The Titanic sinking conspiracy theory

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Ok, i've read it. I see your point about when and who collected the samples and also the time between sample collection and analysis.

It doesn't help the case he is trying to prove. It adds variables where it'd be better without them, for example, are the samples "as is" from the day of collection or have they been played with? Or indeed, are they from 9/11 at all ? :)

But at the same time, it doesn't make the results incorrect either. It just makes it harder to make it stand with credibility.

It hasn't changed my mind, but i will now have that slight element of doubt. :)

It still doesn't explain the other stuff pointed out though. :p

We all have our opinions, opinions that our lives are a massive contributing factor in.
As all our lives are different then it's only logical our opinions will be different.

With the 9/11 thing i agree that there are many things that were investigated wrongly, or even worse not investigated at all.
Some of that has to do with the conditions everyone was working under, as an example it's impossible to maintain a sterile crime scene with bulldozers and thousands of people trampling all over it.
It would have been a brave man/woman to suggest everyone stop looking for survivors to maintain clean evidence retrieval though.


I like many others did assume these holes in the investigation were there for a cover up.
It was only after hours of reading and going through data logically and open mindedly that i changed that assumption.

In my mind i can't fill a hole with assumptions and theory, i need something real to fill it with, all the conspiricy theories i've seen to data were that, theories.
I've not seen 1 single piece of evidence that was solid enough for me to throw out the logical explanation and bring in a massively complex and involving theory.

The other thing to factor in to WTC is the sheer size of it.
It was 1727 feet high.
There are only 9 buildings in the entire world higher

The tallest controlled demolition so far was the J.L. Hudsons Department Store in Detroit at 439 feet (which indecently came down NOTHING like the twin towers or WTC7).

[video=youtube;JP1HJoG-1Pg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP1HJoG-1Pg&feature=player_embedded[/video]


So there really are no comparisons with which to gauge.
It's the same with fires, sure other buildings have burnt for longer without collapsing, but did they have a huge jet fly flat out into them 1 hour before, nope.
Other structures have had planes fly into them (empire state building for one) and have stood, that is a completely different structure though, from the design through to the materials.


So when i see or hear someone say "of course it was a controlled demolition" it drives me crazy, as even experts that have been demolishing buildings since first wearing long trousers have seen nothing like this to gauge from, so how can a shoe salesman be so sure?


As i say, i've gone though and continue to go through the evidence, i've seen enough evidence to convince this very cynical mind that there was no controlled demolition.
If you have an open mind and really want to weight up the whole story then i'm more than happy to search and find that, you need to be specific though.

Plus if you unearth anything that changes my mind then i'm man enough to stand and be counted and admit i was wrong.

Apart from the families of lost loved one i have absolutely no side in this, i think that all politicians are self serving, egotistical, sociopaths so if any evidence can be unearthed to bring down jerks like the Bush's i'm more than happy to agree.
I will not sell out my standards and weaken my opinions to bring myself down to their levels though, simple as that.



P.S.
As i have already said a good friend of mine has gone on record saying he saw a commercial airliner fly over him heading towards the pentagon.
Personally i trust his opinion 100%, so for me the Pentagon is not a discussion.
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
27
70
south wales
Nice find.

Started watching it but the quality was crap so i'm downloading now instead to watch later.

Watch it, it explains how easy it was to fly the planes into the buildings, why the buildings collapsed the way they did and why there was a nice round hole in the Pentagon...doubt it will open the eyes of many here though lol...its all too simple to be true for them:lmao:
 

Biker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Watch it, it explains how easy it was to fly the planes into the buildings, why the buildings collapsed the way they did and why there was a nice round hole in the Pentagon...doubt it will open the eyes of many here though lol...its all too simple to be true for them:lmao:

Thanks for reminding me about this video, I did honestly mean to watch it but got side tracked here and on some other stuff going on at home. I'll post my toughts about it later... assuming I'm not too simple to figure out how to hit reply

cbr6fs. Good posting man, thanks for being so open about it. I hope some of us here in this camp would like to be able to say the same. Time will tell.

Santaman and Huon. Thanks for being such top blokes and the others too. So glad we can bat a arguement back and forth and still have that respectful friendship remaining. Got to be a rare thing that on a public forum, without it descending into "tis so, tis not, tis SO!"

