Tips on Dog Training.

[Dave]

Any got any tips on dog training?

[It looks like we'll be getting an 8 week old chocolate lab.
Sire comes from a gun dog background, Drakeshead in Lancashire, KC registered, good hip test [3/3], eye test. No elbow test that I know of.
Dont know much about bitch yet.]

What are the basics I need to begin with? Whats the best way to train him?

He'll be a family pet, [and I want him to be a bit of a free spirit] but I also want to take him out with me, when I go fishing, canoeing, camping, etc.....

So I need him to be obedient.

If he sees sheep/cows riverside, when Im fishing, I dont want him running after them. I want him out of the water, riverside, quiet, behaved.

Does anyone take their dog/retriever, air rifle hunting/bunnying?

Thanks.

 

[Niels]

Very nice that you'll be having a new friend!
This is something I've read loads about, so if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

For starters:

Find his currency This means, what he likes best. Is it his ball, a cookie, petting him on the head and saying ''good boy''.
When it goes wrong: Don't hit him, don't kick! him for obvious reasons. Work preferably with rewards.

Also, very important, crucial even: you must, from day 1, whenever his head passes your knee, while walking on lead, turn back until he looks at you. Some people say to just stand still but this is time consuming and doesn't work with every dog. This is to prevent pulling on the lead and to prevent having to use a choke chain, which is imo a useless way of being agressive to your friend.

Now, there are 2 solutions for unwanted behaviour.

1=ignoring, this only works when his goal is to get your atttention, such as barking or squeaking.
2=spooking him, by throwing a tin full of coins his way, or what I used to do a lot is blow on a duck lure really loud. This is for behaviour that is self rewarding, such as stealing stuff, scratching the carpet.

If you make him get used to sheep and cows as a pup, and reward him for staying with you, you shouldn't have any problems. It would be benificial if you introduce a ''clicker'' to him, early on. This helps him to learn specific commands, more than any choke chain ever would. You don't have to use a clicker, as long as you have a specific, consequent noise that indicates his currency will be given to him, so a treat, a ball, etc.

Let him of leash from day 1, and run away from him. Don't call him along, he has to learn you won't pay attention to were he's going, he's gotta pay attention to you! To give attention is to get attention.

Most important thing is to have fun, especcialy if training isn't going to well, to just enjoy the dog.
Oh and maybe buy a book or two. I'd recommend you some but there all in Dutch.
Wow, what a ramble I've made

 

[bearbait]

My experience with dogs would lead me to suggest: a) a mandatory and excellent distant recall, b) a distant stay (for the dog's safety), c) completely trustworthy with livestock both on and off the lead. Make all training fun, but in short slices with a youngster. "Repetition and Reward" is a key mantra for training animals. One I play with the dogs is to issue a stay; I then go and hide somewhere in the house and call them. They hurtle round the house to find me and do a sit for which they get a treat. Repeat 5 or 6 times. They've learnt/reinforced a stay, a recall and a sit and had a great time tearing round the house. Obviously with a youngster you don't want to hide at first - just a stay, a recall from a few feet away and a sit will be good. Some dogs respond better to toys, especially tug toys, than food treats. You'll have to judge. On the recall try teaching both voice and whistle; the whistle will penetrate further on a windy day. Be consistent towards the dog so it knows where the boundaries are. Don't feed or treat from the table. My dogs don't get their supper unless they're in their beds. It's all just gentle discipline: you (and your missis) are the alpha dog and bitch (no offence intended!) of the pack and your word is law. But do also be aware that all dogs have an intermittent fault with their hearing - I call it selective deafness.

As for house (toilet) training I've had great success with a cage; the dog doesn't view it as being "banged up". I don't have dogs on the furniture but some people do. Your decision!

You could try taking him to puppy class to socialise with other dogs - and also see how not to train your dog!

I don't hunt with my dogs so you'll need info on that from other people. (My first dog hated loud noises and would skulk off when he saw the shotty coming out.)

Enjoy your dog...but you may find when he/she dies it'll be worse than when a relly dies...

 

[Niels]

Oh by the way, if you buy a crate big enough for a full sized dog, make it smaller with a plank of wood. He'll want to keep his bed clean but if the crate is too big he will want to pee in one corner and sleep in the other.

 

[Dave]

Some good advice there Neils. Thanks. Especially like the bit about him following me, not the other way around.

I should say I've had dogs before.

And trained them to sit/stay/heel Just basic stuff.

The last one was a boxer which died 3 years ago, at 12.5 years of age.
Never had a Lab though. Anything specific I should know about Labs?
And the last time I trained a dog was 15.5 years ago, so cant remember a thing.

One thing about the boxer. Could never take him anywhere for long. Would never settle down. The distance heel is a good idea bearbait. And one which my last dog never really got the hang of.

