up almost 8% of the earth’s crust, surpassed in quantity only by oxygen at 47% and silicon at 28%. It is in soil and clays that only when processed produce metallic aluminum products.

Deodorant Stones feature physically large potassium or ammonium alum molecules and are not absorbed into the skin/blood. Water has a molecular weight of 18. A potassium alum crystal molecule has a molecular weight of 474.38. A potassium or ammonium alum crystal molecule, in solution, is hydrated 24 times and consequently has a molecular weight of 654. It is impossible through natural means to get water to permeate the skin. Witness the large number of moisturizers available at the cosmetic counter and imagine how difficult it would be for a molecule that weighs 36.3 times as much as water to permeate the skin.

The pH of the solution resulting from the topical application of potassium alum with perspiration is typically in the slightly acid range of 4 to 5.

 

[maddave]

Oh and for the washers out there do you use the good old Imperial Leather, Dove, Palm Olive etc or do you use the bio-digradable soap....be honest now boys and girls? ? ?

For me I always carry a small bar of 'hotel soap' Just enough for 2 weeks away and you can keep it wrapped in a bit of tinfoil when you're done so it doesn't mess up.

I think hygiene in the field is important and as previously stated, keeping the hands clean is a must.

The only thing I will say is don't be obsessive about it. If there's nowhere suitable to wash or water is at a premium, then a quick scrub down with a baby wipe will suffice until you can get a proper wash.

 

[arctic hobo]

I don't wash. :yikes: No really. As I said in the thread that bambodoggy mentioned, soap can open you up to the cold terribly, which can be fatal in the arctic. Your skin does look after itself, and the only attention it got from me was a weekly snow bath (there wasn't any water). Using soap and not using soap keep you equally clean, but soap is antiseptic, which means that it doesn't matter except if you have a fresh cut or feacal bacteria on you. I think Asda or someone sell an alcohol based quick handwash, which is the only product I use, and that only when I must (toilet, wounds).
Salt does build up, which necessitates that snow bath. And not washing is not unhygenic - it's a shame how things we take as basic were not practiced by cavemen, like the thread about periods, and soap?? Alum maybe, but cavemen did not die of being filthy (well not disproportionately anyway). I have never been ill from not washing - in fact if I washed (or shaved) I'd get cold and thus more prone to infection (immune system is very weak when you're cold).
And I have not noticed a bad smell at all either (and nor did other people). Also - think cavemen: if they all smelled repulsive to each other (and they must have sweated much more than us because they had to be more active) then we wouldn't have been born (I'm talking birds and bees here)

 

[Andy]

Interesting thread. It reminds me that I was going to post about something related and that is the use of natural crystal deodorants.

I hadn't thought about telling people on here about them. I always found it funny when ask "do they work?" the reply of course is "do I smell?" Don't forget that you can use these things on your feet as well.
I may just be able to get these from a wholesale shop in sheffield. I'll find out

 

[bigjackbrass]

You know, there'd be no need to do a poll on this topic. We can all just gather at the Bushcraft meetup and judge for ourselves.

I'd say wash. Maybe not all over, maybe not all the time, but you need to be aware of hygiene (it's generally agreed that more people suffer tummy troubles due to bad hygiene in the bush than through drinking bad water) and, as mentioned above, modern fabrics especially suffer badly when soiled with body oils etc. Frankly, when I'm hiking few things feel better at the end of the day than a quick wash and some foot pampering.

And then there's meeting other people. They'll appreciate the time you took with a damp flannel.

The crystal deodorants are excellent, but heavy. Luckily they last so long that only a small piece is needed to be effective. As for soap, my favourites are the increasingly hard to find Mountain Suds (also great on hair, clothes and pots 'n' pans) and the famous Dr Bronner's, which also has the advantage of giving you something to read at no additional weight. You'll know what I mean if you've ever seen the label.

 

[zen]

Hi All,

I went for years without using shampoo but still washed my hair regularly just using water. After a few weeks this works just fine. I'd hate to think of the build up of stuff you'd accumulate if you didn't use water. However, the rest of me would get washed daily where conditions permit.

On the one occasion I did go for a long time without washing properly I developed a bladder infection. This wasn't too serious medically and as I recall only lasted a week or so, but my eyes watered everytime I went :yikes:

imho (and a couple of people have already pointed to this) it's where you are that determines if you need to wash more or less. After all one of the principle reasons for washing is to stop infection, and isn't that more likely to occur in the tropics than in the Arctic?

 

[Wayne]

i would suggest for tracking and animal watching avoid washing too frequently and don't use fraganced cosmetics.

 

[tomtom]

wash in fresh water only in this cercamstance.. you dont want to be smelling to strongly of human :yikes: (aka B.O.)

 

[leon-1]

The situation dictates.

In the arctic or areas of extreme cold exposing your skin to the elements after having washed can aid the effect of windburn and cracking of the skin, however the human body still has to work hard in extreme cold and as a result you can and will sweat a lot, so it is advisable to spend some time looking after the more susceptible areas of the body (groin and armpits) when you are in cover, if only to stop the build up of ammonia against the skin, which also means that changing clothing in these areas of the body, ensuring it is clean will keep you reasonably free of the likes of "crotch rot".

Obviously places that are very hot and humid (The Jungle) you perspire a considerable amount and when you are not perspiring you are being rained on, PW mentioned powdering parts of the body in the jungle this is very much a neccessity, but you are better of not using a talc based product as talc can block pores in your skin. Soap is also a bit controversial as well in jungle areas, some types of soap can also block pores (if you have ever spent time with someone with prickly heat you will know what I mean), but I would say that the requirement to wash is very much there in this environment as it is also the perfect breeding ground for bacteria.

Temperate locations, like the UK if you are quite active it would be advisable to wash at least every 2-3 days, but obviously pay attention to hygiene as far as your hands are concerned whenever neccesary.

Time was also a factor in the original question, long term you will wash, but as important you will also have to ensure that you maintain reasonably clean clothing. Your clothing performs better when clean and some of the excretions of the human body if allowed to build up in cloth also have an effect on the skin, they will also start to rot the cloth as well as being unsanitary in general.

I think common sense should tell you if you need to wash or not (and if that doesn't, if you are out with someone else they probably will), soap is not always required for keeping clean, but is a good anti-septic for small cuts or grazes. ):

 

[Great Pebble]

Wash.... definately, whole body every other day if possible, important bits and face & hands several times a day, keep the hair good and clean too.

I also usually have that gel stuff or some wet wipes around for when a wash isn't possible/practical. I'm actually cleaner in the woods than in everyday life. Mind you, I also get dirtier.

For soap, I'd recommend that Pears stuff, comes in an orangey, oval semi-transparent bar. Supposed to be good for your skin and that. Which I'm sure is very nice, but in my book it's main plus is that you can put it away wet and it doesn't turn to mush.

 

[R-Bowskill]

It seems that the midge is attracted to the smell of humans, so if you're where they are a problem washing is definately a good idea!!!