Right, got to get on with some real life stuff. Later chaps.
 

wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
3
Lincoln
So if the ribbed surface of the cut indicates acetylene as you suggest and thermite makes smooth cuts, then what would these be? Thermite? as the cuts are smooth

View attachment 9910

Personally, i believe these are more like acetylene cuts. Not the other one.

no molten metal on those girders thermite uses molten iron to cut its very messy leaves big drips of iron behind. thermite isn't used in demolitions its used for fixing train lines and blowing holes in armour
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,995
29
In the woods if possible.
So if the ribbed surface of the cut indicates acetylene as you suggest and thermite makes smooth cuts, then what would these be? Thermite? as the cuts are smooth

View attachment 9910

Personally, i believe these are more like acetylene cuts. Not the other one.

I don't want to get into this debate any more than I already have, but having cut a lot of steel using gas I can confirm that HillBill is right, those cuts look exactly like what I would expect gas cuts to look like.

I would think they are more likely to be oxy-propane than oxy-acetylene, but that's academic.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
no molten metal on those girders thermite uses molten iron to cut its very messy leaves big drips of iron behind. thermite isn't used in demolitions its used for fixing train lines and blowing holes in armour
Thermite has been used for the demolition of metal structures. At least one anyway as per the link i posted. I expect there will be more, maybe just no available info on the web with it being so old.

The pic of the first piling i put up does indeed have all the molten metal dribbled down the piling itself.

Also if you watch the collapse, you can see molten metal start to flow out of the wtc just below where the fires are burning, the building collapses less than a minute after this.

911wtc moltenmetal.jpgmoltenstreamthermate.jpg



Also there were pools of molten metal, still in liquid form found in the rubble after the collapse. Why was it still there? The temps it was at, were far hotter than the fire could have been which caused the collapse.

911moltensteel.jpg
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
What about all the witnesses and firemen who were on the news the day of the event, who said they had heard and seen explosions coming from the ground floors and basement? There were both civvies and firemen in the lobby when the blasts went off, both saw and heard the explosions. In fact it was even reported all over the news, proir to the collapse, that there had been numerous explosions. The building went down very soon after. Various news networks reported WT7's collapse 20 minutes before it did too.

How does your thinking factor these facts into it? :)

I watched loads of the news reports last night, and all this was at the time of the event, not afterwards. There must have been a hundered people reporting explosions prior to collapse.

Heres one such report
http://www.myspace.com/video/world-...ort-explosions-at-twin-towers-on-9-11/6708436

We all have our opinions, opinions that our lives are a massive contributing factor in.
As all our lives are different then it's only logical our opinions will be different.

With the 9/11 thing i agree that there are many things that were investigated wrongly, or even worse not investigated at all.
Some of that has to do with the conditions everyone was working under, as an example it's impossible to maintain a sterile crime scene with bulldozers and thousands of people trampling all over it.
It would have been a brave man/woman to suggest everyone stop looking for survivors to maintain clean evidence retrieval though.


I like many others did assume these holes in the investigation were there for a cover up.
It was only after hours of reading and going through data logically and open mindedly that i changed that assumption.

In my mind i can't fill a hole with assumptions and theory, i need something real to fill it with, all the conspiricy theories i've seen to data were that, theories.
I've not seen 1 single piece of evidence that was solid enough for me to throw out the logical explanation and bring in a massively complex and involving theory.

The other thing to factor in to WTC is the sheer size of it.
It was 1727 feet high.
There are only 9 buildings in the entire world higher

The tallest controlled demolition so far was the J.L. Hudsons Department Store in Detroit at 439 feet (which indecently came down NOTHING like the twin towers or WTC7).

[video=youtube;JP1HJoG-1Pg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP1HJoG-1Pg&feature=player_embedded[/video]


So there really are no comparisons with which to gauge.
It's the same with fires, sure other buildings have burnt for longer without collapsing, but did they have a huge jet fly flat out into them 1 hour before, nope.
Other structures have had planes fly into them (empire state building for one) and have stood, that is a completely different structure though, from the design through to the materials.


So when i see or hear someone say "of course it was a controlled demolition" it drives me crazy, as even experts that have been demolishing buildings since first wearing long trousers have seen nothing like this to gauge from, so how can a shoe salesman be so sure?