Keep the suggestions coming. How much time would you recommend to spend training him? Half an hour a day?

 

[Niels]

Keep the suggestions coming. How much time would you recommend to spend training him? Half an hour a day?

I would say as long as you want as long as it's in 5-10 minute periods. Like bearbait said, young dogs are easily distracted and they can't concentrate for long. Try to train at fixed times too, dogs like regularity, it makes them sleep better

 

[Dogoak]

My top tip, start training from day one! Use the natural behaviour to start with some basic commands, as the puppy sits, say 'sit', as it lies down, say 'down' etc; you get the idea.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

[and I want him to be a bit of a free spirit] but I also want to take him out with me, when I go fishing, canoeing, camping, etc.....

So I need him to be obedient.

If he sees sheep/cows riverside, when Im fishing, I dont want him running after them. I want him out of the water, riverside, quiet, behaved.

Obedient !...well behaved ! ...quiet!...............where does the 'free spirit' come in then ?

 

[MartinK9]

Whatever method is used, get everyone in the household to use the same commands and train him the same way, that way Pack position is instilled from day one.

 

[santaman2000]

A lot has been covered already so I'll concentrate one something that hasn't. He's a retriever; retrieving will come naturally (instinctively) to him. What you'll actually need to teach him is NOT to retrieve immediately but rather wait for your comand. Otherwise he'll run off after evrything you throw (including diving into the water to try to retrieve your fishing lures) If you really want to be impressive with him, teach him that when he's on a retrieve (particularly a long distance retrieve from tall grass or other obstacles) he needs to look back when you whistle to give directions.

 

[treetop57]

My top tip, start training from day one! Use the natural behaviour to start with some basic commands, as the puppy sits, say 'sit', as it lies down, say 'down' etc; you get the idea.

great advice one more thing that i do and my lab is sat here next to me is make sure in the early days that you and only you feed and walk him and give commands and he learns the word NO my dog can walk through sheep without a second glance

 

[robin wood]

Read "think dog" by John Fisher available here for £2 delivered http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bt.x=35&bt.y=10&sts=t&tn="think+dog"
It is a great fun read full of great anecdotes but most important it makes you understand that the dog is a pack animal, your family is part of the pack and there are rules to pack life. Treat it like a dog not a human and everyone will be happy and training easy.

 

[Macaroon]

One thing I really have to disagree with strongly is the above advice on "spooking" any animal by using containers full of coins, stones and the like..............vicious and cruel in my book, and in a lifetime spent with horses and dogs I've never known it to work - in the same way that pockets full of "treats" don't work.............any training method involving bribery ( for want of a better word ) is at best short term; you need to think like a canine and use the same positive re-enforcement / negative re-enforcement that the bitch would use; this is the only way to ensure the psychological health and comfort of the animal, and when you achieve that you have a true friend for life that will obey you and know it's place in the pack because that's what makes it safe and secure............the good news is that this is mostly what dogs want to do anyway..................
By the way, good luck keeping a Lab out of the water! The whole dog training thing is one of the best and most satisfying things you can ever do, and you're right, you can have a well trained, obedient dog that has a big streak of independance, character and spirit about them, it just takes time and patience............get him to trust you, treat him fair, and you won't go wrong...........All the best, mac

 

[Niels]

One thing I really have to disagree with strongly is the above advice on "spooking" any animal by using containers full of coins, stones and the like..............vicious and cruel in my book, and in a lifetime spent with horses and dogs I've never known it to work - in the same way that pockets full of "treats" don't work.............any training method involving bribery ( for want of a better word ) is at best short term; you need to think like a canine and use the same positive re-enforcement / negative re-enforcement that the bitch would use; this is the only way to ensure the psychological health and comfort of the animal, and when you achieve that you have a true friend for life that will obey you and know it's place in the pack because that's what makes it safe and secure............the good news is that this is mostly what dogs want to do anyway..................
By the way, good luck keeping a Lab out of the water! The whole dog training thing is one of the best and most satisfying things you can ever do, and you're right, you can have a well trained, obedient dog that has a big streak of independance, character and spirit about them, it just takes time and patience............get him to trust you, treat him fair, and you won't go wrong...........All the best, mac

With all possible respect: Nonsense. For example: what do you suggest when a dog is sniffing a cake on the coffee table? If you shout no, or beat him up, or hurt him with a choke chain that correction comes from you. Therefore, he knows he can take food from your table if he is alone with the food. If you spray him wet with a water pistol, or spook him with loud noise (mind you, I don't throw stuff against my dog, rather next to him for the sound!) My point is, that if the dog doesn't know the spook came from you, he is much less likely to eat from the table again.

Also, there is no way a human can replicate the negative reïnforcement a bitch uses. Choking with a choke chain surpressed the airpipe, which is different from the bitches neck bite.

I don't mean to sound rude or like a know-all by the way, just sharing my opinion

 

[santaman2000]

With all possible respect: Nonsense. For example: what do you suggest when a dog is sniffing a cake on the coffee table? If you shout no, or beat him up, or hurt him with a choke chain that correction comes from you. Therefore, he knows he can take food from your table if he is alone with the food. If you spray him wet with a water pistol, or spook him with loud noise (mind you, I don't throw stuff against my dog, rather next to him for the sound!) My point is, that if the dog doesn't know the spook came from you.....

If he's too dumb to figure that out, he's to dumb to train anyway. The point of obedience training is to teach him to obey commands; NOT to teach him beahviors not to eat from the table. TBH you shouldn't leave a dog unattended with food on the table.

That said, there are techniques to train certain behaviors (or restraints) when he's left unattened. But they're ab it lengthy to go intoin this forum.

 

[santaman2000]

....Also, there is no way a human can replicate the negative reïnforcement a bitch uses. Choking with a choke chain surpressed the airpipe, which is different from the bitches neck bite......

But not greatly different from a gentle slap on the ears. At least as long as you do it GENTLY. Never BEAT your dog. There's a difference and they know it.

 

[Macaroon]

Niels, you don't sound rude at all - your opinions have a right to be heard same as all othersand that's as it should be. ...........I've made a living training driving horses for more than half a century, and have always had dogs with me as both companions and as tools to use in the training and rehabilitation of traumatised and frightened horses - they have had to be absolutely bombproof, steady as a rock in all situations and with all other animals, sometimes in very stressfull and tense situations and often in the face of potential danger to themselves, the horses and me. They've all had to be 100% reliable otherwise my business would have failed long ago' and I've managed them all without ever using threats, coercion or bribery of any sort. If you create the right bond with a dog based on trust and fairness, the ultimate sanction for the dog quickly becomes your displeasure; it will be the thing he or she will fear most and is the most valuable tool to use in training them. The trick is to teach themearly that NO!!! is the one overriding command that they must never ever ignore, this done very gently and ingrained in the dogs mind from the outset............this achieves two things - firstly it's the way to stop the dog in it's tracks and thus they learn to stop and think for themselves to some extent, so learning how to learn, if you see what I mean; secondly it acts as the signal to the dog that he/she is about to break the big rule and cause your displeasure..............

This is a huge subject, too involved for a forum such as this, but I can only tell you that it's always worked for me and for the people in my business; I have never had a serious breakdown in discipline from any of the many dogs I've worked over the years, and I can and do leave my current Springer bitch Molly in situations of temptation with food accessable, wandering possible and anything you can think of' and she will never let me down - but she's always happy, very independant and a very free spirit, just knows exactly where the boundaries are and will never transcend them. All of this has been achieved without any shock aversion stuff, no treats or clicker bribery and conditioning, without fractious words or friction of any sort - just correct bonding and trust..................Really, if you get the first few weeks right, they train 'emselves!
All the best, mac

 

[santaman2000]

.....and I can and do leave my current Springer bitch Molly in situations of temptation with food accessable, wandering possible and anything you can think of' and she will never let me down.....

I agree with most of your post. But as to this particular statement, it may work with a springer (and many breeds) but you've obviously never trained a wolf or wolf hybrid.

That said, even my wolf had the overiding trait of being more hurt by my displeasure than anything else. Just as you said elsewhere in your post. She was convinced that the only reason she existed was to be with me and please me.

 

[Dogoak]

A 'rattle bottle' with a few stones is only used as a disrupter to the unwanted behaviour, much the same as a sharp 'NO' command. These bottles are not for beginers and you shouldn't need it, only use the 'NO' command.

(I have to disagree with the idea that a disrupter method such as a rattle bottle is 'vicious and cruel' (unless it is used inappropriately). As above, they shouldn't be used unless absolutley necessary and with very careful timing).


All your family members should be involved with the training, you are all higher in the pack them him/her.

Personaly, I would never leave a choccy lab anywhere near food

 

[Niels]

If he's too dumb to figure that out, he's to dumb to train anyway. The point of obedience training is to teach him to obey commands; NOT to teach him beahviors not to eat from the table. TBH you shouldn't leave a dog unattended with food on the table.

That said, there are techniques to train certain behaviors (or restraints) when he's left unattened. But they're ab it lengthy to go intoin this forum.

But you can correct a dog without him knowing it comes from you! Leave a plastic cup of water barely standing on the edge of the table. If he tries to snif it, he'll get the spook of his life and know he's not supposed to sniff anything on the table. But you're right, let's just let Dave decide what methods he likes best. And you have a wolfdog? That's cool