As i say, i've gone though and continue to go through the evidence, i've seen enough evidence to convince this very cynical mind that there was no controlled demolition.
If you have an open mind and really want to weight up the whole story then i'm more than happy to search and find that, you need to be specific though.

Plus if you unearth anything that changes my mind then i'm man enough to stand and be counted and admit i was wrong.

Apart from the families of lost loved one i have absolutely no side in this, i think that all politicians are self serving, egotistical, sociopaths so if any evidence can be unearthed to bring down jerks like the Bush's i'm more than happy to agree.
I will not sell out my standards and weaken my opinions to bring myself down to their levels though, simple as that.



P.S.
As i have already said a good friend of mine has gone on record saying he saw a commercial airliner fly over him heading towards the pentagon.
Personally i trust his opinion 100%, so for me the Pentagon is not a discussion.
 
Last edited:

Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
I mentioned before about the lifts, a lift falling from a great height might create sound and the rush of air being forced out the shaft cloud force he dust clouds, MAYBE!
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
One of the witnesses ( fireman) reports the explosions as being like gunfire, bang bang bang bang bang he said then there were 3 more big explosions then the tower fell. :)



I mentioned before about the lifts, a lift falling from a great height might create sound and the rush of air being forced out the shaft cloud force he dust clouds, MAYBE!
 

shaggystu

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2003
4,345
33
Derbyshire
been following this one with some interest, great thread.

i don't really have an opinion either way on the subject of the IRA's plot to steal shergar.......sorry, wrong conspiracy......but i do have a question regarding the WTC. we know (from youtube) that thermite is incredibly easy to make, all we need to do is mix some aluminum and some iron oxide and set fire to it. we also know that lots of aluminum was used in the construction of the WTC, as was lots of iron oxide rich paint. is it possible that under really extreme conditions e.g. an airliner crash, that all that AL and all that FeO could combine and ignite and result in all that molten/glowing metal that we keep seeing?

stuart
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
Its a possiblity definately. I was thinking last night about thermite welding. Now i dont know much about it, but i was wondering if the WTC had been welded using thermite? If so, would it possible for the heat from the fires to ignite the weld?

been following this one with some interest, great thread.

i don't really have an opinion either way on the subject of the IRA's plot to steal shergar.......sorry, wrong conspiracy......but i do have a question regarding the WTC. we know (from youtube) that thermite is incredibly easy to make, all we need to do is mix some aluminum and some iron oxide and set fire to it. we also know that lots of aluminum was used in the construction of the WTC, as was lots of iron oxide rich paint. is it possible that under really extreme conditions e.g. an airliner crash, that all that AL and all that FeO could combine and ignite and result in all that molten/glowing metal that we keep seeing?

stuart
 

shaggystu

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2003
4,345
33
Derbyshire
Its a possiblity definately. I was thinking last night about thermite welding. Now i dont know much about it, but i was wondering if the WTC had been welded using thermite? If so, would it possible for the heat from the fires to ignite the weld?

i would suggest that thermite welding is pretty much the same as any other kind of welding, i.e MIG, TIG, etc. whereby the welding operation simply melts the two welded surfaces together whilst consuming itself (gas, wire, stick etc.) in the process, the weld that remains is simply molten and cooled steel. so no, there's no chance of the weld itself igniting as the weld consists of nothing more than solid steel
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
Some lift safety braking mechanisms contain explosive charges....

The timing would be a bit coincidental though dont ya think? The explosions were described as powerful, and the firemen would be aware of any such explosives in the lift wouldn't they?
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
So why use thermite for welding then? Whats the advantage of it over the others? I've done plenty of welding with TIG and MIG welders so i'm familiar with welding in general, but know nothing of thermite welds.

i would suggest that thermite welding is pretty much the same as any other kind of welding, i.e MIG, TIG, etc. whereby the welding operation simply melts the two welded surfaces together whilst consuming itself (gas, wire, stick etc.) in the process, the weld that remains is simply molten and cooled steel. so no, there's no chance of the weld itself igniting as the weld consists of nothing more than solid steel
 

shaggystu

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2003
4,345
33
Derbyshire
The timing would be a bit coincidental though dont ya think? The explosions were described as powerful, and the firemen would be aware of any such explosives in the lift wouldn't they?

explosives going bang when in close proximity to a massive amount of burning airliner/skyscraper, coincidence? i wouldn't have thought so really, seems like an ideal set of circumstance for them to explode to me
 

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